Automosal DNA test conflicting one another?

[English Lad]

Hi there,

I recently had an FTDNA family finder done, aswell as the YDNA12 and MTDNA Plus, but so far have only received my Family finder results.
I also, a few months back had a DNA test done with 23andme, what's interesting is the population references, as they're quite different.

Continent (Subcontinent)	Population	Percentage	Margin of Error
Europe (Western European)	Orcadian	93.73%	±1.91%
Middle East	Palestinian, Adygei, Bedouin, Bedouin South, Druze, Iranian, Jewish, Mozabite	6.27%	±1.91%

And here's my 23andme results,

Paternal = R1a1a
Maternal = W1

99.6 European,

87.3% North European
0.7% South European
< 0.1% East European
11.5% Nonspecific European

0.1% North African,

0.3% unassigned.

100% me :).



So, that's that. I'm hoping to have some expert advice on this, as I'm quite the novice. But which one should I be believing? Who's more accurate?

Apparently the FTDNA results are quite common among British men... Not sure why, but something to do with the way FTDNA reference their populations...


Anyhow, thanks!

[Jackson]

I think that's fairly normal. You should upload your data to GEDmatch, then you can use the admixture calculators which are very helpful.

[adamo]

Jackson, how is it normal for an Englishman to have Slavic y-DNA and mtdna W? It's very rare.

[adamo]

Unless he's from the Orkney islands where R1a is 20%; he represents about 1-5% of English men being R1a. All R1a in the British isles is linked to Viking presence.

[Sile]

Hi there,

I recently had an FTDNA family finder done, aswell as the YDNA12 and MTDNA Plus, but so far have only received my Family finder results.
I also, a few months back had a DNA test done with 23andme, what's interesting is the population references, as they're quite different.

Continent (Subcontinent)	Population	Percentage	Margin of Error
Europe (Western European)	Orcadian	93.73%	±1.91%
Middle East	Palestinian, Adygei, Bedouin, Bedouin South, Druze, Iranian, Jewish, Mozabite	6.27%	±1.91%

And here's my 23andme results,

Paternal = R1a1a
Maternal = W1

99.6 European,

87.3% North European
0.7% South European
< 0.1% East European
11.5% Nonspecific European

0.1% North African,

0.3% unassigned.

100% me :).



So, that's that. I'm hoping to have some expert advice on this, as I'm quite the novice. But which one should I be believing? Who's more accurate?

Apparently the FTDNA results are quite common among British men... Not sure why, but something to do with the way FTDNA reference their populations...


Anyhow, thanks!

from each of your middle-east group, run a line to london and pinpoint a mark (for each ) at 93.73% of kms from each ME land ....that's where you are from...my guess either kent or netherlands

[English Lad]

I think that's fairly normal. You should upload your data to GEDmatch, then you can use the admixture calculators which are very helpful.

I have recently finished uploading them, about an hour ago. Unfortunately it says the batching process hasn't been completed on my fTDNA and my 23andme says it's been only tokenized .

Unless he's from the Orkney islands where R1a is 20%; he represents about 1-5% of English men being R1a. All R1a in the British isles is linked to Viking presence.

Wow, that's interesting, I always thought Vikings were I1! Isn't R1a slavic? I guess that would prove the Viking-Slav relations were quite good back then lol.

from each of your middle-east group, run a line to london and pinpoint a mark (for each ) at 93.73% of kms from each ME land ....that's where you are from...my guess either kent or netherlands

I am from Kent, born, bred and that will be my Father's line. I haven't done my family tree, but I already know from my Grandfather the line in Kent goes too early 1800's ( probably further, just haven't researched it yet ), to a West ( my surname ) who was a Horse and Cart Driver. I'll still do as you say, it'll be interesting :)

Thank you!

[adamo]

R1a is Slavic......but the R1a in the British isles is found there because Vikings brought it over....as both Norway and Sweden have 20-25% of both R1a and R1b. I1 is a Viking genetic marker correct, but the R1a in the British isles is due to Viking, not Slavic presence.

[adamo]

And I'm gonna have to put a little dislike next to your comment as I sort of just ate you alive like a foetus, muy mmmuy mm

[English Lad]

And I'm gonna have to put a little dislike next to your comment as I sort of just ate you alive like a foetus, muy mmmuy mm

Woah, i'm confused about that one?

R1a is Slavic......but the R1a in the British isles is found there because Vikings brought it over....as both Norway and Sweden have 20-25% of both R1a and R1b. I1 is a Viking genetic marker correct, but the R1a in the British isles is due to Viking, not Slavic presence.

Ah that's very interesting, what's the common opinion of how R1a entered Scandinavia, early migrations? Slaves taken from raids?

[adamo]

No, Viking presence that's why R1a peaks in the north of Scotland on the orkney islands at 20%.

[adamo]

The rest of the peninsula has 1-4% R1a, maybe a few 5% pockets.

[English Lad]

Ah fair enough, it makes sense now. Thank you for your time :)

[adamo]

I don't know what to say; R1a simply isn't present that westwards in Europe. The British isles have pretty much no R1a. Or W for that matter.

[adamo]

Oddly enough, on your paternal side, it seems you would cluster closer to Russian, Polish, Slovenian; Slavic men.....you are very rare for an Englishman; you are just like Anderson cooper; one of those extremely rare Englishman positive for R1a1a (M17), a Slavic genetic marker within the greater indo-European group.

[English Lad]

It threw me off, I was expecting something like YDNA - R1b and Mtdna H, or something. I look forward to my FTDNA results on my Haplogroups, see what it says with further SNP testing etc

[adamo]

Your mtdna group is rare as well, not only in England but the world in general. Again; you seem to be the rarity among your peers although R1a is a European haplogroup as well; half of Russian men belong to it; and many Hungarian, Czech, Slovene etc. as well

[Kardu]

R1a is Slavic? Sorry but it's a silly over-generalization... R1a (and its many subclades) appear among many various ethnic and linguistic groups: Turkic, Persian, Arab, peoples of the Caucasus etc.

[adamo]

It arrived there later; with indo-European migrations from the Russian steppes

[Kardu]

It arrived there later; with indo-European migrations from the Russian steppes

Are you saying that R1a subclade common among modern day Slavic speakers is older than R1a of Iranians? :)

[ElHorsto]

Wow, that's interesting, I always thought Vikings were I1! Isn't R1a slavic? I guess that would prove the Viking-Slav relations were quite good back then lol.

If your R1a is a slavic one, then it also could come from the Saxons, because slavs (Obotrites, Polabians) were part of their ancestral land in north Germany.
In general, northern Germany has ~30% R1a, hence I find it odd that actually so few englishman are R1a. Scandinavia has as much R1a which is apparently of non-slavic origin, so it is as twice as odd.

[ElHorsto]

If your R1a is a slavic one, then it also could come from the Saxons, because slavs (Obotrites, Polabians) were part of their ancestral land in north Germany.
In general, northern Germany has ~30% R1a, hence I find it odd that actually so few englishman are R1a. Scandinavia has as much R1a which is apparently of non-slavic origin, so it is as twice as odd.

Also the R1a presence in Scandinavia and Lappland is a hint towards a possible european paleolithic or mesolithic origin of some R1a.

[Nobody1]

If your R1a is a slavic one, then it also could come from the Saxons, because slavs (Obotrites, Polabians) were part of their ancestral land in north Germany.
In general, northern Germany has ~30% R1a, hence I find it odd that actually so few englishman are R1a. Scandinavia has as much R1a which is apparently of non-slavic origin, so it is as twice as odd.

Doubtful;
That would imply that the Saxons had subjugated certain/several Polabian Slavs in order to have been a part of the migration and invasion of Britannia; But the subjugation of the Polabian Slavs occurred during the 12th cen AD and Britannia was already invaded and conquered by the Saxons by the mid 5th cen AD;

Gallic Chronicle - AD 441 / Chronicle of 452
HONORIUS XVI (410) -
Britanniae Saxonum incursione devastatae
The British provinces were devastated by an incursion of the Saxons
THEODOSIUS II XVIII/XVIIII (441) -
Britanniae, usque ad hoc tempus variis cladibus eventibusque latae in dicionem Saxon rediguntur
The British provinces, which to this time had suffered various defeats and misfortunes, are reduced to Saxon rule

The Saxons raided the channel as early as the 3rd cen AD and prob. also the coast of Britannia - hence the fortifications of the Saxon Shore - litus saxonicum in SE England;

Eutropius - Book IX
XXI During this period, Carausius, who, though of very mean birth, had gained extraordinary reputation by a course of active service in war, having received a commission in his post at Bononia, to clear the sea, which the Franks and Saxons infested, along the coast of Belgica and Armorica

[English Lad]

This is still very interesting, I eagerly await my YDNA results from FTDNA. Although I assume it'll need upgrading from 12 markers to minimum 37. If R1a in Britain is assigned to predominantly Viking/ ( Germanic? ) settlement, it'll probably be Norman or Jutes, I guess.

[ElHorsto]

Doubtful;
That would imply that the Saxons had subjugated certain/several Polabian Slavs in order to have been a part of the migration and invasion of Britannia; But the subjugation of the Polabian Slavs occurred during the 12th cen AD and Britannia was already invaded and conquered by the Saxons by the mid 5th cen AD;

Gallic Chronicle - AD 441 / Chronicle of 452
HONORIUS XVI (410) -
Britanniae Saxonum incursione devastatae
The British provinces were devastated by an incursion of the Saxons
THEODOSIUS II XVIII/XVIIII (441) -
Britanniae, usque ad hoc tempus variis cladibus eventibusque latae in dicionem Saxon rediguntur
The British provinces, which to this time had suffered various defeats and misfortunes, are reduced to Saxon rule

The Saxons raided the channel as early as the 3rd cen AD and prob. also the coast of Britannia - hence the fortifications of the Saxon Shore - litus saxonicum in SE England;

Eutropius - Book IX
XXI During this period, Carausius, who, though of very mean birth, had gained extraordinary reputation by a course of active service in war, having received a commission in his post at Bononia, to clear the sea, which the Franks and Saxons infested, along the coast of Belgica and Armorica

Of course you are right. But as a matter of small possibilities I recalled passages from an old book

Shore ,Origin of the Anglo-Saxon race, London 1906

page 86:

"The statement of Bede that the Rugini or Rugians were among the nations from whom the English were known to have descended was contemporary evidence of his own time."
...

page 87:

"The probability of some very early settlers in Britain having been Wends, and consequently that there was a Slavic element in the origin of the Old English race, is shown in another way...."

Fulltext:
http://archive.org/stream/originofan...ruoft_djvu.txt

Granted, weak evidence.

[Nobody1]

Of course you are right. But as a matter of small possibilities I recalled passages from an old book

Shore ,Origin of the Anglo-Saxon race, London 1906

page 86:
"The statement of Bede that the Rugini or Rugians were among the nations from whom the English were known to have descended was contemporary evidence of his own time."
...
page 87:

"The probability of some very early settlers in Britain having been Wends, and consequently that there was a Slavic element in the origin of the Old English race, is shown in another way...."

Fulltext:
http://archive.org/stream/originofan...ruoft_djvu.txt

Granted, weak evidence.

Might not be that weak after all;
Although the book equates the Rugii with the Ranen; The Rugini of Bede were still essentially the Germanic Rugier; The Ranen (part of the Wilzen) were the ones that were Polabian Slav peoples - one of the reasons i think the Polabian Slavs had a strong East Germanic element next to Warnen and Winuler;

Bede - Book V/IX
Quarum in Germania plurimas noverat esse nationes, a quibus Angli vel Saxones, qui nunc Britanniam incolunt, genus et originem duxisse noscuntur. Unde hactenus a vicina gente Britonum corrupti Germani nuncupantur. Sunt autem Fresones, Rugini, Dani, Hunni, antiqui Saxones, Boructuarii.
---
many of which nations he knew there were in Germania, from whom the Angles or Saxons, who now inhabit Britain, are known to have derived their origin; for which reason they are still corruptly called Garmani by the neighboring nation of the Britons. Such are the Frisians, the Rugini, the Danes, the Huns, the old Saxons, and the Boructuari(Bricteri:Franks or Saxons)

It all depends of which R1a lineages exist in Britain today;
Maybe Polabian Slavs (Wenden) were a part of the Anglo-Saxon realm but i would doubt those to be the Rugini (Rugier) of Bede;