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Thread: New distribution map of Y-haplogroup E-M81

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    4 out of 4 members found this post helpful.

    Arrow New distribution map of Y-haplogroup E-M81

    A lot of people had been asking for it. Here it is. I have also updated the whole page about haplogroup E1b1b in the last 3 days.



    Compare it with the map of autosomal African admixture. The resemblance is striking, especially in Iberia and Italy.




    UPDATE :

    I believe that E-M81 reached Iberia sometime between 15,000 and 5,000 BCE. Its heavy concentration in western Iberia and its fading towards France and Britain are probable signs that E-M81 spread eastward during the Beaker period (along with other E subclades, G2a, I2a and possibly J1 and J2). R1b would have come in the opposite direction from Germany during the Late Beaker period and first settled in eastern Iberia, notably with the El Argar culture, then progressively move westward during the Bronze Age.
    Last edited by Maciamo; 29-09-13 at 16:59.
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    Great map, maybe a map of E-V13 would be useful as well.

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    I believe there is already a map of E-V13 on this website : )

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    I believe there is already a map of E-V13 on this website : )
    No, it's all E1b1b. Take out M81 and you get mostly E-V13 in Europe.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    That dot in North Spain, is that 30-40 or 40-50?
    And whats the study or story behind that;

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    So this comes as no surprise, the berberid E-M81 that has frequency peaks in Moroccan and Tunisian (also most Algerian E) Berber populations has a European peak on the Iberian peninsula; in southern Portugal and across parts of Spain, to be more precise. There is also a slightly higher frequency in certain parts of Sicily than in the rest of Europe, albeit, not nearly as high as Portugal and Spain's frequencies. So, this same E-M81 marker, found identically in certain west north-African and west Mediterranean populations, reaches frequency peaks of 85% of Morrocan males and Similarly high frequencies in Tunisians (60-75%) and very high % in Algeria as well (45-50% I believe). In Europe, Spain and Portugal have about 15% E-M81 on a national level; a small but present element.

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    Map shows parts of Bulgaria as being in the 5%-10% zone. Change this. Out of 808 tasted Bulgarians only 1 is E-M81, out of the other studies none,as far as I know, lets be positive about it still 1% is an ultimate maximum. Why do u try to portrait us in fake light?? E-M81 in Bulgaria is between 0.5%-1%!End of story!Thanks :)
    Same goes for Serbia and Macedonia, Western Europeans trying to lie about us even in genetics. Please do not do this!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody1 View Post
    That dot in North Spain, is that 30-40 or 40-50?
    And whats the study or story behind that;
    Pasiegos from Cantabria.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaan View Post
    Map shows parts of Bulgaria as being in the 5%-10% zone. Change this. Out of 808 tasted Bulgarians only 1 is E-M81, out of the other studies none,as far as I know, lets be positive about it still 1% is an ultimate maximum. Why do u try to portrait us in fake light?? E-M81 in Bulgaria is between 0.5%-1%!End of story!Thanks :)
    Same goes for Serbia and Macedonia, Western Europeans trying to lie about us even in genetics. Please do not do this!!!!
    Where did you see that ? Bulgaria is in the 0% zone.

    Serbia has just 1% of M81. No data on Macedonia though.

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    The African admixture I defintley connected with E1b1b1b1a M81. I think that the E1b M81 in Italy and Greece came during Greco Roman age. A E1b1b V13 map would be good since it defintley mainly spread in Europe with farming about 9,000-6,000ybp and is in 7,000ybp farmer in north Spain. Do u think u could make maps of the Eurasia and Africa or is there not enough data. A Germanic Italo Celtic? R1b1a2a1a L11 map would be cool to see or Corded ware aka Balto Slavic R1a1a1b1 Z283. I guess the branch that went to Scandnavia today their language is extinct and has been for almost 4,000 years so it technically is nota a Balto Slavic lineage but it is from Corded ware culture. Also a Indo Iranian R1a1a1b2 Z93 or combined Indo European branch of R1a which would be all under R1a1a1 M417 or maybe R1a1a1b S224.

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    I wonder if mtDNA L and U6 are distributed in a similar way. I think the name African for a aust dna group is not good. Because what Africans are u talking about sub sahran Africans or north Africans two extremely different people. North Africans are in the Caucasian family with mid easterns and Europeans while sub sahran African I guess form their own family but I don't know for sure some are very unrelated to each other. It got so annoying when they were showing that with the mtDNA they have ancient Minoens were most related to Europeans and there were theory's before that they were from north Africa. And the study said the evidence was that they had no major African mtDNA L. It seems they ignore the huge difference between north Africans and sub sharan the reason why l will be maybe around 10-20% in north Africans is inter marriage with sub sahran Africans, Same reason they have Y DNA E. I don't understand so E1b1b1 M243 is the father of all North African and Eurasian E. Then E1b1b1a V68 is the father is all Eurasian E1b1b and I guess according to ur Eupedia's tree also in Egypt which would have been were Eurasian E1b1b came from. It seems E1b1b would have expanded in north Africa not 50,000ybp or whatever when mtDNA U6 came but more like 20,000-30,000ybp at the very most. Since E it self is from sub shara Africa it did not come with Caucasian migrations out of the mid east 50,000-40,000ybp. Were is the original Caucasian y DNA of north Africans is it Y DNA F or C is there any left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Where did you see that ? Bulgaria is in the 0% zone.

    Serbia has just 1% of M81. No data on Macedonia though.
    Well parts of Bulgaria are in the 1%-5% zone, which is simply not like this coz whole of Bulgaria should be in the 0%-1% zone,same goes for Serbia and Macedonia. Western Europeans and R1b supremacists try to make us what we are not, lets not do this here. Also I will be waiting for the E-V13 map,it would be so cool to see the Near East in the 2% zone and North Africa in the 0% zone, all R1b lies would be over then :)

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    I don't see the problem. From 1-5 % means it could be 1 percent.
    He should also not care for state borders, because these maps don't follow them. It's best to leave it to software.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaan View Post
    Well parts of Bulgaria are in the 1%-5% zone, which is simply not like this coz whole of Bulgaria should be in the 0%-1% zone,same goes for Serbia and Macedonia. Western Europeans and R1b supremacists try to make us what we are not, lets not do this here. Also I will be waiting for the E-V13 map,it would be so cool to see the Near East in the 2% zone and North Africa in the 0% zone, all R1b lies would be over then :)
    If you want to know why the Hazkovo province is in the 1-5% zone, check the study on Bulgaria by Karachanak et al. (the one you sent me). There is 2.4% of E-M81.

    Btw, do you realise that E-M81 is highest in Europe in R1b countries (France, Spain and Portugal) ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    If you want to know why the Hazkovo province is in the 1-5% zone, check the study on Bulgaria by Karachanak et al. (the one you sent me). There is 2.4% of E-M81.

    Btw, do you realise that E-M81 is highest in Europe in R1b countries (France, Spain and Portugal) ?
    There are only 41 people tasted in Haskovo provicne( and by Haskovo province they do not mean the actual Haskovo province but Haskovo province, Kardzhali provicne and Stara Zagora province). It is not important when u look at the whole study it is 1 out of 808 people. In all other studies there is no M81. I hope u do not have agenda against South Slavs, u also posted more for Serbs and Macedonians, but not for Croats!!!!!!!!!!!
    No surprise at all that Spain,France and Portugal have some of it :) Just like it is no surprise we have some T and J1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired View Post
    The African admixture I defintley connected with E1b1b1b1a M81. I think that the E1b M81 in Italy and Greece came during Greco Roman age. A E1b1b V13 map would be good since it defintley mainly spread in Europe with farming about 9,000-6,000ybp and is in 7,000ybp farmer in north Spain. Do u think u could make maps of the Eurasia and Africa or is there not enough data. A Germanic Italo Celtic? R1b1a2a1a L11 map would be cool to see or Corded ware aka Balto Slavic R1a1a1b1 Z283. I guess the branch that went to Scandnavia today their language is extinct and has been for almost 4,000 years so it technically is nota a Balto Slavic lineage but it is from Corded ware culture. Also a Indo Iranian R1a1a1b2 Z93 or combined Indo European branch of R1a which would be all under R1a1a1 M417 or maybe R1a1a1b S224.
    After the Numidians and Mauritanians swapped sides in the Rome .v. Hannibal wars, these north african people must have been used by the Romans against NE Iberia and the conquest of Gaul.

    These people where pre-Berber people ..........E-M81 !?
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    Thank you for these maps!

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    How did the Africans or Berbers haplogroup E-M81 got to Northern Europe, Finland and the Baltic? In the Neolithic or when, before with the Last Glacial Iberian Refugees expansion to the North? The Beaker folk? WHO were they? The Roman legions?How is it that it is determined or discarded the age of this Y-haplogroup and that the haplogroup is "too young" to have arrived in Europe before the Arab-Muslim Empire spread it?

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    What do you mean in Northern Europe? There is almost none in there.

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    I'm sorry, but your time frame does not correspond with the published scientific papers which discuss african admixture. African admixture in Southern Europe is dated 29 generations to 400AD, and assuming E-M81 arrived 15,000 years ago, it would have nothing to do with autosomal african admixture. 15,000 years ago is far to distant admixture to contribute any significant DNA in modern humans, aside from Y-DNA, which does not recombine.

    If E-M81 populations did contribute to the majority of the African component of autosomal European DNA then it occurred about 1500 years ago or 200-600AD.

    Here are the findings of Moorjani et al.

    The finding of African ancestry in Southern Europe dating to ~55 generations ago, or ~1,600 years ago assuming 29 years per generation, needs to be placed in historical context. The historical record documents multiple interactions of African and European populations over this period. One potential opportunity for African gene flow was during the period of Roman occupation of North Africa that lasted until the early 5th century AD, and indeed tomb inscriptions and literary references suggest that trade relations continued even after that time. North Africa was also a supplier of goods and products such as wine and olive oil to Italy, Spain and Gaul from 200–600 AD, and Morocco was a major manufacturer of the processed fish sauce condiment, garum, which was imported by Romans. In addition, there was slave trading across the western Sahara during Roman times. Another potential source of some of the African ancestry, especially in Spain and Portugal, is the invasion of Iberia by Moorish armies after 711 AD. If the Moors already had some African ancestry when they arrived in Southern Europe, and then admixed with Iberians, we would expect the admixture date to be older than the date of the invasion, as we observe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody1 View Post
    That dot in North Spain, is that 30-40 or 40-50?
    And whats the study or story behind that;
    the troops of the ancient garrisons of the Roman soldiers which kept the door of Pyrenees which forced later wisigoths and basques.

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    Quote Originally Posted by martiko View Post
    the troops of the ancient garrisons of the Roman soldiers which kept the door of Pyrenees which forced later wisigoths and basques.
    As Maciamo already answered me (post#8 / 24-09-13) the dot with the high E-M81 are the Pasiegos from Cantabria;

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by james stock View Post
    I'm sorry, but your time frame does not correspond with the published scientific papers which discuss african admixture. African admixture in Southern Europe is dated 29 generations to 400AD, and assuming E-M81 arrived 15,000 years ago, it would have nothing to do with autosomal african admixture. 15,000 years ago is far to distant admixture to contribute any significant DNA in modern humans, aside from Y-DNA, which does not recombine.

    If E-M81 populations did contribute to the majority of the African component of autosomal European DNA then it occurred about 1500 years ago or 200-600AD.

    Here are the findings of Moorjani et al.
    It's interesting how Moorjani et al's own calculations contradict some of their own claims. Even assuming that their calculations and the value they assigned for a "generation" (which is usually accepted as 30 or 35 years, not 29) are correct, that "African" ancestry in Europe still predates the existence of Islam itself, let alone any Islamic "invasions". Their dating, however, does indeed coincide with the late Roman period, another of their claims regarding how this ancestry entered Europe.

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    Yes, so HOW or/and WHEN did the "almost none" haplogroups from Africa got to the N.E. of Europe? Maybe "the North" of Europe (?) does not count.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    And if males Y-lines did enter in Europe all across, which female Mt-haplogroups did accompany it with, L or M or U or those in Iberia already? My mother matrilineal ancestry says V hg was originally coming to the north from Iberian Mesolithics, but E-M81 is originally from Egypt or Libya?! Did Canary islanders did the Thor Heyerdal Polynesian thing to the north?

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