Kosovo

[Marko94]

@Marko
What are you trying to say? That all censuses were wrong?
Go read for yourself. There are data from medieval Serbia, Turks, Austrians, etc. All is transparent. In 14th century there was almost no Albanians on Kosovo, only 3 settlements. Serb were majority until 17th century. Situation got out of control in period 1961-1981, when number of Albanians on Kosovo doubled. How did it happen? Was it the enormous birth rate, like nowhere in the world, or was it combined with Albanian immigrant, it doesn't really matter. What matters is, that it doesn't give someone right to pester and terrorize other people, especially when they're being nice to you.

Anything that concerns immigration of Albanians is well documented.
Since the year 1200 when Charles 1 of naples conquered the coasts of Albania (and part of Montenegro) and imported Albanians (at that time called arbaresh) in southern Italy until 1991 \ 1992 the great migrations.
I would like to ask you a question.
If you come to Italy and i'll show you a census done in an era where everything was fake and controlled by the Mafia you believe it?
the world is manipulated and nobody know the truth.
If you go to albania and you tell him "I do see the census of how many Serbs are there?"
I'll give them, but is a fake census.
I am an objective person, i have no problem saying that "the albanian government is mafia" as i have no problem saying that "the serbian government is mafia".
I do not have problem to say "uck are killer and is mafia".
Because i know the right.
As long as you do take nationalism, you can not have a dialogue.

 

[Garrick]

Yeah, there was too much goodness and we could not take it any more. How can someone turn against something as sublime as this (a refresher): Systematic Serbism http://www.eurotopics.net/en/home/pr...ck_geschichte/

The years following the abolition of the province autonomy were characterised by systematic "Serbism”. All schools, for example, were required to teach the Serbian curriculum; Kosovo Albanian doctors and nursing staff in public hospitals were fired. Thousands of Kosovo Albanians in other fields suffered the same fate unless they were prepared to declare their loyalty to Serbia in writing. As a result all Serbian institutions were boycotted by the Kosovo Albanians, who began building a parallel underground school and health system (mostly in private homes). Daily police terror caused great insecurity and fear amongst the Kosovo Albanians.

How many there are minorities in the world that were in far worse situation, but they didn't make armed rebellion. According to you Serbs and Montenegrins in Albania, Copts in Egypt, Kurds in Turkey end so on, end so on, should do so. Conditions for many minorities are much more difficult than problems Albanians in Serbia nineties.

I can agree that there were problems. And you can see that I'm not a supporter of president Milosevic. But all the problems, I think those were objective, not the Albanian propaganda, could be resolved, perhaps even relatively quickly, in the institutions of the system. Even, outside of the system passive resistance could have its effects. But no armed rebellion, which absolutely as a way of solving problems is unacceptable.

The world would be chaos if every minority go into armed rebellion and wants to secede from the state. It would be thousand of state in the world and conflicts. Therefore Kosovo is not recognized by the UN. Many countries would have their Kosovo and armed rebellions in the world would be all over the world.

Albanians voting rights were not denied. As soon as the someone has voting right he or she is not in particularly bad situation, for example in Syria people do not have voting rights.

Albanians could vote in elections as citizens of Serbia, large number of Albanian voters in elections meant a large number of Albanian representatives in the Parliament of Serbia. Albanian representatives together with members of Serbian democratic parties could have a majority in Serbian Parliament. And Albanians could be members of Government of Republic of Serbia. Likes as representatives of Turks are in the ruling coalition in Bulgaria, and some of Turks are members of the Bulgarian government. If Albanians 1992 went out in elections for the president of Serbia, possible that Mr. Panic would win Mr. Milosevic.

You can imagine how much it would be easier and better life for all that Albanians acted as responsible citizens. Armed rebellation is wrong and unacceptable approach of solving problems.

 

[Marko94]

I agree. It should have happened in 1945. but it was not possible. If it was up to Serbs, they'd probably take over the territories where they lived, and leave others part of Yugoslavia aside. What would happen then? Red Army would descent through parts of NDH down to Adriatic, and that was unacceptable to Britain. That's why they backed up Tito all the time, and that's why Yugoslavia was never a part of Warshaw pact.

When Tito died 1980. the plans for dividing Yugoslavia started to become reality. Albanians were the first to claim the parts of Yugoslavia. And it finally happened in 1991. After extensive preparations US and Germany managed to start a war here.

???
I'll tell you how it would end if Yugoslavia did not exist.
1) Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia, Bulgaria and fyrom enter in ussr.
2) The Albanians of Kosovo are rebelling because they want independence.
3) The communist government moves albanians in siberia and creates a regional just for them.
Finish it.
The Serbs had much of that luck.
From the ww1, ww2 and the war of yugoslavia you have been kissed by fortune.
Why?
1) Most Christians (Orthodox).
2) You were protected "faithfully" and "continuously" from russia.
If albania have committed your actions, now would not exist.
Why?
1) The majority are muslims.
2) No one defended them.
The serbia exists thanks to russia.
You know why Kosovo and Macedonia was gived to serbia?
Because russia wanted give to you.
In italy the war of yugoslavia is well taught, most of the cold war and the ww1.
I know so many things about war of yugoslavia.

 

[Marko94]

How many there are minorities in the world that were in far worse situation, but they didn't make armed rebellion. According to you Serbs and Montenegrins in Albania, Copts in Egypt, Kurds in Turkey end so on, end so on, should do so. Conditions for many minorities are much more difficult than problems Albanians in Serbia nineties.

I can agree that there were problems. And you can see that I'm not a supporter of president Milosevic. But all the problems, I think those were objective, not the Albanian propaganda, could be resolved, perhaps even relatively quickly, in the institutions of the system. Even, outside of the system passive resistance could have its effects. But no armed rebellion, which absolutely as a way of solving problems is unacceptable.

The world would be chaos if every minority go into armed rebellion and wants to secede from the state. It would be thousand of state in the world and conflicts. Therefore Kosovo is not recognized by the UN. Many countries would have their Kosovo and armed rebellions in the world would be all over the world.

Albanians voting rights were not denied. As soon as the someone has voting right he or she is not in particularly bad situation, for example in Syria people do not have voting rights.

Albanians could vote in elections as citizens of Serbia, large number of Albanian voters in elections meant a large number of Albanian representatives in the Parliament of Serbia. Albanian representatives together with members of Serbian democratic parties could have a majority in Serbian Parliament. And Albanians could be members of Government of Republic of Serbia. Likes as representatives of Turks are in the ruling coalition in Bulgaria, and some of Turks are members of the Bulgarian government. If Albanians 1992 went out in elections for the president of Serbia, possible that Mr. Panic would win Mr. Milosevic.

You can imagine how much it would be easier and better life for all that Albanians acted as responsible citizens. Armed rebellation is wrong and unacceptable approach of solving problems.

Ok, you have right.
But you wrong in a point.
This territory "called kosovo" whose is it?
Need to wait the answer.
The problem is that when you discover the answer could break another war.

 

[Garrick]

Don't confuse comunism albanian with comunism jugoslavia.
Comunism albanian is like comunism of north korea.
Everything that was in the Yugoslavian communism was buried.
Tito did not bring about "wars" between peoples.
When the killings were hiding this news.
Milosevic did see only the news that made them comfortable.
Milosevic has never been stupid (as they thought the Americans).
He knew that the weak point of the peoples of Eastern Europe is extreme nationalism.
Just see the match Croatia vs Serbia years 90'.
What I mean is that they all did the massacres.
The other ethnic groups (Albanian, Croatian and etc.) made ​​her secretly and small massacres.
The truth about Eastern peoples is that "there has never been a friendship or brotherhood".
The extreme nationalism will divide forever.
we Italians are not nationalists and we are objective.

I'm not Communist, but Yugoslav communism (correct to say self-managing socialism) had good points. For brotherhood and unity someone can say that it is phrase but it is fact that there was a quite a high level of tolerance among different nations, ant there were high standards the rights of minority. Contrary to communism in Albania which was similar in North Korea.

For East European and Balkans people is characteristic strong nationalism. Although there were nationalists of all colors in Yugoslavia, it were a lot of mixed marriages and began to appear new Yugoslav nation. However since the eighties nationalists of all nations in Yugoslavia began to strengthen again.

But the main story of the late eighties was related to money. Serbian, Croatian and Slovenian elites could not reach agreement on the economy, money and distribution of funds. Everyone wanted to deceive the other. The federal government has been undermined.

Yugoslav sad example is an indication of what is going on complex state when the money runs out. While there is money then love blooms. When problems with money encounter, result is extreme nationalism of all sides.

 

[Garrick]

Great, so we won. Nasty little devils, we managed to trick you and the all the Yugoslavia, nc nc nc. Hm when I come to think of it, we played the game quite well don't you think? And we managed without having and army, money, media machinery, Milosevic, Arkan, ....wow, we are going to take over the world with this smart! Thank you for all these compliments Ike. I have started to admire myself and all other Kosovar-Albaninas, we are clever, man!:cool-v:

You are greatly mistaken, don't get carried away.

In post #62 I explained what Albanians could do. And it could be winning combination for all people, including Albanians.

 

[Ike]

Anything that concerns immigration of Albanians is well documented.
Since the year 1200 when Charles 1 of naples conquered the coasts of Albania (and part of Montenegro) and imported Albanians (at that time called arbaresh) in southern Italy until 1991 \ 1992 the great migrations.
I would like to ask you a question.
If you come to Italy and i'll show you a census done in an era where everything was fake and controlled by the Mafia you believe it?
the world is manipulated and nobody know the truth.
If you go to albania and you tell him "I do see the census of how many Serbs are there?"
I'll give them, but is a fake census.
I am an objective person, i have no problem saying that "the albanian government is mafia" as i have no problem saying that "the serbian government is mafia".
I do not have problem to say "uck are killer and is mafia".
Because i know the right.
As long as you do take nationalism, you can not have a dialogue.

Yes but when Austrians say something, and Serbs say the same, and Ottomans say the same, and DNA analysis suggests the same, and all historical and written evidence on Kosovo suggest the same, I can't do else but to believe it. If it was just for the census, it could be doubtful, but when so many different sources claim something, we must take it as a fact. Do you have anything against those numbers? I;m always ready to reconsider that position, as long as I hear new data.

p.s. I'm gad you know Yugoslavia, and history. It's very positive thing, at least we can talk about it, unlike with Americans who are totally uninformed.

Yes I agree that Russia was partially on "our side". We share the same language, religion, ancestry and problems with Ottomans. Whenever it was in position Russia helped us, but don't forget that it helped all Balkan peoples, and that it also watched it's own interests. It fu..ed us up with San-Stefano Treaty. It secretly gave Bosnia and Herzegovina to Austro-Hungary, which eventually led to WW1. British and French fuc..ed us up twice, in 1856. when they helped Ottomans, and in 1876. when Russians were about to enter Istanbul.

Big powers play their games, and we are just thrown around. Just like Croatia, Montenegro, Albania close the gap between Italy and Greece and disable Serbia getting out on the Adriatic. Why else do you think Croatia looks like that? It's the same story as with Crimean war.

 

[FBS]

How many there are minorities in the world that were in far worse situation, but they didn't make armed rebellion. According to you Serbs and Montenegrins in Albania, Copts in Egypt, Kurds in Turkey end so on, end so on, should do so. Conditions for many minorities are much more difficult than problems Albanians in Serbia nineties.

I can agree that there were problems. And you can see that I'm not a supporter of president Milosevic. But all the problems, I think those were objective, not the Albanian propaganda, could be resolved, perhaps even relatively quickly, in the institutions of the system. Even, outside of the system passive resistance could have its effects. But no armed rebellion, which absolutely as a way of solving problems is unacceptable.

The world would be chaos if every minority go into armed rebellion and wants to secede from the state. It would be thousand of state in the world and conflicts. Therefore Kosovo is not recognized by the UN. Many countries would have their Kosovo and armed rebellions in the world would be all over the world.

Albanians voting rights were not denied. As soon as the someone has voting right he or she is not in particularly bad situation, for example in Syria people do not have voting rights.

Albanians could vote in elections as citizens of Serbia, large number of Albanian voters in elections meant a large number of Albanian representatives in the Parliament of Serbia. Albanian representatives together with members of Serbian democratic parties could have a majority in Serbian Parliament. And Albanians could be members of Government of Republic of Serbia. Likes as representatives of Turks are in the ruling coalition in Bulgaria, and some of Turks are members of the Bulgarian government. If Albanians 1992 went out in elections for the president of Serbia, possible that Mr. Panic would win Mr. Milosevic.

You can imagine how much it would be easier and better life for all that Albanians acted as responsible citizens. Armed rebellation is wrong and unacceptable approach of solving problems.

Ahhh, how nice of you being concerned about us. Thank you but no thanks, we can take care of ourselves. We do not need any Serb patronizing, we tried it but it was too painful and deadly. We have found new friends now that do not kill us and let us govern ourselves. And yes, we'd better be with them then with Serbia, I do not hear that Hong Kong regrets for not being part of China for a while. So stop playing this role of a wolf in sheep skin, we know it all too well we have tried it for centuries.

 

[FBS]

I'm not Communist, but Yugoslav communism (correct to say self-managing socialism) had good points. For brotherhood and unity someone can say that it is phrase but it is fact that there was a quite a high level of tolerance among different nations, ant there were high standards the rights of minority. Contrary to communism in Albania which was similar in North Korea.

For East European and Balkans people is characteristic strong nationalism. Although there were nationalists of all colors in Yugoslavia, it were a lot of mixed marriages and began to appear new Yugoslav nation.

Do I sense nostalgia here? Suddenly a song comes in my head: Gone Daddy gone, love is gone, away,gone away:innocent:....so wake up and face the reality.

 

[FBS]

Why would you raise yourself to the level of your employers? It's their achievement, not yours.You were just a pawns in someone else's game. And don't forget that - as they have used you against us, they will just as easily push you away, once they don't need you.

Thank you for your concern Ike. You are so nice, but you are forgeting one little something, we the devils used them (USA, EU,NATO, UN) against you, oh and I almost forgott, we made many babies over night.

 

[Marko94]

I'm not Communist, but Yugoslav communism (correct to say self-managing socialism) had good points. For brotherhood and unity someone can say that it is phrase but it is fact that there was a quite a high level of tolerance among different nations, ant there were high standards the rights of minority. Contrary to communism in Albania which was similar in North Korea.

For East European and Balkans people is characteristic strong nationalism. Although there were nationalists of all colors in Yugoslavia, it were a lot of mixed marriages and began to appear new Yugoslav nation. However since the eighties nationalists of all nations in Yugoslavia began to strengthen again.

But the main story of the late eighties was related to money. Serbian, Croatian and Slovenian elites could not reach agreement on the economy, money and distribution of funds. Everyone wanted to deceive the other. The federal government has been undermined.

Yugoslav sad example is an indication of what is going on complex state when the money runs out. While there is money then love blooms. When problems with money encounter, result is extreme nationalism of all sides.

If it is correct "For brotherhood and unity someone can say that it is phrase but it is fact that there was a quite a high level of tolerance among" now there would have been no war and right now you'd slavs united against the albanians.Your problem is that "you live in a country of second world and you don't know rlly right"
If there was true tolerance among you, now there would be no hate ........ what you called "tolerance" or "slavic unity" are just nice words.
Yugoslavia was a communist, but was very soft.
In communist albania all minorities had no rights and that you are right, but also the albanians had no rights.
In Yugoslavia you could talk about your religion without problems, but in albania nobody can you speak about religion.
Even if you were Catholic, Orthodox or Muslim you could not speak of your religion.
The interviews were made to the Italian grew up in communist albania said that "Communism was terrible, we were not allowed anything, from speaking in italian to try to get out from albania" and "But we were all on the same level, even the slbanian had rights. "

P.S i don't say to you "you are comunist".

 

[Marko94]

Yes but when Austrians say something, and Serbs say the same, and Ottomans say the same, and DNA analysis suggests the same, and all historical and written evidence on Kosovo suggest the same, I can't do else but to believe it. If it was just for the census, it could be doubtful, but when so many different sources claim something, we must take it as a fact. Do you have anything against those numbers? I;m always ready to reconsider that position, as long as I hear new data.

p.s. I'm gad you know Yugoslavia, and history. It's very positive thing, at least we can talk about it, unlike with Americans who are totally uninformed.

Yes I agree that Russia was partially on "our side". We share the same language, religion, ancestry and problems with Ottomans. Whenever it was in position Russia helped us, but don't forget that it helped all Balkan peoples, and that it also watched it's own interests. It fu..ed us up with San-Stefano Treaty. It secretly gave Bosnia and Herzegovina to Austro-Hungary, which eventually led to WW1. British and French fuc..ed us up twice, in 1856. when they helped Ottomans, and in 1876. when Russians were about to enter Istanbul.

Big powers play their games, and we are just thrown around. Just like Croatia, Montenegro, Albania close the gap between Italy and Greece and disable Serbia getting out on the Adriatic. Why else do you think Croatia looks like that? It's the same story as with Crimean war.

Yea, you have right.
Your source say that "In Croatia there have never been Italian".
Accordin to "ALL THREAD OF EUPEDIA AND ALL SITE OF THIS WORLD" nobody confirmed kosovo are of slavs or slavs stay before of albanians.
And in a post in eupedia are writed "e-v13 stay in europe from paleolitich" or wrong?
If you don't know ottoman hated albanians and greek.
Source austrian don't are correct, because are possible operated.The society Slavic in Austro-Hungarian empire was important and strong.
Is incredible, now "believe in source" but on albania don't believe.
In library of vatican are writet "Skanderbeg (i don't know how is write) was arbaresh" but now is questioned by many people.
Don't is confirmed just by vatican.
I think, when find a collegament with albanian all say "is fake", or when find a collegament with slavs (collegament dream like vinca culture)all to say "is right"!
WTF? LOL.
You can not do only affidamente on DNA, because it is not always correct (i know the e-v13 stay in europe since the paleolithic or i have wrong? and even the greeks have e-v13?).
The DNA and linguistics must be connected.

I want to ask two questions.


1) If the great powers had decided to take Albania, Kosovo, Macedonia and Bosnia as colonies of you who would you have done? Did you go to kill all the royal families? LOL.


2) According to the texts of the Venetian Empire, in venetian albania (venetian albania included the coast of Montenegro and a bit of the center) only the Albanians lived there before 1700. Do you think need give Montenegro to Albania??

 

[Garrick]

Do I sense nostalgia here? Suddenly a song comes in my head: Gone Daddy gone, love is gone, away,gone away....so wake up and face the reality.

No nostalgia. I’m not old man. Yes, I know that Yugoslav socialist self-managing system was no democratic. And I could list the objections that system by tomorrow morning. But Yugoslav and Serbian communists had good points, for example they didn’t like hardline nationalists all of color. Yes, Yugoslavia is no more, but you can ask people from Triglav to Gevgelia, when they had a better life, in Yugoslavia or now, and when you would see results, maybe you would be surprised with the numbers of responses in favor of Yugoslavia.

Yugoslav and Serbian communists wanted good relations with Albanian communists. But, what’s happened? Albanian communist leaders took the side of Stalin, 1948. From Albania came direct support Albanian cells in Serbia, Montenegro and Macedonia to act against federal Yugoslav government and governments of republics. Albania has directly interfered in matters of neighboring country and made rebellion (which is nothing unusual, undermining neighboring state has happened whenever Albania could act). And what Yugoslav and Serbian government could do? Yugoslav and Serbian government had prevented the rebellion. Albanians in Yugoslavia were performed rebellion on behalf of Enver Hoxha and Stalin, and were defeated. Now Albanians say that Tito, Rankovic and other communist cadres had a strong hand. And which government in any country in the world would be did differently.

But Albanians don’t like to say about billions of dollars which Serbian and federal Yugoslavian government invested in areas mostly inhabited of Albanians. There are few examples in the world that regions inhabited by minority receive so much funding. But it is helped progress. Albanians in Serbia and other parts of Yugoslavia lived much much better than Albanians in Albania. And these are facts. And I said, for Albanians Serbian communists were like Angels.

 

[Garrick]

TI almost forgott, we made many babies over night.

Albanian demographers thought thirty years ago that AP Kosovo in Serbia will have about 2,5 million Albanians, about 800,000 Albanians in Macedonia (former Yugoslav republic), and about 4 millions in Albania. They looked the birth rate and multiplied.

You can see the data:
AP Kosovo 1981: 1,227,736 (77.4%) Albanians; 2011: 1,616,869 (93%) Albanians; 2011 religion of total Kosovo population: 95.60% Muslims, 3.69% Christians
Republic of Macedonia 1981: 377,726 (19.8%) Albanians; 2002: 509,083 (25.2%) Albanians
Albania 1989: 3,111,601 (98.0%) Albanians, 2011: 2,312,356 (82.6%) Albanians

Today in Balkans there are less Albanians (4,438,308) than 2-3 decades before (4,717,063). I didn’t count for Montenegro but it would not much changed calculation.

Why did Albanian demographers make huge mistake? Yes Albanians still have more children than other people in Balkans (but differences are less than before). The point is economic migration to other countries (west Europe, America, Asia…). And for Kosovo numbers are probably less due to participation the diaspora in census (but it doesn’t matter, I included the official data). Today Albanians, especially young Albanians are in big numbers out of Balkans. Since the economy sank.

Irish time wrote that youth unemployment in Kosovo these days is 73 per cent:
http://www.presseurop.eu/en/content/article/1777921-kosovo-s-demographic-time-bomb

In time of SFR Yugoslavia and SR Serbia it was much much better, Albanians were much less migrant workers. But it was the time when Yugoslav and Serbian funds were extraordinary generous. Today these funds are gone. And companies that Serbia widely invested and opened in area with majority Albanian population, and which were profitable and big backbone of development, today are mostly extinguished.

 

[Ike]

Thank you for your concern Ike. You are so nice, but you are forgeting one little something, we the devils used them (USA, EU,NATO, UN) against you, oh and I almost forgott, we made many babies over night.

LoL. You and I are we. And we can never be them

 

[Garrick]

If it is correct "For brotherhood and unity someone can say that it is phrase but it is fact that there was a quite a high level of tolerance among" now there would have been no war and right now you'd slavs united against the albanians.Your problem is that "you live in a country of second world and you don't know rlly right"
If there was true tolerance among you, now there would be no hate ........ what you called "tolerance" or "slavic unity" are just nice words.
Yugoslavia was a communist, but was very soft."

Yes, I agree with you. You know for the absurd, senseless and strong hatred between Croats and Serbs, whose DNA analysis showed that they are very very similar and practically speaking the same language. Of course, there are many reasons for it, and they are partly due to external influences and there are reasons of religion. Communists congratulations, they were significantly reduced hatred and raised tolerance threshold. There were many mixed marriages and children from these marriages were conducted as Yugoslavs. At one point it seemed that instead of the smaller nations communists created great Yugoslav nation since the number of Yugoslavs significantly increased. Someone in Europe could continue acting to increase the level of tolerance between Serbs and Croats, not necessarily brotherhood and unity, but at least mutual respect. Today in this regard is a bad situation, because hatred strong.

As for the Bosniacs, problems are actually the same complex. Islam puts faith in front of the nation, the first someone is a Muslim, the Islamic Umma community is a community of Muslims, of whatever nation or race or what language they spoke. Muslim Bosnia are closer for example Muslim from Morocco or Indonesia, but a neighbor who is a Serb or a Croat. Islamic Declaration by Alija Izetbegovic meant promoted the establishment of an Islamic order in Bosnia. All non-Muslims in Bosnia, Serbs and Croats, they would became citizens second order in Muslim State. During the socialism communist brotherhood and unity contributed to good relations between all the peoples of Bosnia (for example Alija Izetbegovic was in prison for enemy propaganda). Bosnia was perhaps the greater success brotherhood and unity policy in communist period.

Yet the key are good relations between Croats and Serbs. But here it is no topic and I will not far about it. Naturally, the Albanians are not in group Yugoslav nations, they did not have republic, they were a minority who lived in Yugoslavia, respectively in Serbia, Montenegro and Macedonia. And DNA analysis showed that the Geg Albanians are different from all the nations of the former Yugoslavia and in general of all the peoples of the Balkans.

 

[FBS]

Albanian demographers thought thirty years ago that AP Kosovo in Serbia will have about 2,5 million Albanians, about 800,000 Albanians in Macedonia (former Yugoslav republic), and about 4 millions in Albania. They looked the birth rate and multiplied.

You can see the data:
AP Kosovo 1981: 1,227,736 (77.4%) Albanians; 2011: 1,616,869 (93%) Albanians; 2011 religion of total Kosovo population: 95.60% Muslims, 3.69% Christians
Republic of Macedonia 1981: 377,726 (19.8%) Albanians; 2002: 509,083 (25.2%) Albanians
Albania 1989: 3,111,601 (98.0%) Albanians, 2011: 2,312,356 (82.6%) Albanians

Today in Balkans there are less Albanians (4,438,308) than 2-3 decades before (4,717,063). I didn’t count for Montenegro but it would not much changed calculation.

Why did Albanian demographers make huge mistake? Yes Albanians still have more children than other people in Balkans (but differences are less than before). The point is economic migration to other countries (west Europe, America, Asia…). And for Kosovo numbers are probably less due to participation the diaspora in census (but it doesn’t matter, I included the official data). Today Albanians, especially young Albanians are in big numbers out of Balkans. Since the economy sank.

Irish time wrote that youth unemployment in Kosovo these days is 73 per cent:
http://www.presseurop.eu/en/content/article/1777921-kosovo-s-demographic-time-bomb

In time of SFR Yugoslavia and SR Serbia it was much much better, Albanians were much less migrant workers. But it was the time when Yugoslav and Serbian funds were extraordinary generous. Today these funds are gone. And companies that Serbia widely invested and opened in area with majority Albanian population, and which were profitable and big backbone of development, today are mostly extinguished.

And your point is?

 

[FBS]

Kosovo thanks all the countries that have recognized its statehood http://www.kosovothanksyou.com/. Thank you all.

 

[FBS]

There are Serbs who realize the reality and accept the facts, so there is hope:

I am so happy & proud to see independent & free KOSOVA!!! You have my full support!!! Best wishes & regards to all of you!

Dragan, Belgrade, Serbia, May 5, 2009
Copied from this: http://www.kosovothanksyou.com/messages/

 

[Ike]

Yea, you have right.
1. Your source say that "In Croatia there have never been Italian".

2. Accordin to "ALL THREAD OF EUPEDIA AND ALL SITE OF THIS WORLD" nobody confirmed kosovo are of slavs or slavs stay before of albanians.
And in a post in eupedia are writed "e-v13 stay in europe from paleolitich" or wrong?

3. If you don't know ottoman hated albanians and greek.

4. Source austrian don't are correct, because are possible operated.The society Slavic in Austro-Hungarian empire was important and strong.
Is incredible, now "believe in source" but on albania don't believe.

5.In library of vatican are writet "Skanderbeg (i don't know how is write) was arbaresh" but now is questioned by many people.
Don't is confirmed just by vatican.
I think, when find a collegament with albanian all say "is fake", or when find a collegament with slavs (collegament dream like vinca culture)all to say "is right"!
WTF? LOL.

6. You can not do only affidamente on DNA, because it is not always correct (i know the e-v13 stay in europe since the paleolithic or i have wrong? and even the greeks have e-v13?).
The DNA and linguistics must be connected.

I want to ask two questions.


1) If the great powers had decided to take Albania, Kosovo, Macedonia and Bosnia as colonies of you who would you have done? Did you go to kill all the royal families? LOL.


2) According to the texts of the Venetian Empire, in venetian albania (venetian albania included the coast of Montenegro and a bit of the center) only the Albanians lived there before 1700. Do you think need give Montenegro to Albania??

1. It depends what you have read. Todays country of Croatia consists of Dalmatia, Croatia and Slavonia. You could have easily read that there was no Italians in that Croatia, while they may have been in Dalmatia (which wasn't mentioned).

It is also questionable what is Croatia and who are Italians. If you consider Croatia as a state, it never existed before 1991 (disregarding Hitler's NDH) so there couldn't be any Italians throughout the history in Croatia, because there was no state of Croatia. So, you have to be very careful about details when you read. There are lot of malicious writers

2. It doesn't matter who was there first in Paleolithic. DNA analysis say what they say about E-V13 on Kosovo.
FBS himself said that:"It means that the Albanian and the Kosovan populations expanded quite recently from a much smaller source population." It even concurs with everything censuses say. E-V13 population is uniformly spread across Southern-Eastern Europe, but they have just one peak on Kosovo. It is yet to be explained. They even may have nothing to do with Albanians. That's a real possibility. It could have happened that Balkan gypsies of Hg H started talking Albanian 400 years ago. If they populated fast, you'd have 60 % of Albanian speakers being of H origin now. Would that mean that Albanians are originally Indians? Of course not.

3. I know. I think that hatred between Albanians and other nations started because of the religion. People in Balkans just dislike Muslims, because of experience with Ottomans.

4. There are disagreements about numbers, but tendencies of numbers are clear. Well, Albanians could say that all other census were fraud, but I give it a low probability, especially when Kosovo is concerned. I don't see the reason why Ottomans and Austro-Hungary would lie about number of Albanians when it's clear that they both felt greater animosity towards Serbs, which always stood on their paths of imperial expanision.

It is questionable what Albanians felt about themselves at that times. Some Serbian sources from times of our uprising, mention that there have been made attempts to inspire Balkan Albanians to revolt, but that they were too primitive, not interested in politics, and having no clear idea of national identity. I wonder what other sources say about this. Italians could know something about that subject.

South of Yugoslavia was almost without exception a very regressive and conservative, and we even had problems with that in communist Yugoslavia. Most developed regions like Slovenia and northern Croatia, always objected because so much state money was going for Macedonia, Kosovo and Montenegro.

5. It's the same question as with Alexander the Great. He was a great leader, and everyone would like him to be "theirs". Well it can't be what anyone says, but what DNA says. I personally think he was both Albanian and Serbian, but it wouldn't surprise me if he of was Montenegrin, Greek, Italian or Moroccan descent. Everything is possible.

6. Yes, I agree. DNA research shows undoubtable results, but interpretations may differ. All theories must be supported with archaeological and other research. No final statements before that.

1) Did I understand correctly? If all that territories were given to Serbia now?

2) http://albania.terkepek.net/albania-terkep.jpg
Well, there is a natural border. You can see green part of Albania near the sea, and that's where real we have Hg J majority. You see green Kosovo upwards, and that's where we have Hg E majority. We see on the west part of Kosovo mountains rising up to more than 2,5 km and that's where we have Hg I majority.
I could believe that there was J majority on the Adriatic shore,around Skadar lake, but you'll have to take it wuth Montenegrings (and I guess they will not be very nice). Montenegrins are almost insane about their heredity (almost like Jews) and they keep their records for several hundreds years back at least. Anyway DNA analysis of the cemeteries can be conducted. It's easy to find corpses from 17th century, so answering that will not be a big deal.

You would also have to reconcile that theory with Serbian version, and (for Kosovo) to explain why are there so many Serbian churches, monasteries, Cyrillic scripts, and so much referral to Kosovo in Serbian culture.