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View Poll Results: Where did R1b-U152 L2* in the Balkans originate from?

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Thread: R1b-U152 L2*

  1. #51
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-L2 Z49 Z142 Z150*

    Ethnic group
    French/Greek
    Country: USA - Kentucky



    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellsince1893 View Post
    That's the one.
    I've been on Eupedia for a while...just don't post much. But with this post I now have enough to post links.

    Curtis, I hope you do the YSEQ SNP test so we can find out if you are on my branch.
    lol. I thought that is what you were thinking! I will send my order in soon.

    Curtis

  2. #52
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-L2 Z49 Z142 Z150*

    Ethnic group
    French/Greek
    Country: USA - Kentucky



    French ancestors

    Quote Originally Posted by Baham View Post
    I have just learned that my father is R-Z150. This is all very new to us.
    We can trace our direct male ancestor to Barlac, Gascogne, France in 1720. I can not find it on any current maps, but this is what he stated in his will.
    Greetings Baham and welcome to this forum!

    I am interested in seeing your Father's STR results. Have you uploaded them to ysearch.org? It is a free site and a great place to do family genetic genealogy research.

    Also the best group you can join is the FTDNA group: R-U152 and Subclades Research Project. Here is the url:

    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ion=ycolorized

    Regards,
    Curtis

  3. #53
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    father= R-Z150
    MtDNA haplogroup
    L2a

    Country: USA - California



    Thank you so much, Curtis.
    I will see if I can give you those results, after I get permission.
    Like I said, this is all new. Ysearch.org sounds interesting, and so does that FTDNA group.

    Thanks again,
    Denyse

  4. #54
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-FGC13617
    MtDNA haplogroup
    T2b1

    Ethnic group
    European
    Country: Greece



    Thanks to next-generation sequencing technology we now have 8 main branches stemming from U152 and 18 branches from L2. If you are U152 please purchase an NGS test (Big Y, Full Genomes) and help us build on this!

    Two levels downstream from U152
    U152 Org Chart 14 Dec 14v2.jpg

    Two levels downstream from L2
    L2 Org Chart-13-dec-14.jpg

    Credit goes to Richard Rocca.

  5. #55
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-L2 Z49 Z142 Z150*

    Ethnic group
    French/Greek
    Country: USA - Kentucky



    Quote Originally Posted by Dorianfinder View Post
    Thanks to next-generation sequencing technology we now have 8 main branches stemming from U152 and 18 branches from L2. If you are U152 please purchase an NGS test (Big Y, Full Genomes) and help us build on this!

    Two levels downstream from U152
    U152 Org Chart 14 Dec 14v2.jpg

    Two levels downstream from L2
    L2 Org Chart-13-dec-14.jpg

    Credit goes to Richard Rocca.
    I just ordered Big Y!! Anyone know how long it takes to get the results?

    Product
    Date Batch
    Big Y
    12/18/2014 Batched 601
    12/17/2014 Ordered 601
    Pending Completed 601


  6. #56
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-FGC13617
    MtDNA haplogroup
    T2b1

    Ethnic group
    European
    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by Pi gman View Post
    I just ordered Big Y!! Anyone know how long it takes to get the results?

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    12/18/2014 Batched 601
    12/17/2014 Ordered 601
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    Hi Curtis, from experience I can tell you that the Big Y takes a while ... at least 3 months. The advantage of testing (Big Y) with FTDNA is their matching program. If anybody has one of your private SNPs it will show up and you will see it. Good luck!

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

    Lack of L2 in Spain could be an important research project

    Hi
    While I like the ideas behind what has been said.
    I do have some concern about what appears to be a real problem with Spain.
    After the Moors were driven out of Spain they drove out any Jews who would not convert to Catholicism. Many of those Jews went into France and up the West coast of France. If and it is a broad "if" these people were L2 this could have two results. One the lack of L2 in Spain today (would need to find Jewish skeletons in Spain and do DNA to prove this) Two this could have caused the larger than expected level of L2 in France as a lot of the Jews became Huguenots and there seems to be a large number of L2's in the old Huguenot areas.
    I may be wrong but i sure would love to have the money to carry out the DNA testing and then follow up with how many of theHuguenots who left France for England, Holland, Belgium were L2
    A lot of these Jews were also traders who spread themselves along trade routes through Europe and Great Britain.
    I may be wrong but sometimes looking for Why something is not there can be as rewarding than looking for what is there now
    Regards
    Harry

  8. #58
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-L2 Z49 Z142 Z150*

    Ethnic group
    French/Greek
    Country: USA - Kentucky



    Quote Originally Posted by harryandliz1 View Post
    Hi
    While I like the ideas behind what has been said.
    I do have some concern about what appears to be a real problem with Spain.
    After the Moors were driven out of Spain they drove out any Jews who would not convert to Catholicism. Many of those Jews went into France and up the West coast of France. If and it is a broad "if" these people were L2 this could have two results. One the lack of L2 in Spain today (would need to find Jewish skeletons in Spain and do DNA to prove this) Two this could have caused the larger than expected level of L2 in France as a lot of the Jews became Huguenots and there seems to be a large number of L2's in the old Huguenot areas.
    I may be wrong but i sure would love to have the money to carry out the DNA testing and then follow up with how many of theHuguenots who left France for England, Holland, Belgium were L2
    A lot of these Jews were also traders who spread themselves along trade routes through Europe and Great Britain.
    I may be wrong but sometimes looking for Why something is not there can be as rewarding than looking for what is there now
    Regards
    Harry
    Harry and Liz,

    I very much agree with your logic!

    Just a suggestion - perhaps you could start a new thread with your ideas as this one addresses the Balkan origins of L2. My L2,Z142,Z49,Z150 paternal ancestors may have taken this route as well as I am seeing some ancient autosomal dna hits along the border of Spain and France and hints of living in the Pyreenes on both the Spanish side as well as the French side. There are some ancient bones found in caves in Spain but not with viable y-DNA results just with autosomal.

  9. #59
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b (R-L2)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    T2

    Ethnic group
    Hellenic
    Country: United States



    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

    Dorians - Earliest Source of Italic L2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorianfinder View Post
    .....
    The Balkans (Greece, Romania etc.) have a significant amount of R1b-U152 L2* that may or may not belong to either one of these two Roman subclades. If future studies show this to be the case then where did these non-Roman subclades of R1b-U152 L2* originate from?
    Please consider this a un-academic hypothesis, and can be thought of as a request to locate public studies that may suggest agreement or refute it.
    While Greece has been mentioned several times through the first 3 pages (current tally), no one has posited that L2 came to the Italian peninsula via the Dorians (in spite of Dorianfinder's name). [Irritating that the word Dorian in this text is appearing as an unknown word or misspelled word. Greeks must fight every step of the way.]
    The Dorians swept down the west coast of the Balkans and into Greece presumably from point(s) north and east of the juncture of the Balkans and what is now Italy. As I recall, the Dorians are thought of as Italo-Celts, so it is logical that the group that fostered the Greek Dorians had a presence in Italy. From the Dorian waves came the Spartans and the Macedonians - warrior cultures - high in R1b Y DNA. It is clear that the Romans were by culture very different from the Etruscans and other pre-Romans in the peninsula. The Romans were a warrior culture. While they later had professional armies, they were a citizen army not unlike the Spartans, just not as regimented in their society, but perhaps more regimented, if possible, in their warrior state.
    Here is the connection to the L2s (this post). I am an L2 from an area in Greece related geographically/historically to the Dorians. (Maternal family - the males, are R1bs, from an area close to Sparta, but I do not know the frequency of L2 among them.)
    So, given the frequency map that Angela provided showing a high frequency in the north east of Italy of L2, while it might fit many other scenarios, it certainly fits a 'Dorian-like' pattern of movement, perhaps at the same time. I suppose linguistically, this could mean that the Dorians (forgive me) did not speak Greek but rather another proto-IE, or that the Italo-Dorians lost their Greek tongues in their travails going into the peninsula. Of course language would be a secondary issue at this point.
    If supported, then the Dorians spawned the Spartans, Macedonians and Romans - so the bad asses of the ancient world.
    Last edited by last-resort; 30-11-17 at 00:40. Reason: typo

  10. #60
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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by last-resort View Post
    Please consider this a un-academic hypothesis, and can be thought of as a request to locate public studies that may suggest agreement or refute it.
    While Greece has been mentioned several times through the first 3 pages (current tally), no one has posited that L2 came to the Italian peninsula via the Dorians (in spite of Dorianfinder's name). [Irritating that the word Dorian in this text is appearing as an unknown word or misspelled word. Greeks must fight every step of the way.]
    The Dorians swept down the west coast of the Balkans and into Greece presumably from point(s) north and east of the juncture of the Balkans and what is now Italy. As I recall, the Dorians are thought of as Italo-Celts, so it is logical that the group that fostered the Greek Dorians had a presence in Italy. From the Dorian waves came the Spartans and the Macedonians - warrior cultures - high in R1b Y DNA. It is clear that the Romans were by culture very different from the Etruscans and other pre-Romans in the peninsula. The Romans were a warrior culture. While they later had professional armies, they were a citizen army not unlike the Spartans, just not as regimented in their society, but perhaps more regimented, if possible, in their warrior state.
    Here is the connection to the L2s (this post). I am an L2 from an area in Greece related geographically/historically to the Dorians. (Maternal family - the males, are R1bs, from an area close to Sparta, but I do not know the frequency of L2 among them.)
    So, given the frequency map that Angela provided showing a high frequency in the north east of Italy of L2, while it might fit many other scenarios, it certainly fits a 'Dorian-like' pattern of movement, perhaps at the same time. I suppose linguistically, this could mean that the Dorians (forgive me) did not speak Greek but rather another proto-IE, or that the Italo-Dorians lost their Greek tongues in their travails going into the peninsula. Of course language would be a secondary issue at this point.
    If supported, then the Dorians spawned the Spartans, Macedonians and Romans - so the bad asses of the ancient world.
    I really don't like speculating about yDna lines absent some ancient dna and just going by modern distributions as that has been proven to lead to so many incorrect conclusions.

    However, for what it's worth, I'll put in my two cents.

    I've certainly read the speculation that perhaps the Dorics were a Celtic group and therefore carried U-152.

    I see some problems with that. For one thing, there is very little U-152 in Greece. Most of the R1b in Greece is, to my recollection, of the so-called "Armenian"-Yamnaya variety. If the Dorics carried U-152, there couldn't have been very many of them.

    Also, everything I understand about the Indo-European migrations, the yDna lineages connected to them, and the development of the Indo-European languages tells me that U-152 is intimately associated with the proto-Italo-Celtic language group, and that the hot-spot for the speakers of this language group and this yDna was in Central Europe. Greek language speakers are separate.

    Therefore, if the Dorics carried U152, I don't see how they could originally have been Greek speakers.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  11. #61
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Hi i'm restarting this topic because i just got tested as R-L2, i was wondering what is the actual hypothesis about is emergence, hallstat or la tène or north of italy ? I'm from switzerland and as far as i know my father family come from the french part of it, in the alps. Also, how can discover wich particular downstream of R-L2 i'm ? With GEDmatch ?

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1a2a1a2b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1n

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    I am romanian from Transilvania - I have U-152 L2 Z49 -

  13. #63
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-FGC13617
    MtDNA haplogroup
    T2b1

    Ethnic group
    European
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    Halfalp, welcome to R1b-L2.
    You can purchase the R1b-L2 SNP Pack from FTDNA or the R1b-U152 Superclade Panel from Yseq. However, the most comprehensive test is Full Genome Corporation (FGC) Y Elite test followed by FTDNA's BigY test.

    https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=38288


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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-FGC13617
    MtDNA haplogroup
    T2b1

    Ethnic group
    European
    Country: Greece



    I am R1b>L2>FGC13617>FGC13619 from the Ionian island of Corfu.

    There are only two other DNA kits that match my haplogroup (FGC13619). The Cognevich (Konjevic) family from Sutorina in Montenegro and the Antic family from South-East Serbia. All three families are from the Balkans.

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    Hey Dorianfinder, I noticed other posts you made which show you have a bunch of the calculators. Do you have the Eurogenes K13 and K15v2 by any chance? I have been looking all over for them. Do you have the oracle files for those also? Thanks in advance!

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    Ancestry, I am not involved with the development of ancestry calculators anymore but I'm sure that you can access the information on gedmatch. The calculators you are looking for are available with links to their developers.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Hi everybody!

    I'm Swiss with a known paternal origin in the Grisons region, and I recently tested as R-L2+, Z49-, Z367- .

    I don't know a lot about my ancient ancestry, but I suppose my father's family has been in southeastern Switzerland for centuries, does a R-L2 map actually exist (as of 2019) somewhere as it is for U-152?

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    I recently took the NG Geno 2.0 test. It classified me as a 98% "southern indian" (which is correct). But my parental lineage is listed as R-L144. With U152->L2->L20. Almost all people with this are in Europe. How come somebody like me from South of India end up with this haplogroup ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SamZane View Post
    Hi everybody!

    I'm Swiss with a known paternal origin in the Grisons region, and I recently tested as R-L2+, Z49-, Z367- .

    I don't know a lot about my ancient ancestry, but I suppose my father's family has been in southeastern Switzerland for centuries, does a R-L2 map actually exist (as of 2019) somewhere as it is for U-152?
    Hello fellow Swiss R1b-L2. :) I'm not sure about a map of R1b-L2 specifically. A general map of R1b-S28/U152 might been in the range of the distribution of L2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sumikiruba View Post
    I recently took the NG Geno 2.0 test. It classified me as a 98% "southern indian" (which is correct). But my parental lineage is listed as R-L144. With U152->L2->L20. Almost all people with this are in Europe. How come somebody like me from South of India end up with this haplogroup ?
    Well the likely hypothesis is that one of your forefather is from recent European descent. As far as R1b-L2 i think it's very very unlikely we are speaking of a prehistoric link.

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    Is the 2% European?

    Reasonable chance that there is a paternal ancestor from Britain circa 18th cent.

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    Thanks Dorianfinder and Halfalp.. that was my suspicion as well.. as we were a English colony and have lived close to a French outpost as well. It must be > 2 or 3 generations earlier.. as I look like a typical south Indian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorianfinder View Post
    Is the 2% European?

    Reasonable chance that there is a paternal ancestor from Britain circa 18th cent.

    Sent from my BND-L21 using Tapatalk
    Is there a way Nat Geo can provide such details ? I dont see that in my report.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sumikiruba View Post
    Is there a way Nat Geo can provide such details ? I dont see that in my report.
    Geno 2.0 apparently have way less autosomal SNP's compared for exemple with 23andme ( that's what a google post from 2014 says, it could have changed ). You should go on this thread " https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...d-contemporary " and aks if your Geno 2.0 kit can be upload on the Gedmatch calculator, it's a free online calculator with different types of admixture calculators fitting for a different range of ethnicities. If your Geno 2.0 kit cannot be upload on Gedmatch, i guess your best match is to purchased a new test for exemple with 23andme ( it cost 99$ ) and it gonna probably show you your exact European origin. After that you can also play with your 23andme kit on the Gedmatch calculator and found a lot of little details about your ancestry.

    It is with Gedmatch that i discovered that my 1% of Balkans ancestry from my 23andme test, was likely from Serbia.

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    Level
    1
    Points: 75, Level: 1
    Level completed: 25%, Points required for next Level: 75
    Overall activity: 3.0%


    Country: USA - California



    Halfalp, thx. Gedmatch does not like the Geno 2.0 csv. I will give 23andme a try.

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