Fire Haired
Regular Member
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- 689
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- Ethnic group
- Celto-Germanic, Latino(~6%)
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- R1b Df27(Spain)
- mtDNA haplogroup
- U5b2a2(Prussia)
What I meant to say is that Europeans usually belong to R1b-M269, although it isn't only Europeans of course. In any case M269 probably spread from the North Caucasus and Pontic Steppe first to Europe (Balkans), then much later (about 2000 years later actually, since M269 reached Romania around 4000 BCE, but the Hittites didn't invade Anatolia until about 2000 BCE) to the Middle East. So you could say that M269 ultimately represents a European invasion of the Middle East. Autosomally the West European component of the Dodecad's K12 was surely spread to the Middle East by R1b M269+L23+Z2103.
Can u give a link to were u get these Dodecad K12 results. Because when looking at mid estern people in globe13 the for sure Mesolithic-Paleolithic European group and only one unique to Europe called north Euro. It is almost non existent in all mid easterns except Indo Iranian speakers were it is uselly over 5%. Which makes sense.
Ur theory does make sense. But I still dont get why R1b L23 is so popular in areas were Anatolian languages never dominated unless the Hittites made a huge effect in those areas. I guess it is really spread out in Anatolia which could be because of the Hittites.
Considering that R1b surely stayed between 2000 or 3000 years in the steppe before invading Southeast Europe that is hard to believe that all subclades under L23 evolved so slowly afterwards. The gap between L23 and L11 would be almost 5000 years !
In my view, it was P297 which crossed the Caucasus and divided into M269 and M73 in the Steppe (Pontic vs Caspian).
What I meant was that the R1b-M73 in the Bashkirs was there since the Bronze Age. On the other hand, the Y-haplogroup N lineages probably came later, either with Uralic or Turkic people. Since the modern Bashkirs have been hybridised with Siberian N lineages they do not look anything like their Bronze Age ancestors anymore.
Isn't it according to ur theory it was in the steppes for 2,000-3,000 years. I think it is possible that R1b L23 went up to the steppes just 7,000ybp then to southeast Europe 6,000ybp and developed into R1b L51. While the L23 that stayed in the mid east formed into Z2103. The only Indo European languages that obviously spread from the steppes and Yamna culture in Indo Iranian and Balto Slavic because of their R1a1a1b S224 and Y DNA from their supposedly ancestor culture's which descended from Yamna. I dont really know that much about the ancient cultures but maybe Indo Europeans began in the north mid east. Then one branch spread to the steppes 6,000-7,000ybp mixed culturally with the Bug Dniester people and started Yamna culture. And Germanic Italo Celtic, Greek, Thracen-Dacen, Illyrain, Anatolian, Armenian all migrated out of mid east to southeast Europe or stayed around the north mid east.