I2a-Din came to the Balkans and Dinaric Alps with the Thracians, Dacians & Illyrians

Yes. My Hg is G2a - Z29424 negativ to all subgroups TMRCA 3200 years - paleo-balkanic origin. (...)
:) We are on the same path. I am G2a - P303 but very likely L13. I do not know beyond that. My grandparents are from the south. Is it not believed that the Cucutenians had a strong G2 component besides I2? It would not be surprising that the Dacians had also a significant proportion of G2a. Bigger that it is here today.
 
I see that too much discussions focus on the spread of haplogroups, but this represent very little of the human genome. I think this haplogroups are losing on the road very quickly and making room for others who thrive on the same genetic background.
Probably the most important are the autosomal variations?
 
How did an I2a3* alpine (L233-) man end up in the Pisa region of Tuscany, any suggestions or info on this branch would be much appreciated. Which migrations could have brought it and where is it most frequent?

I belong to I2a3* Alpine, what is his family name, is he of arberesh (medieval albanian) origin?
 
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I have given more thought about the origin of I2a-Din (L621>L147.2) and came to the following conclusion.

During the Mesolithic the I2a1 (P37.2) hunter-gatherers must have occupied a vast part of western, central and eastern Europe. Central and western European I2a1 lineages only survive at low frequencies in three newly identified subclades: L1286, L1294 and L880. The south-western M26 branch was absorbed by Neolithic farmers of the Cardium Pottery culture, whose descendants are found mostly in modern Sardinians and Basques.

The eastern branch, I2a1b (M423) were hunter-gatherers from the Carpathian region and/or from further north (Poland, Belarus, western Ukraine). Those in the Carpathian basin would have mixed with Middle Eastern Neolithic farmers and founded the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture (4800-3000 BCE). The whole region from Romania to Poland would then have been absorbed by the Proto-Indo-European Corded Ware culture (2900-2400 BCE).

After being Indo-Europeanized, I2a-L621 would have become the dominant paternal lineage among southern Slavs, while R1a remained dominant among northern Slavs.

The presence of I2a-L621 in Romania and Bulgaria could be attributed to the migration of the ancient Dacians and Thracians, who emerged as a mixture of of indigenous peoples (I2a1b) and Indo-Europeans (R1a) sometime between 3000 and 1500 BCE.

The Illyrians, an IE tribe who conquered the territory of former Yugoslavia circa 1200-1000 BCE, might have been an offshoot from the Dacians or the Thracians, or a closely related tribe from the Carpathian basin.

I used to think that I2a1b in the Dinaric Alps were the remnants of the original hunter-gatherers and that only the I2a1b outside the Dinaric Alps and Balkans were integrated to the Corded Ware culture and became Proto-Slavs, then Slavs. However there is so little difference between the Dinaric and other Eastern European I2a1b, all belonging to the same deep subclade (L621>CTS4002>...>L147.2) that they must all descend from a fairly recent ancestor and have expanded no earlier than 3000 to 1500 BCE.

And what are your toughts now, 7 years later, and 2 years later of the Eupedia I2 site upload?
 
I see that too much discussions focus on the spread of haplogroups, but this represent very little of the human genome. I think this haplogroups are losing on the road very quickly and making room for others who thrive on the same genetic background.
Probably the most important are the autosomal variations?

I don't agree.
Uniparental markers, and even more the males ones (Y haplogroups at first place) are of worth, these last ones because a lot of our old societies have been patriarcal and patrilocal during a long enough time: they don't illustrate our total genetic composition but tell a lot about some important actors of our history, good or bad ones. It depends on what you want to know...
 
So... Are the I2-Din guys are Illyrian descendants, or Bastarnae, or Thracian...?
 
So... Are the I2-Din guys are Illyrian descendants, or Bastarnae, or Thracian...?


I2a1-CTS10228 (Dinarid) arrived in Balkans with 7th century Slavic migrations across the Carpathian mountains. However their further origin is from East Europe being native hunter-gatherers there since Paleolitik.
They were ultimately slavicised around Ukraine/Poland/BelaRus by their conquerors R1a - original Slavic language carriers regarding East Europe.
 
The TMRCA 1850 ybp of S17250 (according to https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-S17250/ ) is very interesting, because the first sources of the Slavs are from 6th century, so app. 350 years later (for sure it's not means that Slavs didn't existed before 500 AD). I am really curious who were the I-S17250 people (and maybe I-Y3120 and I-CTS10228) people before the R1a Slav migration and conquer.
Which is the most up-to-date map of the wandering of I2 people, or particularly I-S17250?
 
The TMRCA 1850 ybp of S17250 (according to https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-S17250/ ) is very interesting, because the first sources of the Slavs are from 6th century, so app. 350 years later (for sure it's not means that Slavs didn't existed before 500 AD). I am really curious who were the I-S17250 people (and maybe I-Y3120 and I-CTS10228) people before the R1a Slav migration and conquer.
Which is the most up-to-date map of the wandering of I2 people, or particularly I-S17250?

Per FTDNA a new major CTS10228 subbranch was found: FT80992. The two samples in this subbranch are from Hungary and Germany. It looks like CTS10228 came from western locations prior to arriving in east Europe, as basal branches have been found in two males, of French and German descent. An “ancient” Y3120 sample from an estimated 1,000 or so years ago was posted in YFull, from Ukraine.
 
Dinarid? What do you mean?


Maybe i should have said Dinaric. In either case its geographical term, i guess they nicknamed I2a-CTS10228 "Dinaric" because of its high presence around Dinaric Alps reaching percentages as high as 70 % among Catholics from Bosnia and Hercegovina. But also in similar high but somewhat lower percentages can be found among Muslims in Bosnia.
 
We are mixed with Albanians and Vlachs and that's why we are different.

With Vlachs certainly but with Albanians (I don't know about Macedonia) I doubt there was much mixing except in rare cases, genetic studies results I've seen say there is no such evidence. My personal result said 0% Albanian even though I expected at least some distant Albanian relative due to geographical proximity and they've found in my genes Sibirian and north Afrikan DNA 0.1% and 0.3% respectively. Where would for example Someone from Slavonia or Dolenjska have met an Albanian to mix with ?
 
You all are new in this... Tmrca for I2a1 was work of Ken Northwead on Roots forum where Democratic party activist has shown his calculus developed in two years time. For his work as democratic activist Ken received medal from Bill Clinton. Their goal was to push in "recent time" haplogroup I2a1 on the balcan peninsula because of "rights on the land by descendants of proto europeans". It was political ploy. This is the point where genetics divorced from population genetics which become more of business.It is simple... Population has genes which do anthropological expressions. If you check antropology of people before slavs in the balcan they are dominantly dinaric. This antropology is from Cro Magnon people as was seen in Bichon Cro Magnon sample typed I2a1 haplogroup. Then there is problem with marker P37. 2 not resolved still. Dinaric antropological type came to the Balcan from unknown direction 2000 BC and become dominant and only one variant in clasical time on the Balcan with (Hyper) Brachicefally.Than there are recent massive migrations (in last 2 - 3 centuries) from the Balcan in time of Turkish - Austrian war in direction of Hungary-Ukraine which was damped for political reasons. Some of the markers like 488/19-20 in Ukraine are claimed to be older 20...as it was their indigenous population which is nonsense. All north din has 20.This is now total mess on I2a1. Good job Ken...you deserve every molecule of that 🥉.
 
I had read that the I2a-Din would be of Dacian origin, following the migration of the Dacians in northern Europe (Ukraine, Poland) in antiquity a sub-clade would have formed in contact with the R1a , then return to the Balkans
 
There is NO Dacian I2a-Din aDNA! And I have never seen a single Dacian aDNA. Did you?
 
No one can know it, but I read in a book that talk about the ancient Balkan civilizations with their haplogroup
 
With Vlachs certainly but with Albanians (I don't know about Macedonia) I doubt there was much mixing except in rare cases, genetic studies results I've seen say there is no such evidence. My personal result said 0% Albanian even though I expected at least some distant Albanian relative due to geographical proximity and they've found in my genes Sibirian and north Afrikan DNA 0.1% and 0.3% respectively. Where would for example Someone from Slavonia or Dolenjska have met an Albanian to mix with ?

the Vlachs have a strong I2 haplogrupe
 

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