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Haplogroup J2(b2) and Romans.
The small hotspot in North West Europe on the left in the J2b2 map seems to be situated around the now French town of Bologne-Sur-Mer, in Roman times known as Gesoriacum, the port Portus Itius was believed to be situated there. The bigger hotspot on the right seems to have its center between the river Meuse and the Rhine. This area was heavily Romanized with dozens of fortresses and/or towns (many are not shown on this map), most notably the Dutch city of Nijmegen (In Roman times called Noviomagus), the German city of Koln in Roman times know as Colonia Agrippina (which was the largest Roman city north of the Alps), the Belgian town of Tongeren in Roman times called Atuatuca, the modern German city of Xanten with its fortress Castra Vetera and the modern German City of Neuss in Roman times called Novaesium. The last 2 seems to be right in the center of the J2b2 Hotspot.
J2a members with Xanten derived surnames like Santen are also reported in these areas. While most agree that the name of the city is derived from an executed Roman soldier from the Theban legion who later became a saint, there are those who connect its name to the river god Scamandros/Xanthos who dwelled near the river Scamander in the vicinity of Troy. There is also a river named Xanthus in Anatolia.
All major Roman settlements north of Mainz (Britain excluded) are located in the 2 J2b2 areas. Many Roman legions were stationed in this area over the years, for instance; Legio V Alaudae, Legio XX Valeria Victrix, Legio X Gemina, Legio IV Macedonica and Ala I Thracum an auxiliary unit with Thracian Horsemen. It is known that the Romans used the Balkans as a major recruiting area for legionnaires and there are artifacts known that suggest some of these legionairs settled in the Rhineland after their military service was completed. Interesting also are the references to Troy in this region which include; The Trojan heritage claimed by the Dukes of Kleve, The Roman history writer Tacitus who tells of Greek inscriptions at the fortress of Asciburgium connected to Odysseus (just like the Portuguese city Lisbon), and the Frankish Trojan origin myth regarding the Sicambri tribe.
"De R1b-Nederlanders zijn waarschijnlijk vanuit het Iberisch schiereiland (Spanje/Portugal) in ons land terechtgekomen, terwijl haplogroep I Scandinavisch (Noormannen of Friezen?) bloed in de aderen heeft. Nog een aardigheidje voor Oost-Brabant: daar is een relatieve concentratie van haplogroep J gevonden. Volgens genetisch genealogen zijn die mensen waarschijnlijk nazaten van de oude Romeinen, gelegerd in Noviomagus (Nijmegen) of rond Locus Paludosus (De Peel)."
Artikel/Boekrecensie "Zonen van Adam in Nederland", Eindhovens Dagblad dinsdag 03 februari 2009.
"R1b3 komt vooral voor op de zandgronden in het binnenland en I aan de kust. Het voorkomen van J houdt mogelijk verband met de Romeinse tijd. Zij komen m.n. voor in Noord-Oost Brabant, waar het Romeinse leger nog lang aanwezig is geweest. Wellicht dat ook het voorkomen van de haplogroepen G en E hiermee verband houden."
Project Genetische Genealogie 2008, Website Nederlandse Genealogische Vereniging 2011.
"„Ceterum et Ulixen quidam opinantur longo illo et fabuloso errore in hunc Oceanum delatum adisse Germaniae terras, Asciburgiumque, quod in ripa Rheni situm hodieque incolitur, ab illo constitutum nominatumque; aram quin etiam Ulixi consecratam, adiecto Laertae patris nomine, eodem loco olim repertam, monumentaque et tumulos quosdam Graecis litteris inscriptos in confinio Germaniae Raetiaeque adhuc extare.“
Tacitus, Germania.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niederrheinischer_Trojamythos
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xanten
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limes
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skamandros
Exactly, early days of DNA research.Northern Italian from am area of a couple roman named towns- now living in canada. My Y chromosone came back with haplogroup R-L150, when researching the clusters of 1000+ or more, each of those areas had roman garrisons, roughly the same time period, throughout europe- only a few places in Italy, morocco, middle east and central europe, and a few surprising areas but again areas where romans were known to have had an outpost. A few anomalies can be explained by later migration. Also a surprise is that no clusters show up in present day Turkey, except for around Van. The question is what time frame do these haplogroups and subgroups cover? Or are we in early days of DNA research?
"Wine making spread to Crete during the Minoan period and then later to Italy with the Etruscans and to Iberia with the Phoenicians. It was an integral component of the economy and social culture of the proto-greek civilizations and the phoenicians who both went on to settle other mediterranean coastal regions. And tracing the spread of Viticulture from its origins to its spread before the Roman period, we can see te highest levels of Haplogroup J2 today correlate with the geographical centres of all these civilizations. While viticulture may not represent the first wave of M172 migrants to Europe, M172 certainly played a strong role in bringing Viticulture to Europe with such civilizations as the Minoans, Greeks and Phoenicians."
M172 Blog - Correlations in the spread of Viticulture and Haplogroup J2, 2008.
http://m172.blogspot.nl/2008/10/corr...ticulture.html
"Romans surely helped spread haplogroup J2 across its borders, judging from the distribution of J2 within Europe (frequency over 5%) wich bears an uncanny resemblance to the borders of the Roman Empire."
Eupedia.com, 2013.
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J2-M172 Y-DNA European Countries Population Estimate Top 25 + Civilisations.
(Top 25 of all countries included in this research & major civilisations/tribes they were part of.)
1. Turkey/Anatolia (8.966.912) - (Ancient Greece*, Thrace, Roman Empire, Byzantium, Ottoman Empire)
2. Italy (5.513.513) - (Ancient Greece*, Etruscan, Roman Empire, Byzantium, Holy Roman Empire)
3. France (2.198.498) - (Ancient Greece*, Roman Empire, Frankish Empire, Holy Roman Empire)
4. Russia (2.137.766) - (Ancient Greece*, Sarmatia, Scythia, Russian Empire)
5. Germany (1.829.382) - (Germania, Roman Empire, Frankish Empire, Holy Roman Empire)
6. Ukraine (1.457.757) - (Ancient Greece*, Sarmatia, Scythia)
7. Romania (1.420.153) - (Ancient Greece*, Thrace, Roman Empire, Ottoman Empire)
8. Spain (1.417.960) - (Ancient Greece*, Phoenician, Roman Empire, Gothic Kingdom, Moors, Spanish Empire)
9. Greece (1.238.300) - (Ancient Greece*, Greek Seleucid Empire*, Roman Empire, Byzantium, Ottoman)
10. England (892.500) - (Roman Empire, British Empire)
11. Bulgaria (545.440) - (Ancient Greece*, Thrace, Roman Empire, Byzantium, Ottoman Empire)
12. Portugal (512.119) - (Ancient Greece*, Phoenician, Roman Empire)
13. Netherlands (501.919) - (Germania, Roman Empire, Frankish Empire, Holy Roman Empire)
14. Austria (493.185) - (Roman Empire, Frankish Empire, Holy Roman Empire, Austria- Hungarian Empire)
15. Poland (480.192) - (Sarmatia, Polish Kingdom, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, Vlach & German Settlers)
16. Hungary (348.546) - (Roman Empire, Kingdom of Hungary, Austria- Hungarian Empire)
17. Czech Republic (305.319) - (Roman Empire, Holy Roman Empire)
18. Albania (292.779) - (Ancient Greece*, Illyria, Roman Empire, Byzantium, Ottoman Empire)
19. Switserland (240.000) - (Roman Empire, Frankish Empire, Holy Roman Empire)
20. Serbia (236.490) - (Ancient Greece*, Roman Empire, Austria- Hungarian Empire, Ottoman Empire)
21. Cyprus (203.378) - (Ancient Greece*, Roman Empire, Byzantium, Ottoman Empire)
22. Sweden (143.101) - (Germanic, Nordic, Viking, Kingdom of Sweden, Swedish Empire)
23. Macedonia (FYROM) (124.942) - (Ancient Greece*, Macedon, Roman Empire, Byzantium, Ottoman Empire)
24. Bosnia-Herzegovina (116.379) - (Illyria, Roman Empire, Byzantium, Ottoman Empire)
25. Slovakia (108.906) - (Scytho-Thracian, Celts, Roman Empire, Kingdom of Hungary)
J2-M172 Y-DNA Countries Of All Regions Population Estimate Top 25 + Civilisations.
(Top 25 of all countries included in this research & major civilisations/tribes they were part of.)
1. Turkey/Anatolia (8.966.912) - (Ancient Greece*, Thrace, Roman Empire, Byzantium, Ottoman Empire)
2. Italy (5.513.513) - (Ancient Greece*, Etruscan, Roman Empire, Byzantium, Holy Roman Empire)
3. Egypt (4.510.000) - (Ancient Egypt, Greek Ptolemaic Kingdom*, Roman Empire, Ottoman Empire)
4. Iran (4.508.980) - (Parthian Empire, Greek Seleucid Empire*, Greco-Bactrian Kingdom*, Persian Empire)
5. Iraq (3.035.099) - (Mesopotamia, Greek Seleucid Empire*, Roman Empire, Persian Empire, Ottoman Empire)
6. France (2.198.498) - (Ancient Greece*, Roman Empire, Frankish Empire, Holy Roman Empire)
7. Russia (2.137.766) - (Ancient Greece*, Sarmatia, Scythia, Russian Empire)
8. Syria (1.915.113) - (Mesopotamia, Phoenician, Greek Seleucid Empire*, Roman Empire, Ottoman Empire)
9. Germany (1.829.382) - (Germania, Roman Empire, Frankish Empire, Holy Roman Empire)
10. Ukraine (1.457.757) - (Ancient Greece*, Sarmatia, Scythia)
11. Romania (1.420.153) - (Ancient Greece*, Thrace, Roman Empire, Ottoman Empire)
12. Spain (1.417.960) - (Ancient Greece*, Phoenician, Roman Empire, Gothic Kingdom, Moors, Spanish Empire)
13. Azerbaijan (1.397.663) - (Scythia, Greek Seleucid Empire*, Roman Empire, Persian Empire)
14. Greece (1.238.300) - (Ancient Greece*, Greek Seleucid Empire*, Roman Empire, Byzantium, Ottoman)
15. England (892.500) - (Celtic, Roman Empire, British Empire)
16. Georgia (603.342) - (Ancient Greece*, Roman Empire)
17. Lebanon (549.120) - (Phoenician, Persian Empire, Greek Seleucid Empire*, Roman Empire, Ottoman)
18. Bulgaria (545.440) - (Ancient Greece*, Thrace, Roman Empire, Byzantium, Ottoman Empire)
19. Portugal (512.119) - (Ancient Greece*, Phoenician, Roman Empire)
20. Netherlands (501.919) - (Germania, Roman Empire, Frankish Empire, Holy Roman Empire)
21. Austria (493.185) - (Roman Empire, Frankish Empire, Holy Roman Empire)
22. Morocco (489.666) - (Phoenician, Roman Empire)
23. Poland (480.192) - (Sarmatia, Polish Kingdom, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, Vlach & German Settlers)
24. Jordan (423.038) - (Greek Seleucid Empire*, Roman Empire, Persian Empire, Ottoman Empire)
25. Armenia (358.842) - (Kingdom of Armenia, Roman Empire, Persian Empire. Ottoman Empire, Russian)
Taken from: http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/28986-J2-Population-Size-Estimates
"DNA of men whose forebears probably were Etruscans show they weren't local, but migrated, study says. Genetic studies of Italians in Tuscany show that their forefathers, the ancient Etruscans, moved to Italy from what is now Turkey -- an origin that many archeologists have dismissed as unlikely. The Etruscans, who emerged about 1200 BC, reached their zenith in the 6th century BC, dominating Italy and the Mediterranean area until being assimilated into the Roman Republic about 200 BC. They provided many of the cultural underpinnings of Roman society. They were skilled metallurgists and masterful seafarers, but their origin has been a source of dispute for at least 2,500 years."
LA Times - Genetic tests: Italians were from Turkey
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jun/18/science/sci-etruscans18
"The J2f-M67 clade is localized to Northwest Turkey. It is well known that during this period, Northwest Anatolia developed a complex society that engaged in widespread Aegean trade referred to as "Maritime Troia culture," involving both the western Anatolian mainland and several of the large islands in the eastern Aegean, Chios, Lemnos and Lesbos (Korfmann 1996)."
Excavating Y-chromosome haplotype strata in Anatolia.
http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Cinnioglu2004.pdf
"2.1. The Maritime Troy Culture.The coastline of the North Aegean and the costal regions of the Marmara Sea were determined as the area of distribution of the “Maritime Troy Culture”, which encompasses the first three settlement phases of Troy from c. 2920 to 2200 BC (KORFMANN 2006:4). In more general terms this is the period of the Early Bronze Age (EBA)"
http://tobias-lib.uni-tuebingen.de/v...ss_Guendem.pdf
Etruscans (J2) and Rome.
"A 2004 study by Semino et al. contradicted this study, and showed that Italians in North-central regions (like Tuscany and Emilia-Romagna) had a higher concentration of J2 than their Southern counterparts. North-central had 26.9% J2, whereas Calabria (a far Southern region) had 20.0%, Sardinia had 9.7% and Sicily had 16.7%. This could be because of the ancient Etruscans, who some think originated in the Near East."
Wikipedia.org - Genetic History of Italy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_history_of_Italy
"J2a`s strong presence in Italy is owed in great part to the migration of the Etruscans from western Anatolia to central and northern Italy, and to the Greek colonisation of southern Italy. Immigration from the eastern Mediterranean to Rome during the Roman Empire, then from Anatolia, Thrace and Greece during the Byzantine period period (particularly in north-eastern Italy) further increased the incidence of j2 in the peninsula."
Eupedia.com - Haplogroup J2. (2013)
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J2_Y-DNA.shtml
"The presence of J2 haplotypes in central Italy may be related to the debated hypothesis of an Anatolian origin of the Etruscan people, as suggested by mtDNA analysis on modern and ancient samples (Francalacci et al., 1996; Vernesi et al., 2004; Achilli et al., 2007), although it could be arrived in the region much earlier following the Neolithic expansion."
Phylogeography of Y-chromosome in Europe.
http://eprints.uniss.it/2783/1/Francalacci_P_Articolo_2008_History.pdf
"A certain occurrence of J2-M172 Y-chromosomes in Tuscany has been related to the Etruscan heritage of the region (Achilli et al., 2007)."
Phylogeography of Y-chromosome in Europe.
http://eprints.uniss.it/2783/1/Francalacci_P_Articolo_2008_History.pdf
Haplogroup J2 and Romans.
"Nog een aardigheidje voor Oost-Brabant: daar is een relatieve concentratie van haplogroep J gevonden. Volgens genetisch genealogen zijn die mensen waarschijnlijk nazaten van de oude Romeinen, gelegerd in Noviomagus (Nijmegen) of rond Locus Paludosus (De Peel)."
Eindhovens Dagblad - Veel DNA komt uit Spanje en Scandinavië. (Dutch)
http://www.ed.nl/regio/4449996/Veel-...candinavie.ece
Translated: One remarkable fact about this research is the concentration of J(2) found in the province of North Brabant, Genetic Genealogist believe these people are decended from Roman Soldiers stationed in Noviomagus (City of Nijmegen) and Locus Paludosis (De Peel)"
Noviomagus (Nijmegen).
"Ulpia Noviomagus Batavorum is de naam van Nijmegen in de laat-Romeinse tijd; het voorvoegsel Ulpia verwijst naar keizer Marcus Ulpius Traianus hetgeen het mogelijk maakt de naam te dateren op 104 n.C. Voorheen stond de plaats bekend onder de naam Oppidum Batavorum. Of Batavodurum (versterkte stad van de Bataven) inderdaad dezelfde nederzetting aanduidt, is niet zeker."
Ulpia Noviomagus Batavorum (Dutch)
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulpia_Noviomagus_Batavorum
2) There is no complete mtDNA sequence for any ancient Roman or Etruscan. All we have are some incomplete HVRI sequences ...
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