Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: New map of mtDNA haplogroup I

  1. #1
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,694
    Points
    696,707
    Level
    100
    Points: 696,707, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 9.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.

    Post New map of mtDNA haplogroup I

    Here is the new map of mt-haplogroup I.



    It's impossible to attribute an ethnic origin to the whole of haplogroup I as it is divided in 6 main branches and many subclades, which have a very different geographic distribution.

    Subclades

    - I1a is found in Central and Eastern Europe, in the Caucasus and in the British isles. I1a1a seem to be found almost exclusively among the Finns. I1b has been found in Sweden, Poland and Kurdistan. I1c is an Ashkenazi subclade. IMHO, The I1 branch is of Balto-Slavic origin and linked to Y-haplogroup R1a. The Ashkenazi subclade may either be Levite (who are mostly R1a) or the result of intermarriages with Central Europeans.

    - I2 is found in most of northern Europe, but also in the Caucasus and in Siberia. Some subclades could be Indo-European.

    - I3 is found mostly in northwestern Europe (France, British Isles, and to a lower extent Italy and West Germany). Probably associated with the Proto-Italo-Celtic branch of the Indo-Europeans.

    - I4a is scattered around all Europe, but is also found around the Black Sea, the North Caucasus, Iran and Siberia. It is probably Indo-European.

    - I5a is found in most of southern and central Europe, but also in Turkey and the Arabian peninsula. It was either brought by Neolithic farmers to Europe, or brought by Indo-Europeans to the Middle East.

    - I6 has been observed in Turkey and Sicily.

    Incidence

    The highest frequency of I observed to date is on the island of Krk on the north coast of Croatia, for which Pericic et al. (2005) reported 11.3% (n=133).

    The highest frequencies are otherwise found among the Mordovians (5.9%) in the Volga-Ural, the Dargins (6.4%), Chechen-Ingush (5.7%) and Kumyks (5.3%) in the northeastern Caucasus, in Latvia (4.6%) and Finland (4.2%), in England (4%), Scotland (4.1%, but 6.5% in the Western Isles), West Ireland (5.5%), Cornwall (5.8%), Finistère (4.9%), Provence (Var department 5.4%), Lombardy (5.1%), the Latium (4.2%), and parts of Sicily (8.6% in Caccamo, 7.6% in Piazza Armerina, 7.1% in Ragusa).

    Note also the oddly elevated percentages of I among the Kurds (3.4%) and the Druzes (3.4%), who once again distinguish themselves from their neighbours.

    Unfortunately I don't have any data on the subclades in Egypt and Southwest Asia. I is also found around 1-2% in Central Asia, confirming the possibility of an Indo-European connection, but I also have no data on the subclades.

    An Indo-European link

    I have noted before that there was a link between mtDNA I and the diffusion of R1a and R1b in North and Central Asia. Haplogroup I (including about half of I1) has been found at lower frequencies among the Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Turkmens, Kyrgyz, Tajiks, Uyghurs, Altai tribes, Xiongnu, Buryats, Mongolians and Tuva, among others. These populations all have in common the presence of haplogroup R1a and often also R1b. Haplogroup I1 has also been found on many sites from the Unetice culture, which yielded both Y-DNA R1a and R1b, as well as on Corded Ware sites, which are linked to R1a.


    UPDATE: a detailed page about the origins, history, distribution and subclades of haplogroup I is now available here.
    Last edited by Maciamo; 10-03-14 at 10:36.
    My book selection---Follow me on Facebook and Twitter --- My profile on Academia.edu and on ResearchGate ----Check Wa-pedia's Japan Guide
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "What is the use of living, if it be not to strive for noble causes and to make this muddled world a better place for those who will live in it after we are gone?", Winston Churchill.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,120
    Points
    29,699
    Level
    52
    Points: 29,699, Level: 52
    Level completed: 96%, Points required for next Level: 51
    Overall activity: 37.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Here is the new map of mt-haplogroup I.



    It's impossible to attribute an ethnic origin to all of haplogroup I as it is divided in 6 main branches and many subclades, which have a very different geographic distribution. For example:

    - I1a is found in Central and Eastern Europe, in the Caucasus and in the British isles. I1a1a seem to be found almost exclusively among the Finns. I1c is an Ashkenazi subclade.

    - I2 is found in most of northern Europe, but also in the Caucasus.

    - I3 is found mostly in northwestern Europe (France, British Isles, and to a lower extent Italy and West Germany).

    - I4a is scattered around all Europe.

    - I5a is found in most of southern and central Europe, but also in Turkey and the Arabian peninsula, which could give it a Neolithic origin.

    - I6 has been observed in Turkey and Sicily.
    What is the Lombard one in Northern Italy ....I3 ?
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

  3. #3
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,694
    Points
    696,707
    Level
    100
    Points: 696,707, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 9.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    What is the Lombard one in Northern Italy ....I3 ?
    I don't know. The frequency for Lombardy is from Achilli et al. 2007, but subclades aren't specified. No hg I member from northern Italy at FTDNA. Brisighelli et al. 2012 tested I subclades, but most Italians are I* (or subclade undetermined). The only ones that were not I* were two I5 members from Trentino-South Tyrol and two I1a from Calabria and Apulia.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,120
    Points
    29,699
    Level
    52
    Points: 29,699, Level: 52
    Level completed: 96%, Points required for next Level: 51
    Overall activity: 37.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    I don't know. The frequency for Lombardy is from Achilli et al. 2007, but subclades aren't specified. No hg I member from northern Italy at FTDNA. Brisighelli et al. 2012 tested I subclades, but most Italians are I* (or subclade undetermined). The only ones that were not I* were two I5 members from Trentino-South Tyrol and two I1a from Calabria and Apulia.
    Ok

    FTDNA North-Italy has only 1 x I mtdna from Verona ...............close enough to Lombardy although Verona is in Veneto

    FTDNA AlpGen has zero

    Interesting to find out if these are lombard migrational wives

  5. #5
    Regular Member Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,120
    Points
    29,699
    Level
    52
    Points: 29,699, Level: 52
    Level completed: 96%, Points required for next Level: 51
    Overall activity: 37.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    I don't know. The frequency for Lombardy is from Achilli et al. 2007, but subclades aren't specified. No hg I member from northern Italy at FTDNA. Brisighelli et al. 2012 tested I subclades, but most Italians are I* (or subclade undetermined). The only ones that were not I* were two I5 members from Trentino-South Tyrol and two I1a from Calabria and Apulia.
    Your mtdna maps for I and X show that Lombardy is dominant for these 2 markers, is there a migrational path from anywhere to Lombardy?

  6. #6
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Ike's Avatar
    Join Date
    20-12-10
    Posts
    1,128
    Points
    4,720
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,720, Level: 20
    Level completed: 18%, Points required for next Level: 330
    Overall activity: 3.0%


    Country: Yugoslavia



    Why do you people always repost the maps in your posts...

  7. #7
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,305
    Points
    279,183
    Level
    100
    Points: 279,183, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Maciamo, does this map include the Fernandes et al 2012 data?
    http://www.cell.com/AJHG/abstract/S0...2811%2900545-3

  8. #8
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,305
    Points
    279,183
    Level
    100
    Points: 279,183, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post
    Why do you people always repost the maps in your posts...
    So people don't have to scroll all the way back to the first post in order to refresh their recollection? I happen to find that very annoying, by the way...lol.

    Just for you, though, I didn't repost the map above! :)

  9. #9
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,305
    Points
    279,183
    Level
    100
    Points: 279,183, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    Your mtdna maps for I and X show that Lombardy is dominant for these 2 markers, is there a migrational path from anywhere to Lombardy?
    Sile, this is what Fernandes et al has to say...
    Haplogroup I, which is by far the most frequent clade within N1, dates to ∼25 ka ago and is overall most frequent in Europe (Figure 2A), but the facts that it has a frequency peak in the Gulf region and that its highest diversity values are in the Gulf, Anatolia, and southeast Europe suggest that its origin is most likely in the Near East and/or Arabia (Figures S4A and S5A). A subhaplogroup of I5a shows a recent tight founder effect ∼2 ka ago on Soqotra, an island that is found in the Gulf of Aden and which was settled during the Holocene.27 I4 and I2′I3, dating to 10–15 ka ago, are both predominantly European. In the HVS-I founder analysis, haplogroup I indicates a primarily Late Glacial expansion, but the I1a subclade peaks in the Neolithic period at ∼6 ka ago under both founder analysis criteria. This pattern is confirmed by the complete sequence tree and again indicates expansion from a probable Near Eastern source dating to ∼5 ka ago.

    So, according to them, I1a has a peak 4,000 B.C, but the trail for mtDNA I is definitely from the Near East. So, from Arabia up into the Levant and Anatolia, then with the Neolithic it goes into Europe. From there, who knows...some could have gone into Eastern Europe and then across with the Indo-Europeans if you follow that theory, but it could have spread from the Balkans as well.

    Some "I" could be late "glacial" as they say...

    MtDNA "X", according to them, is also from the "Arabian Cradle" but has been in Europe a long time.

    I'll take a look at Behar and see what his estimates are...

  10. #10
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,305
    Points
    279,183
    Level
    100
    Points: 279,183, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Btw, this is just out. Tests were done on eight Egyptian mummies. They were radiocarbon dated and placed within a time period between the Third Intermediate and the Graeco-Roman times (806 BC–124 AD).

    http://tobias-lib.uni-tuebingen.de/volltexte/2013/6993/

    They got one complete mitochondrial sequence...definitely I2a.

    Does anyone know the precise date for this one?

  11. #11
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,694
    Points
    696,707
    Level
    100
    Points: 696,707, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 9.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Maciamo, does this map include the Fernandes et al 2012 data?
    http://www.cell.com/AJHG/abstract/S0...2811%2900545-3
    No, not yet.

  12. #12
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    70
    Posts
    4,380
    Points
    37,785
    Level
    59
    Points: 37,785, Level: 59
    Level completed: 95%, Points required for next Level: 65
    Overall activity: 19.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    just a bet about very scarce mt HGs not too reliable: I3 could very fit with proto-gaelic-celtic and ligurian tribes (look at W-Ireland, France, Portugal, N-Italy but other Italy places as Sicily- for the pleasure only!

  13. #13
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,305
    Points
    279,183
    Level
    100
    Points: 279,183, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    The mtDNA I2 Egyptian mummy is dated to 402-385 BC, which is into the Hellenic period. I suppose that means it could be "non-local". However, I don't know how common it was at that point for the Hellenes to marry into the native population and adopt their religious beliefs. Certainly, at the level of the royal family, the trappings of the religion were adopted, as was the practice of sibling marriage, although Cleopatra, according to the latest biography I've read, was the first of her family to actually speak Egyptian. Also, in her time, the city of Alexandria was still divided into roughly three quarters: the Egyptian quarter, the Hellene quarter, and the Jewish quarter, each with their own system of governance, and the three groups regularly rioted against one another.

    On the other hand, the probable origin of mtDNA "I" is nearby, and the age attributed to I2 by Behar is 6386.9 +/- 2448.5, so 5500 B.C., approximately, so I don't see why it couldn't be "local" in origin. Fernandes is giving a date of 10,000-15,000 (8,000-13, 000 B.C.) for the upstream I2'I3, and Behar dates it to 13,000 years ago, so that seems roughly comparable.

    Did anyone else think that once we got ancient mtDNA and yDNA results things would clear up? Not yet...not for me, lol.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Ike's Avatar
    Join Date
    20-12-10
    Posts
    1,128
    Points
    4,720
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,720, Level: 20
    Level completed: 18%, Points required for next Level: 330
    Overall activity: 3.0%


    Country: Yugoslavia



    Not enough results. We should all get shovels and start digging some human bones in our backyards :)

  15. #15
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    05-03-12
    Posts
    230
    Points
    4,753
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,753, Level: 20
    Level completed: 26%, Points required for next Level: 297
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I1*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5a1b4

    Ethnic group
    English/British Isles
    Country: UK - England



    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post
    Not enough results. We should all get shovels and start digging some human bones in our backyards :)
    Noo disastrous, needs to be handled carefully by archaeologists and specialists!
    'Wise men speak only of what they know' - J.R.R. Tolkien

  16. #16
    Junior Member Achievements:
    3 months registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
    05-03-13
    Posts
    4
    Points
    624
    Level
    6
    Points: 624, Level: 6
    Level completed: 37%, Points required for next Level: 126
    Overall activity: 11.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-CTS4299
    MtDNA haplogroup
    I1c

    Country: Spain - Catalonia



    Why Ashkenazi subclade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post


    It's impossible to attribute an ethnic origin to the whole of haplogroup I as it is divided in 6 main branches and many subclades, which have a very different geographic distribution.

    Subclades

    - I1a is found in Central and Eastern Europe, in the Caucasus and in the British isles. I1a1a seem to be found almost exclusively among the Finns. I1b has been found in Sweden, Poland and Kurdistan. I1c is an Ashkenazi subclade. IMHO, The I1 branch is of Balto-Slavic origin and linked to Y-haplogroup R1a. The Ashkenazi subclade may either be Levite (who are mostly R1a) or the result of intermarriages with Central Europeans.

    Please, can you explain me why do you said I1c is an Ashkenazi subclade? There are some people who are I1c and Ashkenazi but there are others, as myself, that do not have any know maternal ancestor who were Ashkenazi.

    In the FTDNA I project they name the I1c group as Ashkenazi clade but I don't know why. I have tried to find any clue but I've failed. I have asked a genetic scientific who as done the most cited papers on the founder effects in Jewish population and he has answered me that he had not studied this subclade.

    I am very interested in this subject, so if you have any other information, please, share it with us.

    Lluis.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,120
    Points
    29,699
    Level
    52
    Points: 29,699, Level: 52
    Level completed: 96%, Points required for next Level: 51
    Overall activity: 37.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by lluis View Post
    Please, can you explain me why do you said I1c is an Ashkenazi subclade? There are some people who are I1c and Ashkenazi but there are others, as myself, that do not have any know maternal ancestor who were Ashkenazi.

    In the FTDNA I project they name the I1c group as Ashkenazi clade but I don't know why. I have tried to find any clue but I've failed. I have asked a genetic scientific who as done the most cited papers on the founder effects in Jewish population and he has answered me that he had not studied this subclade.

    I am very interested in this subject, so if you have any other information, please, share it with us.

    Lluis.
    These names like ashkenazi, Germanic, Slavic, Berber etc are only used to advise people what the majority of that marker is. So your marker is in majority Ashkenazi, it could be only 20% , as the others are less percentage.
    But since linguistic, nationalistic and other terms are all propaganda based and lies, then we need to live with it.

    I do not know of any ancient device that could let ancient people know what marker they where and with that make them ashkenazi or not
    IMO, geographic terms are far better and have far less issues than the nationalistic rubbish we hear

  18. #18
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,120
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    "Mtdna I descended from mtdna N, whose descendants live in high frequencies in Northern Europe and northern Eurasia. I individuals used the near east as a "home base" of sorts, radiating from that region to populate much of the rest of the world. Today, members of I in the near east have older and more divergent lineages than those found in Northern Europe, indicating a greater time in the near east for those lineages to accumulate mutations. Therefore, early members of I likely moved north across the Caucasus, their lineages being carried into Europe for the first time during the middle upper Paleolithic. This wave of migration into Western Europe marked the appearance and spread of what archeologists call Aurignacian culture, which is distinguished by significant innovations in tool manufacture and invention; people began using a broader set of tool types, such as end-scrapers for preparing animal skins and tools for woodworking. In addition to stone, these modern humans used bone, ivory, antler, and shells to make tools. Jewelry, often an indicator of status, appears in Aurignacian culture as well; bracelets and pendants made of shells, teeth, ivory, and carved bone suggest the beginnings of a more complex social organization. Today, only about 10% of the mtdna lineages in Europe reflect the original early upper Paleolithic movements into the continent, and about 20% reflect more recent Neolithic movements. The rest of European mtdna, including the I lineage, arrived in Europe during the middle upper Paleolithic around 25,000 years ago. These lineages took part in the post-glacial expansions around 15,000 years ago as the ice sheets receded during the late upper Paleolithic".

  19. #19
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    05-03-14
    Posts
    14
    Points
    1,120
    Level
    8
    Points: 1,120, Level: 8
    Level completed: 85%, Points required for next Level: 30
    Overall activity: 3.0%


    Country: France



    Hi,

    My haplogorup is I3a1 ad my genbankid HQ420832 was used by Behar/FtDna to determine this subclade

    You wrote "- I3 is found mostly in northwestern Europe (France, British Isles, and to a lower extent Italy and West Germany). Probably associated with the Proto-Italo-Celtic branch of the Indo-Europeans."

    Do we have any frequencies of I3 in Europe ?


    Regards

  20. #20
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    05-03-14
    Posts
    14
    Points
    1,120
    Level
    8
    Points: 1,120, Level: 8
    Level completed: 85%, Points required for next Level: 30
    Overall activity: 3.0%


    Country: France



    An I3a was found in Esperstedt, Germany in an early Bronze age burial - Unetice culture. ("Massive migration from the steppe is a source for Indo-European languages in Europe")

  21. #21
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-06-16
    Posts
    72
    Points
    2,020
    Level
    12
    Points: 2,020, Level: 12
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 130
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: France



    Quote Originally Posted by HQ420832 View Post
    An I3a was found in Esperstedt, Germany in an early Bronze age burial - Unetice culture. ("Massive migration from the steppe is a source for Indo-European languages in Europe")
    I3a mt-Hg was also found in Russia Yamnaya aDNA (3000 BC), It's also my Mt-Hg. I am rather interested in it's origins. It's pretty strange to have so many ancient DNA having this mt-Hg that is not so spread nowadays. Explanations?
    To my understanding, Haplogroup I is a descendant of N1, haplogroup found in West Eurasia.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •