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Thread: New map of haplogroup J2b (M102)

  1. #26
    Marquis
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    Hg T is unbelievably rare, all across the board.

  2. #27
    Regular Member Nobody1's Avatar
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    Country: Germany - Baden-Wurttemberg



    I dont think thats strange at all;

    The 67 NE Italians samples from Battaglia et al 2009 are all from the prov. of Trento
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2947100/
    The 73 NE Italians samples from Boattini et al 2013 are all from Veneto [Vicenza/Treviso]
    http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0065441

    Two diff. regions with two diff. languages and diff. pre-Roman and post-Roman histories;
    Diff. Hg frequencies are to be expected;

    In terms of autosomal DNA - the Veneto and the prov. of Trento is however very close;

    DiGaetano et al 2012-
    http://www.plosone.org/article/info:...l.pone.0043759

  3. #28
    Regular Member Twilight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    After E-V13 it was only natural that I should follow with the map of J2b, the other major South Balkanic lineage with Neolithic ties.

    The distribution is actually quite similar to E-V13, apart from a lower incidence in Slavic countries, but that may just be because E-V13 is found at a ratio of 4:1 against J2b almost everywhere. So wherever E-V13 is between 1% and 4% it would lie in the grey zone ( <1%) for J2b.

    There is hardly any data for J2b in Iberia and France, so the actual distribution may be less homogeneous.



    Compare with E-V13



    Interestingly J2b appears to be absent from most of northern Italy, although that is not the case for E-V13. The opposite is true for the Basques, who have J2b but hardly any E-V13.

    Note that Kurdistan has high frequency of J2b, E-V13 as well as I2a-Din, R1a and R1b-L23 in (the whole South Balkanic package).

    Twilight:How likely would Haplogroup E-V13 and J2B would be in separete tribes in the Cispine Celts?

    Also noteworthy is the presence of both J2b and E-M123 in southern England (possible Roman heritage ?)
    Makes sence, but the only way I can imagion the Roman DNA in the British gene pool is if the Roman Army kicked out their citizens who were unfit to fight and leave them to defend themselves when Rome was collapsing; still possible though. :/

  4. #29
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody1 View Post
    I dont think thats strange at all;

    The 67 NE Italians samples from Battaglia et al 2009 are all from the prov. of Trento
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2947100/
    The 73 NE Italians samples from Boattini et al 2013 are all from Veneto [Vicenza/Treviso]
    http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0065441

    Two diff. regions with two diff. languages and diff. pre-Roman and post-Roman histories;
    Diff. Hg frequencies are to be expected;

    In terms of autosomal DNA - the Veneto and the prov. of Trento is however very close;

    DiGaetano et al 2012-
    http://www.plosone.org/article/info:...l.pone.0043759
    Ok, I accept this.

    Then the difference of E-V13 of 10% reflects some type of late migration into North-east Italy of E-V13 because if it was earlier then it would have spread between trentino and veneto more evenly. The only E , which is late would be the very few greek and Albanian stratioti , but they where usually placed in Istria.

    Also, linguistically south and east trentino speak venetian and were venetian lands far longer in history than trentini ( similar story with east-lombardy). The borders where Rovereto in the south of Trentino and Siror with Susaga ( ValSusaga) in east trentino area. Susaga was the venetian republic main silver mine area.

    BTW, it means also that trentino and Veneto have 6.4% of the T marker I belong too.
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

  5. #30
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Nice map :) Would u please make maps for J-M67, J-M92 and J-M530

  6. #31
    Regular Member
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    MtDNA haplogroup
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    After E-V13 it was only natural that I should follow with the map of J2b, the other major South Balkanic lineage with Neolithic ties.

    The distribution is actually quite similar to E-V13, apart from a lower incidence in Slavic countries, but that may just be because E-V13 is found at a ratio of 4:1 against J2b almost everywhere. So wherever E-V13 is between 1% and 4% it would lie in the grey zone ( <1%) for J2b.

    There is hardly any data for J2b in Iberia and France, so the actual distribution may be less homogeneous.



    Compare with E-V13



    Interestingly J2b appears to be absent from most of northern Italy, although that is not the case for E-V13. The opposite is true for the Basques, who have J2b but hardly any E-V13.

    Note that Kurdistan has high frequency of J2b, E-V13 as well as I2a-Din, R1a and R1b-L23 in (the whole South Balkanic package).

    Also noteworthy is the presence of both J2b and E-M123 in southern England (possible Roman heritage ?)
    Is there a paper about Kurdish Y-DNA haplogroups? I could only find Kurdish FTDNA project, but only with a dozen of participants. Do we know something more specific about their J2b? I mean subclades e.g. M241, M205, J2b*. And what about Dagestan J2b? I see a 3-4% patch near the north-west Caspian.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by BakodiP View Post
    Is there a paper about Kurdish Y-DNA haplogroups? I could only find Kurdish FTDNA project, but only with a dozen of participants. Do we know something more specific about their J2b? I mean subclades e.g. M241, M205, J2b*. And what about Dagestan J2b? I see a 3-4% patch near the north-west Caspian.
    We have here on Eupedia the frequency of Kurdish Haplogroups.

    If you want some papers, there would be Nasidze et al., Nebel et al. and Grugni et al 2012. These are once I know about.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    We have here on Eupedia the frequency of Kurdish Haplogroups.

    If you want some papers, there would be Nasidze et al., Nebel et al. and Grugni et al 2012. These are once I know about.
    At Nasidze I've found only M172. (I checked a 2005 paper.) Can you tell me something about the Dagestani J2b people or the J2b in the Caucasus?

  9. #34
    Marquis
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    Country: Italy



    You have to fix the J2b map Maciamo: north-central Italy has 9.6% J2b; one of the world's highest concentrations excluding Albania and parts of Greece such as Thessaly (8.8%)

  10. #35
    Elite member Hauteville's Avatar
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    Country: Italy



    Was J2b carried in eastern Sicily,south Calabria and Salento with the greek colonization?

  11. #36
    Moorish pride Moor's Avatar
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    Interesting.

  12. #37
    Regular Member Galaxy Overlord's Avatar
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    I think these maps are due for an update, we've gotten much more samples since then.

  13. #38
    Regular Member Fustan's Avatar
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    I agree, it deserves an update by now.

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