R1b-U152 L2*

Where did R1b-U152 L2* in the Balkans originate from?


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Richard A. Rocca stated the following last year (see below). Note that with the Big Y results coming in this information is likely to change somewhat:

France and Britain

- We knew that L2 made up a larger percentage of U152 outside of Italy before, but now we know that L2 outside of Italy is primarily Z49 and Z367 in France and Britain. In general terms, this suggests that the U152-L2 in Britain is mostly of French (as in the geographical region) origin.

Switzerland, the Rhine and Italy
- There are still a lot of hidden lineages for L2 (xZ49, Z367) especially in Italy, Switzerland and the Rhine (so basically outside of France and Britain).
- Z36 forms a larger percentage of U152 frequency from western Switzerland to Tuscany than anywhere else and seems not to have been heavily involved with L2 in France or Britain.
- Within central Italy, L2 was curiously much lower than U152 (xL2) in the FTDNA samples, and now we know it is mostly attributed to Z36 and Z56.
- Within Tuscan Z36, almost all of it is Z54/Z143 which looks like a regional group as it is almost non-existent in FTDNA samples.
- We didn't know what to expect in Sardinia, but now we know U152 is heavily Z192 (and probably higher with its parent PF6658/Z193). It could be that this is due to an initial founder effect from coastal Tuscany as Z192 is also important there.
- In central Italy, Z56 sub lineages seem to be more frequent in Z144/Z145/Z146

The Low Countries
- Z367+Z34+ seems to have a stronger presence in the Low Countries than outside of it.

 
U152>L2>Z49, British Origins

Someone who is tracing his own particular U-152 lineage might want to see which particular legions were stationed in his ancestral area, and then check to see where the legions were originally formed, as that might give some clues?

I took you at your word. My Geno 2.0 came back U152>L2>Z49. My Y-ancestor was born in NW England (historic county Cumberland, now Cumbria) around 1650. The family appears to have originated a few miles south of Carlisle, which is at the western end of Hadrian's wall. The Roman legions which were involved in the construction / manning of the wall were II Augusta, VI Victrix, and XX Valeria Victrix. Unfortunately, I have not been able to determine exactly where these particular legions were raised - although II Augusta and VI Victrix both saw action in Perugia in 41 BCE, shortly after they were founded.

Have enough results come back to generate a haplogroup map for Z49, or even L2? The U152 map is interesting, but I'd like to see further refinement.

I'm glad to have found a group of people so passionate, educated, and respectful of each other.
 
mr. hammers finds for R1

https://gap.familytreedna.com/media/docs/2013/Hammer_M269_Diversity_in_Europe.pdf

note: page 13............Derenburg cave
1 G2a3
2 F*(xG,H,I,J,K)

See also

Evolutionary tree of human Y-chromosome DNA (Y-DNA) haplogroups

MRC Y-ancestor
A00A0'1'2'3'4
A0A1'2'3'4
A1A2'3'4
A2'3A4=BCDEF
A2A3BCDEF
DECF
DECF
GHIJKLT
GHIJKLT
HIJKLT
IJKLT
IJLTK
LTMPXS
MPNO
QRNO


  • Jump up ^ van Oven M, Van Geystelen A, Kayser M, Decorte R, Larmuseau HD (2013). "Seeing the wood for the trees: a minimal reference phylogeny for the human Y chromosome". Human Mutation. doi:10.1002/humu.22468. PMID 24166809.
References


Some scholars are saying that they will retest for L and T ydna from this cave since they where already split from K group before the age of these finds
 
Hello,

My Y-DNA is R1b-U152-L2. My ancestors came to Sevilla from Liguria, in Italy in 1657. Regards

Y-DNA : R1b1a2a1a1b3c (R-L2)
mtDNA: H65

Paternal: Giovanni Battista Rabai, b. 1647, Casanova Lerrone, Savona, Italy
Maternal: María García Martínez, b. 1746, Hontanaya, Cuenca, España
 
Hi everyone,

I had recently tested my DNA and googling for more info about my haplogroup I found this thread.

I and my parents are from Cesena, Adriatic coast of emilia rogmana in Italy. I have done a little of research and my surname (Taioli) likely come from veneto Italy, near Verone where there is even a place named Taioli.

DNA test report me R1b1a2a1a1b3c (myfdna) U152-L2+ and genographic project report my YDNA as R-Z150. mtDNA is H1.

So I must argue I got celtics antenates right?

If anyone can speculate more on my ancestry I will be very glad :)

I haven't found info on internet about Z150 :(
 
Hi everyone,

I had recently tested my DNA and googling for more info about my haplogroup I found this thread.

I and my parents are from Cesena, Adriatic coast of emilia rogmana in Italy. I have done a little of research and my surname (Taioli) likely come from veneto Italy, near Verone where there is even a place named Taioli.

DNA test report me R1b1a2a1a1b3c (myfdna) U152-L2+ and genographic project report my YDNA as R-Z150. mtDNA is H1.

So I must argue I got celtics antenates right?

If anyone can speculate more on my ancestry I will be very glad :)

I haven't found info on internet about Z150 :(

If you are from Veneto, then your cognome Taioli has been changed. There are not many words in Veneto with just Tai....., most likely it was Tajol ( which means mallet ). Maybe I am wrong and I will check the veneto registers from 1800 for your cognome

L2 appears in a high % in the veneto,trentino and Friuli alps. There is a thread here explaining the 2013 paper from Ciao in regards to this marker.

Ask Nobody ( a member here ) as he has the break down of these markers


I could be 100% wrong , but Taioli comes from near Pisa ( tuscany ), the other Tajoli

Origine del cognome Tajoli, provenienza: Italia
Titolo Nobili
stemma.php
Della famiglia, oriunda reggiana, si conosce una Ventura, medico nel 1527, ed un Giulio, giurisperito, vivente nel 1579. Un Lodovico, fu Giuliano, vissuto nel secolo XVI, sposò la Contessa Giulia Parisetti vedova del conte Alessandro Scaruffi. Fece testamento a rogito Rolando Rocci, il 31 maggio 1610. Ebbe un fratello, Pietro Francesco
comes from
Badia Calavena ( Verona region , Veneto )
 
Thank Duke for the info :) As you sad the surname probably came from tajoli. I found that info on this page ( ganino dot com slash cognomi_italiani_t ). It say

"[SIZE=-1]Taiola ha un ceppo a Lumezzane, Brescia, Nave, Villa Carcina, Vobarno, Borgosatollo e Concesio nel bresciano, con un ceppo anche a Cervia nel ravennate, Taioli ha un ceppo nel veronese a Badia Calavena, Lavagno, Verona, Illasi, Tregnago e San Martino Buon Albergo, con un ceppo anche a Cesena e Cesenatico nel cesenate, Tajola è unico e Tajoli lo è quasi e sembrerebbero entrambi dell'area veronese, potrebbero derivare da soprannomi originati dalla voce dialettale veneta tajola (falso asfodelo, tipo di pianta delle liliacee), ma è pure possibile che i soprannomi derivino dalla taiolla o taiola un tipo di legno molto sottile utilizzato per casse destinate a contenere sapone, voce comune sia all'antica lingua veneta che emiliana e marchigiana: "...Solebant etiam ipsi Marchiani et Anconitani suum saponem mittere Venecias et nichil modo mittunt, set illud de suis partibus caricatur et portatur tam per mercatores Venetos quam alios cum navibus Venetorum et aliorum ad alias partes sicut volunt mittunt etiam ipsi Anchonitani et Marchiani suum saponem per mundum in capselis de çapino subtilibus et nostri mercatores Veneti in capsellis de taiolla, que sunt grosse et in eis sapone melius conservatur, nam sicud nostri ipsas tabulas de taiola et laborari faciunt et non infictari, quod quidem lignamen extrahunt pro lignamine laborato et solvunt solum X pro centenario et lignamine non laboratum solvit L pro centenario, de quo comune defraudatur, unde dicti mercatores instanter supplicant quatenus super predictis provideatur ad hoc ut dicta ars saponis reduci valeat in bonum statum suum et comunis....".[/SIZE]"

It say may derivate from venet dialectal word tajola (the name of a plant) or taiolla/taiola (a kind o wood).

In the city of Velo Veronese (province of Verona) there is a fraction named Taioli.
 
Thank you Nobody1 for your private reply and Sile for your support.

I have another question.

I have downloaded my data from geno project. Comparing my snp report with the he ISOGG 2014 snp list I see that my Z150 is C and that correspond to excpected value (ISOGG report z150 as mutation from T->C) but looking ad Z142 I'm A but ISOGG report it as mutation from A->G so I have mutation Z150 but not Z142? Is possible? I have read that Z150 is a sub of Z142

MY GENO DATA:

SNPChrAllele1Allele2
L2YTT
Z49YTG
Z142YAA
Z150YCC


ISOGG 2104
L2 C->T
Z49 G->T
Z142 A->G
Z150 T->C

What that means?
 
I have downloaded my data from geno project. Comparing my snp report with the he ISOGG 2014 snp list I see that my Z150 is C and that correspond to excpected value (ISOGG report z150 as mutation from T->C) but looking ad Z142 I'm A but ISOGG report it as mutation from A->G so I have mutation Z150 but not Z142? Is possible? I have read that Z150 is a sub of Z142

I was told by the one of the admins at the FTDNA R-U152 project that the Z142 test on the Geno 2.0 chip is not functioning. My test came back Z49+/Z142-, but he said that was not definitive and he recommended getting a retest for Z142 through FTDNA. Luckily for you, you tested positive for a downstream SNP, so you can presume positive for Z142.
 
Thank you Ahead01 for the precious info :)
 
I was told by the one of the admins at the FTDNA R-U152 project that the Z142 test on the Geno 2.0 chip is not functioning. My test came back Z49+/Z142-, but he said that was not definitive and he recommended getting a retest for Z142 through FTDNA. Luckily for you, you tested positive for a downstream SNP, so you can presume positive for Z142.

That is disappointing and could be confusing!

Are those re-tests provided by FTDNA at no cost or will there be a fee for the re-test?

Does anyone know when the Z150 snp test will be available a la carte?

Curtis
 
I found the answer to one of my questions. The Z150 SNP test is currently available only through Geno 2.0.
 
Z12222(Z150) is being offered a-la-carte on the FTDNA advanced orders menu.

I just ordered it along with L2. I tested positive for L2 previously but it was with Genebase and it will not transfer into FTDNA.

Could it be that we will finally be able to figure out our L2 origins?
 
Z12222(Z150) is being offered a-la-carte on the FTDNA advanced orders menu.

I just ordered it along with L2. I tested positive for L2 previously but it was with Genebase and it will not transfer into FTDNA.

Could it be that we will finally be able to figure out our L2 origins?

You can order Z150 and if found to be positive you know that you are L2+ by default.
Anyhow, now you will have confirmation. I hope your Z150 test turns out to be positive, every step downstream is money well spent. Even if you are Z150- it is useful as it will rule out one option and be historically significant in the long run.

Good luck!
 
You can order Z150 and if found to be positive you know that you are L2+ by default.
Anyhow, now you will have confirmation. I hope your Z150 test turns out to be positive, every step downstream is money well spent. Even if you are Z150- it is useful as it will rule out one option and be historically significant in the long run.

Good luck!

Thanks for the reply. There is no doubt that I am L2+. Genebase is not the most popular testing company but their results are not inaccurate. Besides I have tested positive for both Z49 and Z142 which are downstream from L2.

I am tracking Mitchell's results as he and I share all the positive and negative SNPs. I am really interested in the Davenport sample as well as he is my closest match within the tested SNPs.

Regards,
Curtis
 
Hello everyone, I'm new. Within a month ago I received the result of Geno 2.0. My genealogical research has led me to Savona, Italy. And the results of the genetic test is as follows. With the results I associate, what you think could be the next child after L2 * by "The latest U152 phylogenetic tree by Richard A. Rocca". Thanks for your help.

The family name is Rabai.

Regards


---
Haplogroup Info
Your Haplogroup Tests Taken
R-L2 CTS10168+, CTS10362+, CTS10834+, CTS109+, CTS11358+, CTS11468+, CTS11575+, CTS11726+, CTS11985+, CTS12478+, CTS125+, CTS12632+, CTS1996+, CTS2134+, CTS2664+, CTS3063+, CTS3135+, CTS3331+, CTS3358+, CTS3431+, CTS3536+, CTS3575+, CTS3654+, CTS3662+, CTS3868+, CTS3996+, CTS4244+, CTS4364+, CTS4368+, CTS4437+, CTS4443+, CTS4740+, CTS5318+, CTS5457+, CTS5532+, CTS5577+, CTS5884+, CTS6135+, CTS623+, CTS6383+, CTS6800+, CTS6907+, CTS7400+, CTS7659+, CTS7922+, CTS7933+, CTS8243+, CTS8591+, CTS8665+, CTS8728+, CTS8980+, CTS9828+, F1046+, F115+, F1209+, F1302+, F1320+, F1329+, F1704+, F1714+, F1753+, F1767+, F1794+, F180+, F2048+, F2075+, F211+, F2142+, F2155+, F2302+, F2402+, F2587+, F2688+, F2710+, F2837+, F29+, F295+, F2985+, F2993+, F3111+, F313+, F3136+, F33+, F332+, F3335+, F344+, F3556+, F356+, F359+, F3692+, F378+, F4+, F47+, F506+, F556+, F63+, F640+, F647+, F652+, F671+, F719+, F82+, F83+, F93+, L11+, L132+, L15+, L150+, L151+, L16+, L2+, L23+, L265+, L278+, L350+, L388+, L389+, L407+, L468+, L470+, L471+, L478+, L482+, L483+, L498+, L500+, L502+, L506+, L51+, L52+, L585+, L721+, L747+, L752+, L754+, L761+, L768+, L773+, L774+, L779+, L82+, M139+, M168+, M207+, M235+, M294+, M343+, M415+, M42+, M45+, M526+, M89+, M94+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P14+, P141+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P151+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P225+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P232+, P233+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P240+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P295+, P297+, P310+, PAGES00083+, PF1016+, PF1029+, PF1031+, PF1040+, PF1046+, PF1061+, PF1092+, PF1097+, PF110+, PF1203+, PF1269+, PF1276+, PF192+, PF210+, PF212+, PF223+, PF234+, PF258+, PF2591+, PF2593+, PF2599+, PF2608+, PF2611+, PF2615+, PF2624+, PF263+, PF2643+, PF272+, PF2745+, PF2747+, PF2748+, PF2749+, PF2770+, PF278+, PF292+, PF316+, PF325+, PF342+, PF500+, PF5465+, PF5466+, PF5468+, PF5471+, PF5851+, PF5853+, PF5854+, PF5865+, PF5869+, PF5871+, PF5882+, PF5886+, PF5887+, PF5888+, PF5953+, PF5956+, PF5957+, PF5964+, PF5965+, PF5982+, PF6063+, PF6091+, PF6145+, PF6246+, PF6249+, PF6250+, PF6263+, PF6265+, PF6270+, PF6271+, PF6272+, PF6404+, PF6409+, PF6411+, PF6424+, PF6425+, PF6430+, PF6432+, PF6434+, PF6438+, PF6443+, PF6463+, PF6494+, PF6495+, PF6498+, PF6500+, PF6506+, PF6507+, PF6509+, PF6524+, PF667+, PF719+, PF725+, PF7506+, PF779+, PF796+, PF803+, PF815+, PF821+, PF840+, PF844+, PF892+, PF937+, PF951+, PF954+, PF970+, s10+, s3+, U152+, V186+, V189+, V205+, V52+, V9+, YSC0000067+, YSC0000072+, YSC0000075+, YSC0000082+, YSC0000166+, YSC0000176+, YSC0000179+, YSC0000182+, YSC0000186+, YSC0000191+, YSC0000194+, YSC0000201+, YSC0000203+, YSC0000205+, YSC0000207+, YSC0000213+, YSC0000219+, YSC0000224+, YSC0000225+, YSC0000227+, YSC0000230+, YSC0000232+, YSC0000233+, YSC0000251+, YSC0000269+, YSC0000270+, YSC0000279+, YSC0000288+, YSC0000294+
 
News just in! My Z12222/Z150 test was completed yesterday and I am positive!

I think the next SNP for me to test is CTS 9490 when and if it becomes available a la carte via FTDNA.

Regards,
Curtis

You can order Z150 and if found to be positive you know that you are L2+ by default.
Anyhow, now you will have confirmation. I hope your Z150 test turns out to be positive, every step downstream is money well spent. Even if you are Z150- it is useful as it will rule out one option and be historically significant in the long run.

Good luck!
 
Hello everyone, I'm new. Within a month ago I received the result of Geno 2.0. My genealogical research has led me to Savona, Italy. And the results of the genetic test is as follows. With the results I associate, what you think could be the next child after L2 * by "The latest U152 phylogenetic tree by Richard A. Rocca". Thanks for your help.

The family name is Rabai.

Regards


---
Haplogroup Info
Your Haplogroup Tests Taken
R-L2 CTS10168+, CTS10362+, CTS10834+, CTS109+, CTS11358+, CTS11468+, CTS11575+, CTS11726+, CTS11985+, CTS12478+, CTS125+, CTS12632+, CTS1996+, CTS2134+, CTS2664+, CTS3063+, CTS3135+, CTS3331+, CTS3358+, CTS3431+, CTS3536+, CTS3575+, CTS3654+, CTS3662+, CTS3868+, CTS3996+, CTS4244+, CTS4364+, CTS4368+, CTS4437+, CTS4443+, CTS4740+, CTS5318+, CTS5457+, CTS5532+, CTS5577+, CTS5884+, CTS6135+, CTS623+, CTS6383+, CTS6800+, CTS6907+, CTS7400+, CTS7659+, CTS7922+, CTS7933+, CTS8243+, CTS8591+, CTS8665+, CTS8728+, CTS8980+, CTS9828+, F1046+, F115+, F1209+, F1302+, F1320+, F1329+, F1704+, F1714+, F1753+, F1767+, F1794+, F180+, F2048+, F2075+, F211+, F2142+, F2155+, F2302+, F2402+, F2587+, F2688+, F2710+, F2837+, F29+, F295+, F2985+, F2993+, F3111+, F313+, F3136+, F33+, F332+, F3335+, F344+, F3556+, F356+, F359+, F3692+, F378+, F4+, F47+, F506+, F556+, F63+, F640+, F647+, F652+, F671+, F719+, F82+, F83+, F93+, L11+, L132+, L15+, L150+, L151+, L16+, L2+, L23+, L265+, L278+, L350+, L388+, L389+, L407+, L468+, L470+, L471+, L478+, L482+, L483+, L498+, L500+, L502+, L506+, L51+, L52+, L585+, L721+, L747+, L752+, L754+, L761+, L768+, L773+, L774+, L779+, L82+, M139+, M168+, M207+, M235+, M294+, M343+, M415+, M42+, M45+, M526+, M89+, M94+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P14+, P141+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P151+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P225+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P232+, P233+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P240+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P295+, P297+, P310+, PAGES00083+, PF1016+, PF1029+, PF1031+, PF1040+, PF1046+, PF1061+, PF1092+, PF1097+, PF110+, PF1203+, PF1269+, PF1276+, PF192+, PF210+, PF212+, PF223+, PF234+, PF258+, PF2591+, PF2593+, PF2599+, PF2608+, PF2611+, PF2615+, PF2624+, PF263+, PF2643+, PF272+, PF2745+, PF2747+, PF2748+, PF2749+, PF2770+, PF278+, PF292+, PF316+, PF325+, PF342+, PF500+, PF5465+, PF5466+, PF5468+, PF5471+, PF5851+, PF5853+, PF5854+, PF5865+, PF5869+, PF5871+, PF5882+, PF5886+, PF5887+, PF5888+, PF5953+, PF5956+, PF5957+, PF5964+, PF5965+, PF5982+, PF6063+, PF6091+, PF6145+, PF6246+, PF6249+, PF6250+, PF6263+, PF6265+, PF6270+, PF6271+, PF6272+, PF6404+, PF6409+, PF6411+, PF6424+, PF6425+, PF6430+, PF6432+, PF6434+, PF6438+, PF6443+, PF6463+, PF6494+, PF6495+, PF6498+, PF6500+, PF6506+, PF6507+, PF6509+, PF6524+, PF667+, PF719+, PF725+, PF7506+, PF779+, PF796+, PF803+, PF815+, PF821+, PF840+, PF844+, PF892+, PF937+, PF951+, PF954+, PF970+, s10+, s3+, U152+, V186+, V189+, V205+, V52+, V9+, YSC0000067+, YSC0000072+, YSC0000075+, YSC0000082+, YSC0000166+, YSC0000176+, YSC0000179+, YSC0000182+, YSC0000186+, YSC0000191+, YSC0000194+, YSC0000201+, YSC0000203+, YSC0000205+, YSC0000207+, YSC0000213+, YSC0000219+, YSC0000224+, YSC0000225+, YSC0000227+, YSC0000230+, YSC0000232+, YSC0000233+, YSC0000251+, YSC0000269+, YSC0000270+, YSC0000279+, YSC0000288+, YSC0000294+

Thanks!

Have you joined the U152 subclades project at FTDNA? Richard A. Rocca is the co-administrator of the project and will be able to assist you.
 
News just in! My Z12222/Z150 test was completed yesterday and I am positive!

I think the next SNP for me to test is CTS 9490 when and if it becomes available a la carte via FTDNA.

Regards,
Curtis

Congrats Curtis, that's great news!
 

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