What is the Origin and History of I1 M253

You know that almost all of Scandinavia did not begin to farm till the bronze and iron age so that definitely does not explain around 40% I1 in areas of Scandinavia that were not farming in the Neolithic age. You should look at this websites I1 page even they disagree and say in Scandnavia it came with maybe the earliest human settlement, plus it did even originate in Scandinavia it originated in continental Europe probably central probably in the Palaeolithic age. I am kind of sick about arguing the obvious. There is no way I1 spread in Scandinavia during the Neolithic, copper, or bronze age it probably came before N1c1c and with the first human settlement in Scandinavia. That does not mean that it originated in Scandinavia is definitely originated in continental Europe probably central. Just wait till we have the ancient DNA and new info comes in.

That farming arrived in Scandinavia from continental Europe at the same time I1 begins to expand from continental Europe, I think, is no coincidence. Scandinavia was likely sparsely populated then, which would for the relatively high frequency of I1 there today. You're sick about arguing the obvious? You must possess the thickest skull that could possibly cluster with AMH such that insulting you wouldn't even register.
 
The "founders" basically lived in an area roughly from Gotland in the German Sea to the area now known as the Crimea. The boats were first made with twisted hemp smeared with pitch, and they lived by carrying Mediterranean goods to Europe and Eurasian goods, including slaves, to the Mediterranean. At the time I chose for my novelistic approach to the question, it was the transition to Ottoman rule from Roman rule that characterized the area, but I suspect that archaeologists will someday find evidence that the Dniepper was used for long-distance transport 10,000 years ago, when the first I haploclads were expanding from their origin spots in the Caucasus, and things like furs, ivory and gems found their origin in trading posts manned by I clad people and transported in boats crewed by the same.
 
I know this presumes a lot, but when you see the extreme fineness of "Chalcolithic" goods as exemplified by Native American workmanship, assuming this "newer" clad was roughly of that group, then it starts to make sense. Just because wealth is extracted from animals, for the most part, and doesn't involve the manufacture of iron implements, doesn't exclude high skills where boat making and other such tasks are concerned.
 
I have an interesting combination that may be of interest to you and this group...

It looks like all the major haplogroups in Europe underwent rapid neolithic expansion, not just I1, which I think is consistent with a change in lifestyle or better farming and pastoralism, not necessarily better reproductive fitness or extermination of other groups. These haplogroups just happened to be borne by those who were really good at feeding large families. In this context, once the technological/economic playing field was leveled in Europe, the frequencies of the haplogroups became essentially fixed as population growth becomes approximately equal. It would be interesting to find data suggesting any one haplogroup is expanding at the expense of another in the modern era. When you say age, do you mean time of divergence from I or TMRCA of all I1-bearing men today? Those are two very different numbers.

I have an interesting combination that may be of interest to you and this group; that is, I-M253 and X2b. Get the picture? The paternal line appears to be protogroup for those that later went up the Dnieper and down the Duna to colonize the lands around the German Sea, and the maternal haplogroup appears to the one that split in two at the same geographical location that gave rise to I-M253, and was carried by persons (Vikings?) all the way to the Midwest of the United States. Like they say, "Can't make this stuff up."
 
My ancestors were Norman English and came to Virginia in the mid 1600's. Then south to Georgia and Alabama. There are many English people in the south and southern Appalachia. Maybe that I1 came south and along the eastern seaboard and the Appalachians with these Norman English, as mine did.
 
The Normans had a lot of I1 did they not? Many Norman derived English settled Virginia and the eastern seaboard, most moved south and into the Appalachians. Could that be who you are pertaining too?
 
It doesn’t seem like its been posted but there is some major news for I1 and might be very relevant to the history of I1. The oldest I1 appears in Mesolithic Scandinavia according to the Y snp calls done by Genetiker in Stora Karlösa, Sweden; dating from 7073-6810 BC in the Mesolithic Scandinavian paper that was released earlier this month.

https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2018/01/10/y-snp-calls-from-mesolithic-scandinavia/#comments

I’m not sure if I’m reading it right but I1-DF29-Z58-Z59-CTS8747-Z60-Z140-Z141-Y6231-Y7277-Y7278-Y7398 is in bold. Does this mean that this sample dated 7073-6810 BC was positive for all of those I1a snps? Wouldn’t that mean that the TMRCAs of the current I1 phylogenetic tree are way off?
 
I’m not sure if I’m reading it right but I1-DF29-Z58-Z59-CTS8747-Z60-Z140-Z141-Y6231-Y7277-Y7278-Y7398 is in bold. Does this mean that this sample dated 7073-6810 BC was positive for all of those I1a snps? Wouldn’t that mean that the TMRCAs of the current I1 phylogenetic tree are way off?

No it doesn’t mean that the sample is positive for all those snps bolded, its too old for it to be any of current TMRCA of I1 subclades, he’s just simply I1-M253, which is still relevant because the ancestor of all I1 branches has been found.
 
No it doesn’t mean that the sample is positive for all those snps bolded, its too old for it to be any of current TMRCA of I1 subclades, he’s just simply I1-M253, which is still relevant because the ancestor of all I1 branches has been found.

Why was that one line of snps in bold while the other ones weren’t? Also, was this sample positive for all 302 snps associated with I1?
 
Why was that one line of snps in bold while the other ones weren’t? Also, was this sample positive for all 302 snps associated with I1?

For that you would need to ask Genetiker himself, he posts here every once in awhile. My understanding is that sample cannot be that specific clade because he is not positive for the ones above. I don’t think so but the sample was positive for a number of them, the TMRCA of all I1 carriers is 4600 ybp or 2600 BC, this individual is much before that date.
 
For that you would need to ask Genetiker himself, he posts here every once in awhile. My understanding is that sample cannot be that specific clade because he is not positive for the ones above. I don’t think so but the sample was positive for a number of them, the TMRCA of all I1 carriers is 4600 ybp or 2600 BC, this individual is much before that date.

About 5000 years prior to the TMRCA. Perhaps the ancestors of Mr. DF29 were in Scandinavia shortly after the last ice age as opposed to entering with Corded Ware. Who knows!
 
About 5000 years prior to the TMRCA. Perhaps the ancestors of Mr. DF29 were in Scandinavia shortly after the last ice age as opposed to entering with Corded Ware. Who knows!

That is a very plausible scenario! Actually seems to potentially be the case, the sample should be sent to Yfull to see if he’s ancestral to all I1 carriers.
 
Correlation does not imply causation but the I1 bottle neck and the Storegga Slide occurred roughly within the same ballpark time frame. Perhaps they were Doggerlandians (Doggerlandites?).

 

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