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Thread: Haplogroup P-M45 link to Mound Building?

  1. #1
    Tabaccus Maximus Tabaccus Maximus's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.

    Haplogroup P-M45 link to Mound Building?

    I'd like to make a proposal and see the reactions:
    Are mound burials (tumuli) connected to peoples descending from Paleolithic P-M45 of Central Asia?
    (The descendants of P-M45 are essentially Q-men (Siberians, Native Americans) and R-men (West Asians, ie. R1 and R2)

    The tumulus is a dug grave covered with stones, timbers or bricks and is usually then covered with earth. It may consist of one or many burials with grave goods. Native Americans, Siberians and West Asian usually buried the body in a "flexed position" with knees towards the chest. Usually, the body was faced in a particular cardinal direction. Different configurations sometimes lead women and or children to be faced in the opposite direction as men.

    Both Q* and R* probably arose about 20-25,000 years ago somewhere south or east of the Caspian Sea in Central Asia. Certainly both belonged to a single population, possibly for thousands of years before Q* ultimately dislocated into Northeast Asia and the Americas. R* may have lingered for many years in South Central Asia before spreading westwardly past the Caspian.

    In any case, Q* and R* were at one time, somewhere, part of a singular cultural identity. Perhaps that ancient race was a composite of P-M45 men (father of Q* and R*) and Mitochondrally "X" women. As the two groups became geographically dislocated, the Q*+X population began taking the wives of other Mongoloids, whereas the West Asian group (R*+X) became increasingly Caucasoid, taking wives in Southwest Asia and the Near East.

    Perhaps the low levels of mtdna haplogroup X throughout the sphere of P-M45 can be explained by a kind of selective neutrality, or reproductive homeostasis in the paleolithic, hunter-gatherer populations, where equal numbers of boys and girls at a certain birth weight maintained a population sustainable for those living conditions.
    But as these men began taking foreign wives in the late Paleolithic (R* + H, U, T) and (Q* + A, B, C, D), reproductive homeostasis was disrupted whereby Q and R men began producing larger numbers of boys with women having different PH, genetics, etc.; hence the explosive nature of these haplogroups.

    **edit: I deleted a lot of the previous blabber. The original post was just too long. If you do a search of "burial mounds" or "tumulus" you'll get a lot of results for a variety of cultures. I think everyone is smart enough to figure it out. I will caution though, in many cases such as the Shang, Silla, Kofun, Dilmun, Levant, etc. there were intrusive cultures coming from Siberia or West Asia. So before you dismiss the possibility on account of "well a lot of different cultures had burial mounds", I would suggest to look a little closer.


    Does anyone else think there is a pattern?

    "Takamasusuka Tomb" -October 2013, taken by Tabaccus Maximus
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    Last edited by Tabaccus Maximus; 20-10-13 at 07:55.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Twilight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabaccus Maximus View Post
    I'd like to make a proposal and see the reactions:
    Are mound burials (tumuli) connected to peoples descending from Paleolithic P-M45 of Central Asia?
    (The descendants of P-M45 are essentially Q-men (Siberians, Native Americans) and R-men (West Asians, ie. R1 and R2)

    The tumulus is a dug grave covered with stones, timbers or bricks and is usually then covered with earth. It may consist of one or many burials with grave goods. Native Americans, Siberians and West Asian usually buried the body in a "flexed position" with knees towards the chest. Usually, the body was faced in a particular cardinal direction. Different configurations sometimes lead women and or children to be faced in the opposite direction as men.

    Both Q* and R* probably arose about 20-25,000 years ago somewhere south or east of the Caspian Sea in Central Asia. Certainly both belonged to a single population, possibly for thousands of years before Q* ultimately dislocated into Northeast Asia and the Americas. R* may have lingered for many years in South Central Asia before spreading westwardly past the Caspian.

    In any case, Q* and R* were at one time, somewhere, part of a singular cultural identity. Perhaps that ancient race was a composite of P-M45 men (father of Q* and R*) and Mitochondrally "X" women. As the two groups became geographically dislocated, the Q*+X population began taking the wives of other Mongoloids, whereas the West Asian group (R*+X) became increasingly Caucasoid, taking wives in Southwest Asia and the Near East.

    Perhaps the low levels of mtdna haplogroup X throughout the sphere of P-M45 can be explained by a kind of selective neutrality, or reproductive homeostasis in the paleolithic, hunter-gatherer populations, where equal numbers of boys and girls at a certain birth weight maintained a population sustainable for those living conditions.
    But as these men began taking foreign wives in the late Paleolithic (R* + H, U, T) and (Q* + A, B, C, D), reproductive homeostasis was disrupted whereby Q and R men began producing larger numbers of boys with women having different PH, genetics, etc.; hence the explosive nature of these haplogroups.

    **edit: I deleted a lot of the previous blabber. The original post was just too long. If you do a search of "burial mounds" or "tumulus" you'll get a lot of results for a variety of cultures. I think everyone is smart enough to figure it out. I will caution though, in many cases such as the Shang, Silla, Kofun, Dilmun, Levant, etc. there were intrusive cultures coming from Siberia or West Asia. So before you dismiss the possibility on account of "well a lot of different cultures had burial mounds", I would suggest to look a little closer.


    Does anyone else think there is a pattern?

    "Takamasusuka Tomb" -October 2013, taken by Tabaccus Maximus
    yes the Native American and Celtic mound buildings do look similar but first, I'd turn to the Ket people for answers, after all the Ket tribe is said to be 95% haplogroup Q and check with their oral history also ;). Also I think we also need to find prehistoric mound buildings in south Central Asia and with graves tested for haplogroup P, then I'd feel like we'd have a smoking gun to the Yeniseian superculture mystery.

    But I doubt that Kurgans were solely done by a specific superhaplogroup like P without trade because correct me if I'm wrong that the oldest Kurgan ever discovered dates back to 4000 BC with the Corded Ware Culture, but that doesn't mean in any way there can't be an older mound or if one in South Central Asia collapsed due to the arid landscape since Native Americans also built buarial mounds. Source: http://polishgenes.blogspot.com/2010...rded-ware.html but since we are getting earth mounds in East Asia where haplogroup O is dominant, but since the oldest is 6,000 years old I'm hypothasize for now that was because the original kurgan builders traded with other civilizations
    Link to different types of Kurgans: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumulus
    Last edited by Twilight; 24-10-13 at 21:26. Reason: Adding data

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