New map of Red Sea (Horn of Africa) admixture

[silkyslovanbojkovsky]

Lol true....only a rare few tribes as the Boii migrated to northern Italy towards central Emilia-Romagna from the Germany/Czech region but overall there should be very little cluster between Italians and Slovaks; right off the bat 50% of men from both cultures are R1, the Italians being Celtic B and the Slovaks having Slavic A; in fact there is no excuse at all for this dramatic scenic iris misinterpretation lol. Slovaks defdinetly cluster with Russians Ukrainians Belorussians poles Czechs Slovenes more than they ever could with Italians.

yea that's what I would think, the only thing I could think of that possibly would connect Slovakia to Italy could maybe be some kind of Vallachian connection, though supposedly the original vlachs were not related to Italians but who knows. Though I do know quite a few Slovaks who look exactly like Italians. My father looks like he could be al pacinos cousin lol :)

[Alexandros]

Great map! Thanks! Before I saw this map, I had identified the Red Sea component with the Arab expansion, but it does not seem to be the case..

[Twilight]

I hope this is not true. I makes me very sad to be italian.

Just because you are Italian with haplogroup E ancestry doesn't make you African American, heck you might have distant ancestors who were in the cutting edge of farming thanks to the Neolithic. :)

[silkyslovanbojkovsky]

I hope this is not true. I makes me very sad to be italian.

I don't know why this would make you said? Is it because you think it makes Italians less European? because according to Maciamos maps Haplogroup E and the Red Sea component are virtually everywhere in Europe except for the North west. If Italians aren't European I don't know who is then

[tlangford18]

Awesome! Thanks for sharing!

[IberoAtlantid]

For Spain, some observations :

Aragon is 0.7% and you have it mostly on the 1-2.5% range.
Andalusia is 1.8% and you have it mostly on the 2.5-5.0% range

Thanks for the info.

[dominique_nuit]

Pertaining to Otzi's autosomal DNA and to the concerns of this thread /////

I found these results posted on an old thread on Apricity, from 2013, and wonder if this information is correct. Perhaps more sophisticated calculators would yield different numbers today?

Gedrosia 0
Siberian 0
Northwest_African 5.7
South_Asian 1.5
Atlantic_Med 57.7
Caucasus 22.3
North_European 0
Southeast_Asian
East_African 2.4
East_Asian 0.7
Southwest_Asian 7.6
West_African 0

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?94485-%D6tzi-the-Iceman-s-Autosomal-Dna

In particular, the South Asian, East Asian & Southeast Asian findings seem doubtful.

However, the East African finding is perhaps more plausible in light of the fact that many of today's Mediterranean populations appear to have about 2 to 5% East African or Red Sea admixture. Perhaps this reflects very ancient structuring, perhaps even pre-dating the Neolithic? Could it be that East Africans migrated north and mixed with WHG during the Mesolithic era?

In essence, I am asking the same question that Maciamo posed in 2013 at the very beginning of this thread . . . .

[Kenshiro]

I don't know why this would make you said? Is it because you think it makes Italians less European? because according to Maciamos maps Haplogroup E and the Red Sea component are virtually everywhere in Europe except for the North west. If Italians aren't European I don't know who is then

I have none (0%) and i am South Italian (Apulia) it's really a shame, because from what i understand it could be linked to the ancient Egyptians, and I would have liked a bit of Egyptian DNA

[Kenshiro]

How so;
Did you really think Italy (founded 1861) was a genetic unity?
Italians [North/Central/South] are genetically diverse to each other in fact not even related;
this map about the Red Sea admix. once again illustrates it;
Ever thought about chopping your Italy tattoo into three parts?

it can be true up to a certain point, I plot in the middle, on closer inspection I am connected to both places, and I am 100% southern Italian (north of Puglia) on closer inspection Italy in the most historical sense of the term is the central, central south and central northern Italy, because it follows a perfect Greek-Italic cline, I would say that the cline goes from Emilia Romagna to the north of Puglia/north of Campania, in fact they are the areas where there is more direct descent from the ancient Italics, northern Italy is too more Celtic and southern Italy is too more Greek

[torzio]

it can be true up to a certain point, I plot in the middle, on closer inspection I am connected to both places, and I am 100% southern Italian (north of Puglia) on closer inspection Italy in the most historical sense of the term is the central, central south and central northern Italy, because it follows a perfect Greek-Italic cline, I would say that the cline goes from Emilia Romagna to the north of Puglia/north of Campania, in fact they are the areas where there is more direct descent from the ancient Italics, northern Italy is too more Celtic and southern Italy is too more Greek

sounds like you are referring to the well known linguistic divide of Italy................where the linguistic syntax is split

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Spe...%93Rimini_Line

[Angela]

it can be true up to a certain point, I plot in the middle, on closer inspection I am connected to both places, and I am 100% southern Italian (north of Puglia) on closer inspection Italy in the most historical sense of the term is the central, central south and central northern Italy, because it follows a perfect Greek-Italic cline, I would say that the cline goes from Emilia Romagna to the north of Puglia/north of Campania, in fact they are the areas where there is more direct descent from the ancient Italics, northern Italy is too more Celtic and southern Italy is too more Greek

Emilia-Romagna, Liguria, Toscana, imo, are the "heartland", and not because my ancestry is from there, but because indeed in the Veneto and Lombardia and even in parts of Piemonte there's a bit of Langobard, although it's still not very much, and the south is very Greek. I think once you get to Campania, however, the heavy Greek influence sets in, as can be seen in the analyses which Jovialis has done. Lazio virtually doesn't exist any more as a real "Central Italian" entity, so I don't count it, and the Abruzzi is already half southern.

[Kenshiro]

Emilia-Romagna, Liguria, Toscana, imo, are the "heartland", and not because my ancestry is from there, but because indeed in the Veneto and Lombardia and even in parts of Piemonte there's a bit of Langobard, although it's still not very much, and the south is very Greek. I think once you get to Campania, however, the heavy Greek influence sets in, as can be seen in the analyses which Jovialis has done. Lazio virtually doesn't exist any more as a real "Central Italian" entity, so I don't count it, and the Abruzzi is already half southern.

[/QUOTE]
Screenshot_2022-03-04-10-55-26-261_com.miui.gallery.jpg
This is my plot on G25, and i'm from the Gargano, a plot closer to Tuscany than to Apulia and closer to Umbria than Lazio, in my opinion, central Italy proper (excluding Abruzzo and Molise which are central-southern) is quite homogeneous

[Palermo Trapani]

Screenshot_2022-03-04-10-55-26-261_com.miui.gallery.jpg
This is my plot on G25, and i'm from the Gargano, a plot closer to Tuscany than to Apulia and closer to Umbria than Lazio, in my opinion, central Italy proper (excluding Abruzzo and Molise which are central-southern) is quite homogeneous[/QUOTE]

Hi Kenshiro: If possible, can you post your Dodecad 12B plots using all available samples from all political regions in Italy. Just curios to see the Dodecad 12B as I don't have G25 coordinates (others here I think also do not have G25 coordinates).

Cheers, PT

[Kenshiro]

Screenshot_2022-03-04-10-55-26-261_com.miui.gallery.jpg
This is my plot on G25, and i'm from the Gargano, a plot closer to Tuscany than to Apulia and closer to Umbria than Lazio, in my opinion, central Italy proper (excluding Abruzzo and Molise which are central-southern) is quite homogeneous

Hi Kenshiro: If possible, can you post your Dodecad 12B plots using all available samples from all political regions in Italy. Just curios to see the Dodecad 12B as I don't have G25 coordinates (others here I think also do not have G25 coordinates).

Cheers, PT[/QUOTE]
Yes absolutely, Screenshot_2022-03-22-21-14-18-775_com.android.chrome.jpg

[Palermo Trapani]

Kenshiro: Thanks, your results look good, My experience here (and I think others will agree, Angela, Jovialis, Salento) is that Dodecad 12B models Italian populations better than most other models. With Dodecade K12, you plot closer to Apulia which is where you are from.

[brick]

Screenshot_2022-03-04-10-55-26-261_com.miui.gallery.jpg
This is my plot on G25, and i'm from the Gargano, a plot closer to Tuscany than to Apulia and closer to Umbria than Lazio, in my opinion, central Italy proper (excluding Abruzzo and Molise which are central-southern) is quite homogeneous

Very unlikely. From what you posted your closest population is the Greeks from the Peloponnese.

Dodecad K12b results make much more sense in your case, as mentioned by Palermo Trapani.

[Papayaseeds]

I dont know, i find it hard to believe that finns and balts have more "Red Sea" then northwestern europeans, dagestanis , georgians and sardinians?

[Kenshiro]

Very unlikely. From what you posted your closest population is the Greeks from the Peloponnese.

Dodecad K12b results make much more sense in your case, as mentioned by Palermo Trapani.

Usually all calculators give me 60/70% Italic/Hellenic, the main difference is that I almost completely lack or have a very low southwest Asian component and a little more North European and Gedrosia, let's say, that in principle i'm are decomposable as 30/35% Minoan/Mycenaean-30/35% Iron age Latin/Protovillanovan/BronzeageIllyrians, the rest is divisible into Baltoslavian and Caucasus, however cool, I like it, it seems almost perfectly in line with the ancient Greco-Roman world