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Thread: New distribution map of haplogroup E-M123

  1. #76
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    that was found in ancient
    scytians from north east kazakhstan and the north pakistan swat iron age remains
    future will tell

    but the north pakistan swat iron age remains arent scythians are they?

    If its from scythians its pretty interesting to me as a kurd, because histrorically i know, that the persians, cyrus the great if im correct(whom we are very related to as kurds, it is said that kurds are descended from medes, and medes and persians are very closely related too) attacked the scythians, and at the time a queen ruled over the saka scythians and warned cyrus not to invade, well he did anyway and lost badly XD

    so to belong to a scythian branch, which dealt one of the most humiliating loss to my (supposed or closely related) ancestor group sounds pretty funny

    But i probably interpretated too much in this one

    Its probably from the scythians, who made numerous raids from north of the caucasus(between the black and caspian sea) down through the caucasus into present turkey and iran iraq and so forth, raiding and therefore of course, mating with the local women there

    when i tried to research about my kurdish origin ethnogesis, i also read a lot that kurds have their indo-european language because of invasions from tribes from the north caucasus region or even further the black sea scythia region, complex topic forgot many things about it, but it was interesting the relations between the umman manda medes scythians assyrians in the region

  2. #77
    Regular Member kingjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agok View Post
    that was found in ancient
    scytians from north east kazakhstan and the north pakistan swat iron age remains
    future will tell

    but the north pakistan swat iron age remains arent scythians are they?

    If its from scythians its pretty interesting to me as a kurd, because histrorically i know, that the persians, cyrus the great if im correct(whom we are very related to as kurds, it is said that kurds are descended from medes, and medes and persians are very closely related too) attacked the scythians, and at the time a queen ruled over the saka scythians and warned cyrus not to invade, well he did anyway and lost badly XD

    so to belong to a scythian branch, which dealt one of the most humiliating loss to my (supposed or closely related) ancestor group sounds pretty funny

    But i probably interpretated too much in this one

    Its probably from the scythians, who made numerous raids from north of the caucasus(between the black and caspian sea) down through the caucasus into present turkey and iran iraq and so forth, raiding and therefore of course, mating with the local women there

    when i tried to research about my kurdish origin ethnogesis, i also read a lot that kurds have their indo-european language because of invasions from tribes from the north caucasus region or even further the black sea scythia region, complex topic forgot many things about it, but it was interesting the relations between the umman manda medes scythians assyrians in the region

    i think not i think
    they are indo-aryans
    but thats my opinion i think velislav and others knows
    better than me about the swat remains
    ancestery :
    mostly western jewish here is the overlapp with south europe[U]

    "Know where you came from and where you are going."

    Direct paternal line : mizrahi from damascus

  3. #78
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    Early human evolution is most likely to have occurred in East Africa, according to archaeological and paleontological data. Populations from the region are also found to have, although not solely, representative of the more primitive clusters of mitochondrial or Y-chromosome phylogenies, according to genetic research. The majority of Y-chromosome haplogroup variety in Africa, on the other hand, is found in macrohaplogroup E, which appears to have arisen somewhere between the Red Sea & Lake Chad 21 000–32 000 years ago. The combined analysis of 17 bi-allelic markers in 1214 Y chromosomes, as well as the cultural background of 49 populations, revealed a significant contribution of East African populations to the macrohaplogroup's foundation, implying a diversity that predates the looks of some cultural elements and the subsequent expansion that is more associated. The E-P2 mutation-carrying proto-Afro-Asiatic group may have developed during this period, giving birth to several major demographic groupings, including modern speakers of Afro-Asiatic languages and pastoralist people. Y Haplogroup is a human genetic subgroup. The single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) mutation M123 defines the E-M123 Y-chromosome haplogroup. E-M123 is widespread throughout Asia, Europe, and Africa, just as its closest cousins in the wider E-M215 haplogroup.

  4. #79
    Regular Member Valerius's Avatar
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    i think not i think
    they are indo-aryans
    but thats my opinion i think velislav and others knows
    better than me about the swat remains
    Indo+Iranian would most likely be the case. But that's normal, I mean in case this haplogroup was already present in the Andronovo culture, from there it would have penetrated all the branches of the Aryans. It seems historically our branches separated in the late Mesolithic period from what I can tell with mines going to Europe (with Neolithic farmers) and his going to Asia (with the IE colonizers).

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    my str results are completed, my updated y111 is:

    16 24 13 11 - - 11 12 12 13 11 31 - 9 9 11 11 27 14 20 - - - - - 11 11 19 low confidence 22 low confidence 15 13 - - - - 14 10 10 8 15 15 7 10 10 8 11 10 0 24 24 16 11 12 12 - 7 12 25 19 13 low confidence 13 12 14 10 12 10 11 - 16 8 16 11 - - 19 - 12 14 12 14 9 11 11 10 11 12 29 12 - - 14 9 11 28 16 17.a low confidence - 22 - 12 16 24 - 21 21 low confidence 12 low confidence 14 18 7 12 11

    nevgen format:16,24,13,11,0-0,11,12,12,13,11,31,0,9-9,11,11,27,14,20,0,0-0-0-0,11,11,19-22,15,13,0,0,0-0,14,10,10,8,15-15,7,10,10,8,11,10,0,24-24,16,11,12,12,0,7,12,25,19,13,13,12,14,10,12,10,1 1,0,16,8,16,11,0,0,19,0,12,14,12,14,9,11,11,10,11, 12,29,12,0,0,14,9,11,28,16,17,0,22,0,12,16,24,0,21 ,21,12,14,18,7,12,11

    16
    24
    13
    11
    -
    -
    11
    12
    12
    13
    11
    31
    -
    9
    9
    11
    11
    27
    14
    20
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    11
    11
    19 low confidence
    22 low confidence
    15
    13
    -
    -
    -
    -
    14
    10
    10
    8
    15
    15
    7
    10
    10
    8
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    10
    0
    24
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    16
    11
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    12
    -
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    13 low confidence
    13
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    14
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    -
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    8
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    12
    -
    -
    14
    9
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    28
    16
    17.a low confidence
    -
    22
    -
    12
    16
    24
    -
    21
    21 low confidence
    12 low confidence
    14
    18
    7
    12
    11

  6. #81
    Regular Member kingjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agok View Post
    my str results are completed, my updated y111 is:

    16 24 13 11 - - 11 12 12 13 11 31 - 9 9 11 11 27 14 20 - - - - - 11 11 19 low confidence 22 low confidence 15 13 - - - - 14 10 10 8 15 15 7 10 10 8 11 10 0 24 24 16 11 12 12 - 7 12 25 19 13 low confidence 13 12 14 10 12 10 11 - 16 8 16 11 - - 19 - 12 14 12 14 9 11 11 10 11 12 29 12 - - 14 9 11 28 16 17.a low confidence - 22 - 12 16 24 - 21 21 low confidence 12 low confidence 14 18 7 12 11

    nevgen format:16,24,13,11,0-0,11,12,12,13,11,31,0,9-9,11,11,27,14,20,0,0-0-0-0,11,11,19-22,15,13,0,0,0-0,14,10,10,8,15-15,7,10,10,8,11,10,0,24-24,16,11,12,12,0,7,12,25,19,13,13,12,14,10,12,10,1 1,0,16,8,16,11,0,0,19,0,12,14,12,14,9,11,11,10,11, 12,29,12,0,0,14,9,11,28,16,17,0,22,0,12,16,24,0,21 ,21,12,14,18,7,12,11

    16
    24
    13
    11
    -
    -
    11
    12
    12
    13
    11
    31
    -
    9
    9
    11
    11
    27
    14
    20
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    11
    11
    19 low confidence
    22 low confidence
    15
    13
    -
    -
    -
    -
    14
    10
    10
    8
    15
    15
    7
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    8
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    10
    0
    24
    24
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    19
    13 low confidence
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    -
    -
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    9
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    17.a low confidence
    -
    22
    -
    12
    16
    24
    -
    21
    21 low confidence
    12 low confidence
    14
    18
    7
    12
    11

    thats what i get when i put your haplotype in negven ( which having extremely hard time with your haplotype)
    but even though the probability is extremely low and fitness very low
    it still points to e-m123* as the likely haplogroup


    i try with 2 options:

    1)without known snp

    https://i.imgur.com/OFOrtNE.png

    2)with known snp e-m35

    https://i.imgur.com/BZ8O0OB.png

  7. #82
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    Man, i dont know if i should feel unique or like a loner , any way im even more lost now

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by agok View Post
    Man, i dont know if i should feel unique or like a loner , any way im even more lost now
    don't be lost it is only a matter of time
    as more people test there is higher chance that people
    will fall on your branch
    there is soon a paper with new samples from ( middle east and balkan your branch can be found)


    Last edited by kingjohn; 25-06-22 at 07:30.

  9. #84
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    thanks for giving me hope

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Maciamo, is it possible that you're counting some really old migrants to France and England??(19th century, early 20th)It's a bit difficult that any middle eastener occupied Gaul and Britain, since most likely was colonized by Italics and Hispanics.Let alone that has survived that much in comparisson with a place that was muslim like Spain.It seems more likely that they brought someone for the crops.

  11. #86
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Did the paper from Israel Institute for Advanced Studies contain any new E-M123 samples?

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by agok View Post
    Did the paper from Israel Institute for Advanced Studies contain any new E-M123 samples?
    We don't know yet since
    We are still waiting for david reich to publish
    This paper

    P.s
    Suppose to be 3 papers inside the southern Arc:

    I believe there will be some e-m84>pf6751
    In bronze age paper

    And e-m84>y5435 in iron age / historical paper

    And i hope for you we will see e-m123*(x m34)
    Last edited by kingjohn; 17-08-22 at 15:06.

  13. #88
    Regular Member kingjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    We don't know yet since
    We are still waiting for david reich to publish
    This paper
    P.s
    Suppose to be 3 papers inside the southern Arc:
    I believe there will be some e-m84>pf6751
    In bronze age paper

    And e-m84>y5435 in iron age / historical paper
    And i hope for you we will see e-m123*(x m34)
    at least i was correct in one thing e-m84>pf6751 does show in bronze age armenia and also anatolia

    I15733 -1370 ARM_Nerkin_Getashen_LBA Nerkin Getashen Armenia 40,91666 44,5 69,54% E-Y6186 J1c

    I15732 -1368 ARM_Nerkin_Getashen_LBA Nerkin Getashen Armenia 40,91666 44,5 69,28% E-CTS5265 K1a1

    I20444-ARM_Sarukhan_unknown Sarukhan Armenia 40,29221 45,130679 46,24% E-M84 T2a1b2b

    I4614 -3005 TUR_SE_Şırnak_BA Tatika (Southeast, Şırnak, Güçlükonak, Koçtepe köyü) Turkey 37,5432 41,8662 29,26% E-M34 T2c1c1

    I14782 -1750 TUR_SE_Kilis_MBA_father.I14784.father.I14789 Oylum Höyük (Southeast, Kilis) Turkey 36,69 37,17 65,54% E-PF6748 H+152

    I14784 -1745 TUR_SE_Kilis_MBA Oylum Höyük (Southeast, Kilis) Turkey 36,69 37,17 69,98% E-CTS9608 H


    source paper :
    https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm4247


    p.s

    those that are not defined by the paper as e-m84>pf6751 probably also will fall on this branch if pribislav anlaysed them farther
    there is the potential though that I4614 will be e-Z841>E-L791 with farther anlaysis
    i am sorry for e-m123* but it doesn't appear here also like the more rare branches of e-m84:
    e-s11168 (mine which more localised to south levant)
    e-BY49153(south europe)
    e-BY56570 ( south europe, mesopotamia)

    but that was expected
    Last edited by kingjohn; 27-08-22 at 13:35.

  14. #89
    Regular Member kingjohn's Avatar
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    this sample almost escaped my eyes
    interesting this is under e-CTS10880/E-v1515 the parallel branch to our e-pf1962


    I4540 1457-1631 AD TUR_SE_Mardin_PostMdv Aktaş Mevki (Southeast, Mardin, Midyat) Turkey 37,415 41,373 70,66% E-CTS10880 R0a2

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-CTS10880/

    source:

    https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm4247


    p.s
    might arrived originally from iraq or arabia to south turkey

  15. #90
    Regular Member kingjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    from passa e1b1b1 great map :)
    the e-m84 eastern scytian dude from the same research in south ural

    https://i.imgur.com/SlhhnZh.png

    Scythian MJ40 (ScySar_SU) - E-PF6746
    (this branch is under e-m84 )
    i gave the link to his bam file to theytree site

    https://www.theytree.com/tree/E-CTS4483

    https://www.theytree.com/usersample/...a6b2125cd.html

    p.s
    i guess if he was in a better quality they could defined him in farther downstream snp
    than just e-m84 level
    like branches e-pf6751 or e-y5435
    we know some BMAC culture remain from turkmenistan fall on e1b1b1
    so very likely it was some migration from the south to the north
    as most sarmatians are r1a and Q not e1b1b1

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