How rare is T*?

[sepheroni]

Hello,

I just got my results from 23andme last month and it shows my Y haplogroup as T.

I looked and I don't have the M320/T1 mutation and P77 (T2 mutation / i4000222) doesn't seem to be tested with 23andme, or can it be that it is missing from my test results?

That would make me a T* or T2 right?

I am still doing research on my paternal line, but I don't have too much data yet, just going 4 generations back, and it probably came from Portugal as I was born in Brazil and have a portuguese last name (Souza).


Does anybody know for sure if 23andme tests for T2, if not, where can I get that tested?

Thanks!

[adamo]

T is a very rare paternal haplogroup....it is found in highest frequencies in Jordan,Egypt,Iraq and parts of Iran....found in lower frequencies among Turks, armenians....in Europe it peaks near the Aegean Sea off of islands like Chios and near Crete and also across Italy, Spain and Portugal is a 2-6% average in those more Mediterranean regions I would say. The Horn of Africa (Eritrea,Somalis,Ethiopia) actually has a considerable high. It can also be found in 5-15% of Egyptian lines and 15-20% of Jordanian lines and about 10-15% of Iraqi lines, 10-13% of Assyrian lines towards Anatolia....several cities across Iran have interesting frequencies 12-15% range which is a global high. Portuguese Jews have 15% T, and so do Kurdish and Iraqi Jews.....Iranian Jews also have 14%. It is present in 12% of Palestinian males 10% of Armenians but is rarer in Syria and Lebanon. It seems to be barely present in Ashkenazi Jews, or Jews from Israel though oddly. Among all Jews it is most prevalent in the mizrahim Jews of the Iraq/Iran regions.

[adamo]

It's interesting that we both have T and we are both Mediterranean Europeans. Our haplogroup most likely arrived more recently to Europe from the Middle East, during the Neolithic revolution 10,000-15,000 years ago.

[sepheroni]

Yes, about the jewish, that might be where I got mine, 23andme shows me with 0.1% of Ashkenazi, it is a very low percentage, but it is there.

But I am really curious to know what subclade I am. I see you have T1a1a, where did you test yours?

I also saw that the SNPs on 23andme seems to be different than the ones here or other websites, they have:
T1-M320 (rs13447374) - I don't have the mutation
T2-P77 (i4000222) - My results don't have that data (or 23andme doesn't test it at all)

While eupedia shows:
T1-L206
T1a-M70
.... P77 would be T1a1a1

My L208 (rs35815655) shows as -- on my raw data, that means the data is missing or it was not tested right?

[adamo]

T is found in Jewish populations, as are J1,J2 and E3b. This does not necessarily make it Jewish, although there are certainly Jewish networks within the haplogroup T branch. Are you L208 as well? I did my test with genographic project 2.0 they told me I was M70 and L299+ (T1a1) but upon reviewing my subclades after transferring to FTDNA I saw I was L208+ as well so I guess I'm T1a1a. What you stated is correct M-184 is T*, T1 is L206, T1a is M70, L299 is T1a1, L208 is T1a1a, P77 is T1a1a1 and Z-709 is just downstream of that.

[adamo]

And sepheroni....usually when we are dealing with 0.1 of a percentage point, we can deduce that's a really small amount! Lol

[sepheroni]

Yes, I know it is a very low percentage. But it is there! lol, also if you look at the other side, 0.1% corresponds to one jewish person on your linage only 6-7 generations ago (or more people before that), so it is not that far away.

Looking at my raw data and at the snp table, this is what I found from my results:

T1a/M70 - Yes (23andme calls it only T)
T1a1/L299 - No data - I guess 23andme doesn't test that one?
T1a1a/L208 - No call - from their FAQ: Occasionally, a user's data may not allow us to determine his or her genotype confidently at a particular SNP. It is possible that future review will allow us to call the genotype, but until that time, the data does not appear.
T1a1a1/P77 - No data

So that makes me T1a so far.

I was wondering if other companies test for L299 and P77 or even further?

[adamo]

Sure, family tree DNA has very deep subclade testing options available...to me your T was either inherited by Jewish or ancient Phoenician ancestors colonizing probably southern Portugal. I doubt it has anything to with Greeks.

[sepheroni]

Thanks!

I think I will do a testing with familytree, I just checked the other snp's from the T tree, and 23andme didn't test any of them

[adamo]

Sounds good, good to know a Portuguese fellow is T as well lol

[Sile]

Yes, I know it is a very low percentage. But it is there! lol, also if you look at the other side, 0.1% corresponds to one jewish person on your linage only 6-7 generations ago (or more people before that), so it is not that far away.

Looking at my raw data and at the snp table, this is what I found from my results:

T1a/M70 - Yes (23andme calls it only T)
T1a1/L299 - No data - I guess 23andme doesn't test that one?
T1a1a/L208 - No call - from their FAQ: Occasionally, a user's data may not allow us to determine his or her genotype confidently at a particular SNP. It is possible that future review will allow us to call the genotype, but until that time, the data does not appear.
T1a1a1/P77 - No data

So that makes me T1a so far.

I was wondering if other companies test for L299 and P77 or even further?

You should look here for your rs numbers to see if they have a SNP
http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_YDNA_SNP_Index.html

L208

T1a1a

Page2

rs35815655

6796443

6736443

C->T

check for others

in regards to 0.1% ashkenazi for 23andme............this means that 1 person of your last 1024 related people maybe had some jewish in them. It likely it was a jewish girl who gave up her religion for love. If it was male , you ashkenazi/sephanic would be higher.

23andme state , they if its less than 5% it could be just "noise"


I was told ( most likely crap, but who knows), that you can drill into your rs numbers in 23andme to reveal other rs numbers in which you can discover a trail in the globe of your ancestors. some of mine are
L1b2 = L-M317 , with origins L-M317 is found at low frequency in Central Asia, Southwest Asia, and Central Europe

J2a1h2a1b = J-M318 ......Turkey, Georgia, Armenia, and southern Russia .
I do not know how factual it is

[adamo]

Sile, can you try tans figure out what level I'm at in he T phylogeny?:

CTS10278+, CTS10362+, CTS10416+, CTS10700+, CTS10879+, CTS109+, CTS11054+, CTS11078+, CTS11358+, CTS11556+, CTS11569+, CTS11575+, CTS11726+, CTS11746+, CTS125+, CTS12632+, CTS12657+, CTS150+, CTS1818+, CTS1996+, CTS2336+, CTS2611+, CTS2888+, CTS3271+, CTS3331+, CTS3431+, CTS3536+, CTS3585+, CTS3648+, CTS3654+, CTS3662+, CTS3837+, CTS3868+, CTS3996+, CTS4014+, CTS4085+, CTS4201+, CTS4364+, CTS4368+, CTS4443+, CTS4652+, CTS4740+, CTS4783+, CTS482+, CTS484+, CTS4916+, CTS493+, CTS5035+, CTS5175+, CTS5268+, CTS5318+, CTS5332+, CTS5336+, CTS5364+, CTS5457+, CTS550+, CTS5532+, CTS5542+, CTS5690+, CTS573+, CTS5987+, CTS6000+, CTS6004+, CTS6045+, CTS6135+, CTS6214+, CTS6275+, CTS6276+, CTS6375+, CTS6383+, CTS6577+, CTS6800+, CTS6805+, CTS6887+, CTS6888+, CTS6907+, CTS7164+, CTS7169+, CTS7263+, CTS7426+, CTS753+, CTS7922+, CTS7933+, CTS8004+, CTS8065+, CTS8243+, CTS8247+, CTS8397+, CTS8980+, CTS8994+, CTS9163+, CTS9268+, CTS9308+, CTS931+, CTS9506+, CTS9828+, F1046+, F1209+, F1302+, F1320+, F1329+, F1704+, F1714+, F1753+, F1767+, F2048+, F2075+, F2142+, F2155+, F2402+, F2587+, F2688+, F2710+, F2837+, F2985+, F2993+, F3111+, F3136+, F3335+, F3556+, F3692+, F719+, L132+, L15+, L16+, L162+, L208+, L298+, L299+, L350+, L453+, L454+, L455+, L468+, L470+, L490+, L498+, L566+, L781+, M139+, M168+, M235+, M272+, M294+, M42+, M70+, M89+, M94+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P14+, P141+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P151+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P166+, P187+, PAGES00078+, PAGES00129+, PF1016+, PF1029+, PF1031+, PF1040+, PF1046+, PF1061+, PF1092+, PF1097+, PF110+, PF1203+, PF1269+, PF1276+, PF15+, PF192+, PF210+, PF212+, PF223+, PF234+, PF258+, PF2591+, PF2593+, PF2599+, PF2600+, PF2608+, PF2611+, PF2615+, PF2624+, PF263+, PF2631+, PF2643+, PF272+, PF2745+, PF2747+, PF2748+, PF2749+, PF2770+, PF278+, PF292+, PF316+, PF325+, PF342+, PF500+, PF5518+, PF5519+, PF5526+, PF5529+, PF5531+, PF5535+, PF5536+, PF5537+, PF5566+, PF5567+, PF5568+, PF5586+, PF5587+, PF5588+, PF5589+, PF5590+, PF5592+, PF5593+, PF5594+, PF5602+, PF5603+, PF5604+, PF5607+, PF5608+, PF5609+, PF5610+, PF5612+, PF5613+, PF5657+, PF5658+, PF5659+, PF5660+, PF5661+, PF5664+, PF5666+, PF5673+, PF5674+, PF5678+, PF601+, PF667+, PF719+, PF720+, PF725+, PF7443+, PF7444+, PF7445+, PF7453+, PF7457+, PF7458+, PF7460+, PF7463+, PF7464+, PF7465+, PF7466+, PF7480+, PF7481+, PF779+, PF796+, PF803+, PF815+, PF821+, PF840+, PF844+, PF892+, PF937+, PF951+, PF954+, PF970+, V186+, V189+, V205+, V52+, V9+, Z526+

[sepheroni]

Is there a website where you can upload your Y chromossome raw data and match against other users to try to find a trail? I saw only some for autosomal data.

[Sile]

Is there a website where you can upload your Y chromossome raw data and match against other users to try to find a trail? I saw only some for autosomal data.

I do not know what Adamo is talking about, but the only site which keeps up to date trees records is below
http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpT.html

If its not in the tree and not in any notes on the page, then the marker has not been assigned ................his marker from what I saw along the furthest branch is L208+ ...mine is L446+

As for yourself, a 23andme test only has all trees until start of 2009. Unsure what you should do. ask
AlpAstur

d'Aviyés Vilelas-Balsera

he is project manager of T in 23andme .................you might be "related" ...............he asked me to compare and we are miles apart

[adamo]

According to my results, what subclade am I positive for?

[adamo]

Says I'm P128+, then I'm M89+, M70+, M272+, L566+, later on I'm L299+, L298+, L208+, L162+, L132+; what does that mean it's my genetic T sequence, what subclade am I.

[Sile]

Says I'm P128+, then I'm M89+, M70+, M272+, L566+, later on I'm L299+, L298+, L208+, L162+, L132+; what does that mean it's my genetic T sequence, what subclade am I.

see post #14

[adamo]

Ultimately though one cannot deny the frequency of hg T in Quraish and Banu Hashim associated regions of the Middle East...te Hashemites former sharifs of arabia's Mecca region today rule Jordan and once ruled the Hejaz region (northern Saudi Arabia) and Iraq as well. The Banu Hashim were "pure" Adnani Arabs from the north and central regions of Saudi Arabia. The Quraish were on the Red Sea coast at about central Saudi Arabia....they extended though from Yemen/Oman in the south to Jordan and Iraq in the north through the influence of Hashemite people's, modern Hashemite titles of rulers and nobility are found across Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Syria and Iraq.

[adamo]

The Hashemites were known in Arabic as Hussaini's. People with the surname Al-Hussaini are descendants of the Islamic Prophet Muhammad through the lineage of his grandson Imam Husayn ibn Ali
Imam Husayn ibn Ali was the son of prophet Muhammad's daughter Fatima and son-in-law and Caliph Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib.
Husseinis are primarily found in the Arab world, South Asia, and Iran.

[adamo]

Today Hashemites have spread in many places where Muslims have ruled, namely Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan, Palestine, Syria, Egypt, Somalia, Yemen, Djibouti, United Arab Emirates, Ethiopia, Northern Sudan, and Turkey. Some Hashemites in these countries carry the title Sayyid. Many members of the Banu Hashim have spread out across the world but so far there has been no attempt to register them all under one record. The Royal family of Morocco also claims ancestry from Ali (Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib) but they do not use Hashemite as their dynastic name. The Awan tribe of Pakistan also trace their ancestry from Ali.
The Awan deserve close attention, because of their historical importance and, above all, because they settled in the west, right up to the edge of Baluchi and Pashtun territory. Legend has it that their origins go back to Imam Ali and his second wife, Hanafiya. Historians describe them as valiant warriors who imposed their supremacy on the Janjua and other Rajput tribes in part of the Salt Range, and established large colonies all along the Indus to Sind, and a densely populated centre not far from Lahore. Such types of claims are very common in in the Indian subcontinent.

[adamo]

Seems in link with the spread of hg t

[Seumas]

After a couple of tests conducted by FTDNA I opted for a Raw Data Chromo2 test by BritainsDNA.
I was hoping to be able to use the data in the tools that FTDNA use, but unfortunately, they're quite different.
Does anyone know of any other tools available that could help me make sense of this raw data?
Thanks

[adamo]

Please; what ethnic origin are you??

[Sile]

After a couple of tests conducted by FTDNA I opted for a Raw Data Chromo2 test by BritainsDNA.
I was hoping to be able to use the data in the tools that FTDNA use, but unfortunately, they're quite different.
Does anyone know of any other tools available that could help me make sense of this raw data?
Thanks

show me a sample of your raw data, please!

[Seumas]

Apt	GG	negative
CTS10003	CC	negative
CTS10008	GG	positive
CTS10010	GG	negative
CTS10011	GG	positive
CTS10021	AA	negative
CTS10028	TT	negative
CTS10032	GG	negative
CTS10044	GG	negative
CTS10048	AA	negative
CTS10049	AA	negative
CTS10051	GG	negative
CTS10053	GG	negative
CTS10054	GG	negative
CTS10056	AA	negative
CTS1005	GG	negative
CTS10063	CC	negative
CTS10065	GG	negative
CTS10082	CC	negative
CTS10099	AA	negative
CTS10100	GG	negative
CTS10102	GG	negative
CTS10107	GG	negative
CTS10108	GG	negative
CTS10109	AA	negative
CTS10113	AA	negative
CTS10114	GG	negative
CTS10117	AA	negative
CTS1011	AA	negative
CTS10126	GG	negative
CTS10130	AA	negative
CTS10131	GG	negative
CTS10149	AA	negative
CTS10152	AA	negative
CTS10171	CC	negative
CTS10172	GG	negative
CTS10173	GG	negative
CTS10179	AA	negative
CTS1017	GG	negative
CTS10184	TT	negative
CTS10185	AA	negative
CTS101	AA	negative
CTS10206	TT	negative
CTS10209	GG	negative
CTS10210	AA	negative
CTS10228	AA	negative
CTS10234	AA	negative
CTS10239	CC	negative
CTS10243	AA	negative
CTS10245	AA	negative
CTS10248	AA	negative
CTS10268	GG	negative
CTS10274	AA	negative
CTS10277	GG	negative
CTS1027	AA	negative
CTS10283	GG	negative
CTS10286	CC	negative
CTS10289	AA	negative
CTS10298	AA	negative
CTS10299	AA	negative
CTS10300	AA	negative
CTS10303	AA	negative
CTS10305	AA	negative
CTS1030	AA	negative
CTS10311	GG	negative
CTS10317	GG	negative
CTS10320	GG	negative
CTS10322	AA	negative
CTS10323	AA	negative
CTS10324	TT	negative
CTS10328	AA	negative
CTS1032	GG	negative
CTS10331	AA	negative
CTS10333	AA	negative
CTS10334	AA	negative
CTS10336	CC	negative
CTS10351	AA	negative
CTS10355	AA	negative
CTS10357	GG	negative
CTS10404	CC	negative
CTS10407	AA	negative
CTS10408	AA	negative
CTS10410	CC	negative
CTS10412	AA	negative
CTS10416	AA	positive
CTS10427	CC	negative
CTS10430	CC	negative
CTS10433	GG	negative
CTS10435	CC	negative
CTS10440	GG	negative
CTS10443	GG	negative
CTS10449	CC	negative
CTS1045	GG	negative
CTS10461	AA	negative
CTS10468	CC	negative
CTS10472	CC	negative
CTS10473	CC	negative
CTS10489	GG	negative