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Thread: New distribution map of Y-DNA haplogroup E-V13

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    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Italy has absorbed a large jewish community through time, that i why E has a variety of subclades. Ballkans have had small jewish communities that is why the E is homogenious over there.

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    E-M123 might be the key to understand E-V13, since they probably spread together with the Neolithic Farmers. E-M123* is more common in Iberia, and guess where they found the 7000 year old E-V13, Iberia. A place which makes sense, since early farmers would need mild weather for their primitive agriculture to work.
    Here is where E-M123* has been found:
    Cruciani et al. (2004) located one individual in Bulgaria after testing 3401 individuals from five continents (of which 116 were Bulgarian), and Underhill et al. (2000) located one individual in Central Asia out of 1062 people tested, including 184 from Central Asia and Siberia.
    In a 568 person study in Iberia, Flores et al. (2005) found two E-M123* individuals, both in Northern Portugal out of 109 people tested there.
    In a 553 person study of Portugal, Gonçalves et al. (2005) also found two E-M123* individuals in Northern Portugal, out of 101 people, as well as 2 in Madeira out of 129 people tested there.
    Flores et al. (2005) found one individual out of 146 Jordanians, this being one of the 101 individuals tested in Amman.

    And here is some info on the Iberian neolithic:
    In the 6th millennium BC, Andalusia experiences the arrival of the first agriculturalists. Their origin is uncertain but they arrive with already developed crops (cereals and legumes). The presence of domestic animals instead is unlikely, as only pig[disambiguation needed] and rabbit remains have been found and these could belong to wild animals. They also consumed large amounts of olives but it's uncertain too whether this tree was cultivated or merely harvested in its wild form. Their typical artifact is the La Almagra style pottery, quite variegated.[4]

    The Andalusian Neolithic also influenced other areas, notably Southern Portugal, where, soon after the arrival of agriculture, the first dolmen tombs begin to be built c. 4800 BC, being possibly the oldest of their kind anywhere.[4]
    C. 4700 BC Cardium Pottery Neolithic culture (also known as Mediterranean Neolithic) arrives to Eastern Iberia. While some remains of this culture have been found as far west as Portugal, its distribution is basically Mediterranean (Catalonia, Valencian region, Ebro valley, Balearic islands).
    The interior and the northern coastal areas remain largely marginal in this process of spread of agriculture. In most cases it would only arrive in a very late phase or even already in the Chalcolithic age, together with Megalithism.

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    That is what is to be deciphered at this point, how much of it is Neolithic, how much of it is Greek and how much of it came with Jews during the Middle Ages.

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    Hi,

    I am a e1b1b1a1b E-V13 and my father's family is from the Black Forest in Germany(Wagenstadt). Wagenstadt sits on the Western edge of the Black Forest. To tell you the truth I thought the lab got my results were wrong. What I am wondering is how my V13 haplogroup got to Wagenstadt?

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    Quote Originally Posted by enzstarr1963 View Post
    Hi,

    I am a e1b1b1a1b E-V13 and my father's family is from the Black Forest in Germany(Wagenstadt). Wagenstadt sits on the Western edge of the Black Forest. To tell you the truth I thought the lab got my results were wrong. What I am wondering is how my V13 haplogroup got to Wagenstadt?
    Congratulation! Its a tough haplogroup what you are having! To mention just a few people who belonged to the haplogroup, Adolph was one, Napoleon another one and many more troublemakers.
    To come to your question how come you belong to it? I will suggest some possibilities:
    You could be a descendant of a Jew and you don't know. A quarter of jewish or more belong to that haplogroup.
    Or since Romans were around there 2000 years ago you could be the descendant of a Roman soldier.
    Or since the E v13 people were among the fist inhabitants of the area before anybody else came you could be a descendant of a Neolithic farmer
    Or some Normand of middle ages made it there from the Balkans
    There are many possibilities and if you have a temper you know now why

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    Quote Originally Posted by albanopolis View Post
    Congratulation! Its a tough haplogroup what you are having! To mention just a few people who belonged to the haplogroup, Adolph was one, Napoleon another one and many more troublemakers.
    To come to your question how come you belong to it? I will suggest some possibilities:
    You could be a descendant of a Jew and you don't know. A quarter of jewish or more belong to that haplogroup.
    Or since Romans were around there 2000 years ago you could be the descendant of a Roman soldier.
    Or since the E v13 people were among the fist inhabitants of the area before anybody else came you could be a descendant of a Neolithic farmer
    Or some Normand of middle ages made it there from the Balkans
    There are many possibilities and if you have a temper you know now why

    Y r quite wrong about the Jews, they do mnot have this group maybe 0.5-1%!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaan View Post
    Never easy with brainwashing and propaganda. Man if E-V13 is not European R1b(Germanic and Celtic) is not European.End of story!R1b propaganda would be exposed, crushed and stopped!
    Why does it matter if E-V13 is European or not? That does not make us less superior or inferior. If I am born in America but my father came there from the Balkans it does not mean I am American Indian. (which are the real Americans) So, E V-13 people of today's Europe are in fact North Africans. But not North Africans like the one we see today, but like the ones 10 000 yrs ago without Arabic, subsaharan or European blood infusions. If we Balkan people look somehow different from North Africans is because of geography and other Asian or European admixtures.
    E-V13 people are fundamentally civilization creators. Responsible for farming inventors, housing, navigating, pyramid builders, math, science, military, art, architecture, religion and the list goes on.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by albanopolis View Post
    Why does it matter if E-V13 is European or not? That does not make us less superior or inferior. If I am born in America but my father came there from the Balkans it does not mean I am American Indian. (which are the real Americans) So, E V-13 people of today's Europe are in fact North Africans. But not North Africans like the one we see today,
    Ok, but if we use these standards, American Indians are not Americans, they are Asians, perhaps exactly Siberian Asians. I think it really gets confusing.


    If we Balkan people look somehow different from North Africans is because of geography and other Asian or European admixtures.
    Are you saying that EV13 people are not exactly the same as North Africans of 10k years ago? Why call them North Africans then?
    E-V13 people are fundamentally civilization creators. Responsible for farming inventors, housing, navigating, pyramid builders, math, science, military, art, architecture, religion and the list goes on.....
    Sure thing, but perhaps we should describe EV13 as originated in North Africa (if it is indeed the case with paternal line), and not
    E V-13 people of today's Europe are in fact North Africans.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by albanopolis View Post
    So, E V-13 people of today's Europe are in fact North Africans. But not North Africans like the one we see today, but like the ones 10 000 yrs ago without Arabic, subsaharan or European blood infusions.
    I very much doubt that E-V13 mutation happened in North Africa. The M78 (were E-V13 stems from yes) but the M78 mutation has been estimated to have occurred up to 18,000 years ago. E-V13 mutation happened much later and probably in the near east, if not in the Balkan region itself. The E-V13 in North Africa are better explained with the well documented Greek settlements in North Africa during the Hellenistic period. E-V13 in Libya is found mostly within the Jewish communities (again a subject of an import and not an export)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeks_in_Egypt
    Last edited by Maleth; 13-08-14 at 04:22. Reason: adding link

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by enzstarr1963 View Post
    Hi,

    I am a e1b1b1a1b E-V13 and my father's family is from the Black Forest in Germany(Wagenstadt). Wagenstadt sits on the Western edge of the Black Forest. To tell you the truth I thought the lab got my results were wrong. What I am wondering is how my V13 haplogroup got to Wagenstadt?
    There's a small ammount of E-V13 everywhere in Europe. With some other haplogroups, they're completely absent here or there, but E-V13 is quite common in most of Europe.
    As E-V13 probably originated somewhere in Thessaly, they could have spread agriculture to paleolithic Europeans ( including in Wagenstadt ), second possibility is a Roman soldier from the Balkans ( there were 17 Roman emperors of Balkan origin ), and finally, it could have been a hussar mercenary back during the thirty years war, and other wars which shaped central European empires.

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    Can a family live in one specific region of Spain with records found as far back as 1630 yet, no single person from numerous databases connect with DNA? At no generation level. This is a mystery indeed. Possibly because this tiny town does not have people conducting DNA analysis. Not sure. I'm finding connections with Ireland, Scotland, and other areas. Any ideas or comments from experts would be great.

    My Dad's Y-DNA Haplogroup

    BT SRY10831.1
    CF M168
    C+F
    F M89
    IJK
    K M9
    MNOPS
    P M45
    R M207
    R1 M173
    R1b M343


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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Not likely. There is no correlation at all between E-M123 & E-V13. E-V13 is ancient European (at the very least neolithic). I suspect E-M123 is Bronze Age (likely carried by Phoenicians). There is essentially no correlation between E-M123 & E-V13 in their distribution. In Italy for example, E-V13 increases from south to north (that's right it increases from south to north, & from west to east (especially west to east). The east coast of Italy is very heavy in E-V13. It's 12-16% E-V13 all along the east coast, all the way up to Venice. Whereas the only place in the west of Italy with 10%+ E-V13 is in the north in Liguria (Cardium connection?). E-M123 on the other hand is more common in the south & the west. E-V13 is common in southeast Europe. E-M123 a bit more common in the southwest. E-M34 has a very uneven distribution around Europe. There is more of it in the west of Italy & in eastern Spain. It doesn't track E-V13. If I had to guess I'd say it is Phoenician in origin given its distribution around the Mediterranean & its concentration/origin in the Levant. The haplogroup that does appear to track E-V13 is J2b. There may be a genuine connection between the two. It is possible that E-V13 (perhaps still in its E-M78 state) along with J2b spread directly from north Africa 10-15,000 years ago, island hopping along the way before settling in Greece, the Balkans or Bulgaria somewhere (maybe in all of these areas). E-V13's spread to various parts of Europe likely began circa 9000 years ago, perhaps from an origin in Bulgaria. There is a paper from 2013 addressing this: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0056779. As noted, we find E-V13 in Cardium, Sopot & Lengyel Cultures. We also find E-V13 in virtually every corner of Europe in moderate frequencies. That's not really true for E-M123. E-M123 is far more sparse & therefore likely somewhat younger in Europe. I'm always hearing theories about what haplo spread & when, with attempts to connect those haplos with various game-changing prehistoric or well-known historic events. This kind of speculation is almost always wrong from my experience. At least on the known evidence, E-V13 & E-M123 do not appear to be linked. E-M123 may however be linked to some of the other E's in Europe (E-V12, E-V22, etc).

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    you can make a map with numbers? Not with the percentages?
    Because I think we will see different results, the Campania region with Naples capital has many more V13 small Kossovo.Il transfer of people from Greece to Italy was very large. I think the real home of the V13 is the Grecia.Non can not even imagine the aegean islands without E1b1b1a1b.Le evidence now they say that where there are V13 There are been Greci.O people from those regions.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13

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    here is the graph done a little faster, shows that Italy is the country with most E-V13 to mondo.Se then consider Italians emigrated abroad (Argentina, Brazil, etc.) the number rises ulteriormente.Anticamente southern Italy was called "Magna grecia" and haplogroup E V13 has its highest indicatore.Perchč not give due importance to Greece as a cradle for the expansion?








    grafico v13 a.jpgitalia v13.jpg

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    <Easy man. There is no evidence that E-V13 is European.>

    Unless you are willing to read the evidence.
    E-v13 is found mostly EU, even more then R1b which extends in high % even outside of EU.

    If the Vikings I1 is European because is derived from non-european I* and that mutation to I1 happened in Europe 20'000 years ago, in the same way, the E-v13 originated in EU around 10'000 years ago from non-european E-M78. And evidence of that is found in Spain 7000 years ago....

    The most European one, is the slavic haplogroup, I2*, it derived from the European I1

    Read some more here:
    "E-V13 IS European because that particular mutation took place in southeastern Europe, but it’s parent E-M78 probably originated somewhere near the Egyptian/Sudan frontier and spread across much of Libya, Egypt, Somalia, Ethiopia. E-V13 is European, with parent from North East Africa. G2a (the one observed in Europe) is European parent from Caucaz. I2a is European with parent I2 the most European haplogrouop in the world. Germanic and Celtic R1b is European with parent from Anatolia and great parent from Central Asia! E-V13 is massively “European” in its distribution, some sub clade of it made it all the way into the western Mediterranean with the Neolithic. It is also clear from many papers that the extremely high Balkan frequencies stem from a founder effect and then a large expansion in relatively more recent times."


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    How can I2 be derived from I1 when you find I2 all over ancient Dna and pretty much zero I1... That's just confusing. What did I1 have a time travel machine?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ELIOV13 View Post
    here is the graph done a little faster, shows that Italy is the country with most E-V13 to mondo.
    Germany has approximately the same number of people with E-V13 as Italy has.

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    Red face E-V13 is a 7000 years european subclad of E1b1b

    Quote Originally Posted by enzstarr1963 View Post
    Hi,

    I am a e1b1b1a1b E-V13 and my father's family is from the Black Forest in Germany(Wagenstadt). Wagenstadt sits on the Western edge of the Black Forest. To tell you the truth I thought the lab got my results were wrong. What I am wondering is how my V13 haplogroup got to Wagenstadt?
    Why did you think so ? E-V13 is a 7000-10000 year old european subclad of E1b1b. True that E-v13 parent , the E-M78 came from north africa, but isn't the same for R1b that came from caucaz area? Actually E-V13 can be found mostly in EU and it has been found all over EU before roman time.... It's part of European DNA, and what's more interesting is that most people don't know that 7000 years ago Europeans were not white yet...

    I'm E-V13 too, originally from western balkans (croatia/montenegro/albania) but all ancestral hits and ancestral haplogroups hits are from UK/Germany.
    Last edited by drroots; 22-05-17 at 04:23. Reason: correction

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    Quote Originally Posted by albanopolis View Post
    Why does it matter if E-V13 is European or not? ....
    For sake of the truth - it matters!


    E-V13 is European because is born and is found in Europe.


    In fact, not only E-V13 is found mostly in EU, but even its closest parent, one step up in E hierarchy, the E-L618 is found in EU only. E-V13 is found in very very low % in north africa due to balkan soldiers in ottoman army or greek settlements....
    We don't know what subclads/terminal SNP Hitler belonged to, but if Hitler belonged to E-V13 as 10% of Austrian men belong to, then it's a European subclad, period! Otherwise it may be non-european one just like Napeleon seems to be (E-M34), a different branch split thousands years ago.

    please read more here:
    eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA.shtml

    What's most important is that someone can belong to an european subclad and may not be european b/c it's autosomal DNA is mostly non-european. And vice versa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by albanopolis View Post
    Why does it matter if E-V13 is European or not? That does not make us less superior or inferior. If I am born in America but my father came there from the Balkans it does not mean I am American Indian. (which are the real Americans) So, E V-13 people of today's Europe are in fact North Africans. But not North Africans like the one we see today, but like the ones 10 000 yrs ago without Arabic, subsaharan or European blood infusions. If we Balkan people look somehow different from North Africans is because of geography and other Asian or European admixtures.
    I agree until here, except "because of geography". But I disagree as follow:


    "E-V13 people are fundamentally civilization creators. Responsible for farming inventors, housing, navigating, pyramid builders, math, science, military, art, architecture, religion and the list goes on....."

    Just Ideology and Fantasy.

    E-V13 is as European as Americans will be the E carriers of Afro-American background.

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    Lots of hyperbole in both of the last two comments.


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    Red face Haplogroup/subclad Born in Europe is called EUROPEAN !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpenjager View Post
    E-V13 is as European as Americans will be the E carriers of Afro-American background.
    Based on that logic, then why R1b is european ? It's an asiatic Haplogroup, it's found in high percentage in central Africa too. In fact, why any other haplogroups would be called European when they all came from Africa ? Let's say I, didn't this haplogroup come from Africa->Arabia->S.Turkey (20'000 ybp) ???? and once moved into EU, the I1 is born in EU and this is the main haplogroup of Vikings.

    Haplogroup/Subclad Born in Europe is called EUROPEAN !!!

    Same for E-V13, came from North Africa E1b1b-M78 (20'000 ybp) and mutated in Europe 7000-10000 years ago. Found in Spain 7000 years ago, and in western balkans 5000 years ago.


    E-V13 is as much EUROPEAN as I1, R1b* , for EXCACTLY the same reasons R1b & I1 are !

    And of course, If African-americans haplogroup of E1b1b* will have their split in USA, a new American branch will develop in the future, same what happened to I*, R*, E* in Europe.
    Last edited by drroots; 23-05-17 at 20:59. Reason: correction

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    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-CTS9320
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H48 (mt Y HG I2b1)

    Ethnic group
    FTDNA 100% S.Eastern EU;Ancestral matches:UK/Germany; AncestryDNA: 86% Italian/greek the rest E.EU
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Lots of hyperbole in both of the last two comments.
    Totally !!!! :) :)

  24. #99
    Regular Member Achievements:
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    Points: 1,458, Level: 10
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-CTS9320
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H48 (mt Y HG I2b1)

    Ethnic group
    FTDNA 100% S.Eastern EU;Ancestral matches:UK/Germany; AncestryDNA: 86% Italian/greek the rest E.EU
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Apsurdistan View Post
    How can I2 be derived from I1 when you find I2 all over ancient Dna and pretty much zero I1... That's just confusing. What did I1 have a time travel machine?
    - I meant I2a from I2

  25. #100
    Regular Member Achievements:
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    Join Date
    06-04-17
    Location
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    Points: 1,458, Level: 10
    Level completed: 54%, Points required for next Level: 92
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-CTS9320
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H48 (mt Y HG I2b1)

    Ethnic group
    FTDNA 100% S.Eastern EU;Ancestral matches:UK/Germany; AncestryDNA: 86% Italian/greek the rest E.EU
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by albanopolis View Post
    Italy has absorbed a large jewish community through time, that i why E has a variety of subclades. Ballkans have had small jewish communities that is why the E is homogenious over there.
    Balkan has homogeneity of E-V13, and that's all what is found in Balkans, b/c E-V13 has been found and spread there for at least 5000 years. All other E-s (e.g E-M123) are almost non-existent in Balkans (except very south greece).

    Before slavic arrivals, seems like E-V13 was in higher percentage in all balkan countries...

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3t...d6MDJlaTQ/view

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