New map of mtDNA haplogroup L

Yes, correct, but the place where it originated was East Africa. It reached all those other places later, as early humans started to migrate to other parts of the world out of Africa, as well as possibly later migrations/invasions/slavery.

East Africa then.. Ethiopia?

I wasn't trying to say that Etruscans carried L mtDNA, but that it might be brought to Italy that way. Ethiopians might have mixed with people from Anatolia. There are many different ways it could be brought to Italy, I suppose (during Roman empire for instance)
 
Apart from unusual Spain and Portugal - who have levels of mtDNA L as 18.2% (Alvarez et al 2010) and 22.0% (Pereira et al 2010) and other such high figures [page1 - post#19 / post#11] not found anywhere else in Europe - might also want to take note of the Eupedia map on page 1 and the data used for it;

For 22% and 18% are higher (basic math) than the 1.9% Tuscany (2.6% Volterra);

PS: The other "Celt"-Iberians (Knovas especially) might find your slander and assertions towards Angela very "helpful" and awesome, but i think its not very nice;
I know you are just a tro11, but in case somebody is reading your crap...the 18% is not for Spain but for a small municipality with a popoulation of only a few thousand people,..You can't compare that with an entire region like Tuscany, it's laughable your manipulation and distortion of reality.
And In the case of Alcacer Do Sal (22%) it's a municipality whose history is well known and well documented for being an transatlantic slave town, in other words, they are not fully ethnic portuguese but descendants of Slaves.
 
What a boorish, vulgar and completely ignorant response...Are you capable of processing academic information?

As to "the trouble on these websites", I don't know anything about it, because I don't frequent skinhead, racist sites, some of which were started by people whom I am informed are now thankfully behind bars. I didn't even know that they existed until recently. Now that I know about them, I am more than happy to donate some of my time to seeing them permanently put out of business, and I mean "ALL" of them.

This is the only "genetics" website which I frequent, other than anthrogenica, and I'm embarrassed even about that, given that my office administrator has banned this as a racist site as well, probably partly because of the bilge posted by you and your friends. I assure you that reading the few threads in which I am interested takes very little time...in your case, perhaps a speed reading course might be in order. Of course, reading and understanding population genetics research papers is another matter, but you obviously have no experience with that...

As for my private life situation, it's none of your business, but let's just say that through years of very hard work and whatever gifts I possess, I have earned my leisure. If, as I think I remember, you claim to be from Canada, you have no excuse not to do the same.

For the record, I am half Tuscan/eastern Ligurian, and extraordinarily proud of my people...without us, the world would be a much poorer place in every conceivable way, as it would be without Italians as a whole. Obviously, you must have been spawned by some group which we had neither the time nor the inclination to civilize, however imperfectly.

And please, to adopt a Roman name for these sites and then spout the bilge and filth that you do is an abomination. I sincerely hope you're young and unemployed and living in your mother's basement...for a grown man to engage in these childish games is ridiculous.

You call me VULGAR?

According to your gentle self I have been spawned and I spout filth.

It is obvious how have never been exposed to any form of higher education and you are the racist.

So in your view the world owes much to Italians when Italy as a modern nation only dates to 1861 (thanks to French and British assistance).
 
When you attack respected forum members such as Angela and Nobody1 because you don't like data they've published, I don't think it helps your credibility. And why do Iberians have a problem with the fact that they have a small but significant amount of "African" DNA? Why is that a problem for you? At the end of the day, all modern humans are very close cousins.

It's because some idiots bring nationality issues into these forums, when they fail to realise that all modern Europeans started life as non-europeans. The oldest and original europeans where neanderthals
 
Nobody1 is a troublemaker with high pretensions of being something of an "expert" (which he is plainly not) and with a very transparent agenda, nothing else, and has been so since the very start, his very firsts posts in these forums were in fact attempted manipulations and "spins" on this very subject of "African" DNA in Europe, something which very obviously immensely bothers him as long as the words "Africa" and "Italy" pop up in the same context ("coincidentally" so was the permanently banned "Wormhole", an Italian claiming to be Canadian.) Notice that the Tuscan user was not saying anything about Iberia or Iberians and was only wondering who brought these genetic markers to Italy, more specifically to Tuscany. But your pal Nobody1 just couldn't keep away from always trying to point fingers at "Iberians" and coming up with lies (like telling this user that his ancestry might be from Iberia supposedly to "explain" why he scores positive, as if no 100% native Italian could do so) and manipulations. His usual game.

My posts here about mtDNA L in Italy were simply in answer to those Nobody1, the usual manipulator/Spin-Doctor when it comes to this topic since way back when. So don't act so surprised.

Regarding your other complaints: as Vallicanus pointed out, you and some other Italian/Italian-descended users here are not really in any position to be criticizing other people in these forums since your behavior is not always the most exceptional either, and it is usually you who throw stones first, not the other way around. Do you want me to quote and post links to some of your provoking posts directed at Iberians in other threads to remind you of this fact?

who are these "some other Italian/Italian-descended users" ? I am very interested in your groupings of people based on nationality/descended nationality
 
You should be directing that query to the "respected forum members" whose behavior you are trying to condone. It seems it's them and some other Italians who are immensely bothered by the fact that they too "have a small but significant amount of African DNA".

Before pointing the finger, you should reveal who you are, everything is hidden away.........ethnicity, genetics etc ................what are you ashamed of ?
 
I know, I never said that user was Italian.

You confused people on targeting Italians when the person was portuguese/brazilian, why ?
 
See posts #4, #6 and #13. There is no valid excuse to leave out perfectly legitimate studies just because they don't say what some people want to hear or do not go along with whatever incorrect assumptions they may have (one particularly interesting one implied here was that the only way any study on mtDNA in Spain could result in 0% regarding L markers in any given area might be by using exclusively samples from the Basque region; totally incorrect assumption.)

Your missing the point......we all know L1, L2, L3 has origins in Africa.....N has origins in the caucasus etc .............but this is only origins and not where it only resided for thousands of year.
I like to see what L3 she is

I read recently that mutations occur on average every 4000 years, back or forward and that geographical changes ie migrations speeds up this mutation process initially before it subsides to "normality"
 
East Africa then.. Ethiopia?

I wasn't trying to say that Etruscans carried L mtDNA, but that it might be brought to Italy that way. Ethiopians might have mixed with people from Anatolia. There are many different ways it could be brought to Italy, I suppose (during Roman empire for instance)

Who did you test with? ...if it was 23andme, it would show your mutations from original to present, if not

use haplogrep...........they use the new tree#16

http://haplogrep.uibk.ac.at/index.html
 
23anMe yes. You mean the list of mutations in "ancestry tools"?

yes

this

haplogroup Mutation mapper

and


Global Similarity Map


Countries of Ancestry
 
I know you are just a tro11, but in case somebody is reading your crap...the 18% is not for Spain but for a small municipality with a popoulation of only a few thousand people,..You can't compare that with an entire region like Tuscany, it's laughable your manipulation and distortion of reality.
And In the case of Alcacer Do Sal (22%) it's a municipality whose history is well known and well documented for being an transatlantic slave town, in other words, they are not fully ethnic portuguese but descendants of Slaves.
Lol, LebRok (as usual) has sent me an "infraction" for the above message because to him "i'm insulting".
 
23anMe yes. You mean the list of mutations in "ancestry tools"?
My mtDNA is L3f1b
I have a French distant cousin (relative finder) who belongs exactly to the same line. Seems quite old in Europe, I'd say at least since the Roman period.
 
I have a French distant cousin (relative finder) who belongs exactly to the same line. Seems quite old in Europe, I'd say at least since the Roman period.

too date there does not seem to be many L3f1b..........according to data from torroni, behar and logan, from what I seen, there is about 95% in Europe, 1 in Dominican republic, 1 in Ethiopia and 1 in Tanzania

Haplogroups L2a1, L3f1b, L3b, and L1b are the most
frequent (over 3%) sub-Saharan haplogroups in Libyans.
Haplogroup L2a1 is common and apparently scattered
throughout Africa (Salas et al., 2002), and therefore its
geographical origin is difficult to assess. However, L1b,
L3b, and L3f1b have more restricted locations in Africa.
These haplogroups, together with other minor lineages
in Libya such as L2b, L2c, L3d, and L3e have a typical
Western Africa distribution (Salas et al., 2002; Harich
et al., 2010). Nonetheless, other minor lineages present
in Libya such as L0a, L3h, and L3x are more frequent in
Eastern Africa. Such haplogroup frequency distribution
suggests a predominantly Western origin of L lineages in
Libya with some minor admixture of Eastern lineages.


do tell me the etruscan-libyan connection will raise its head again from 20 years ago?!
 
yes

this

haplogroup Mutation mapper

and


Global Similarity Map


Countries of Ancestry

after clicking on haplogroup mutation mapper, and then "get information for a person's haplogroup" , this list appears:

L3f1b defining mutations
variantcallrCRSanc
i3002025189A
i3002034 G189A
i3001999 C1822T
i30007378527A
i3000790 T8932C
i3001017 A11440G
i5050027 A11440G
i300131914769A
i3001320 14769A
i300260514769A
rs2835767914769A
i504976714769A
i300180216292C
i300180316292C
i3001804 T16292C
L3f1 defining mutations
variantcallrCRSanc
i3002257 T5601C
rs3134801 C9950T
i5049954 C9950T
L3f defining mutations
variantcallrCRSanc
i3002071 C3396T
i5049769 C3396T
i4000907 C4218T
i3001392 C15514T
i504995315514T
i4001054 C16209T
L3b'f defining mutations
variantcallrCRSanc
L3 defining mutations
variantcallrCRSanc
rs2853519 G769G
i3001949 G769G
i5049944769G
rs28569821018G
i3001452 G1018G
L3'4 defining mutations
variantcallrCRSanc
rs41473347182C
i3001445182C
rs2854134 C3594C
rs28625947 C7256C
rs2854123 C13650C
i504992413650C
rs4145864516278C
i3001790 C16278C
L3'4'6 defining mutations
variantcallrCRSanc
rs1117205 A4104A
i1000010 G7521G
i3001488 G7521G
L2'3'4'6 defining mutations
variantcallrCRSanc
rs2857291195T
i3002066 T195T
rs41334645247G
i3001448247G
rs2853520 T825T
rs28538228655C
i3002650 C8655C
rs2853488 G10688G
rs28358282 T10810T
i3000954 T10810T
rs2853501 A13105A
i5049946 A13105A
rs2857287 C13506C
rs2857384715301G
i3001523 A15301G
i5050460 A15301G
i4990110 G16129G
i300153116129G
i300160516129G
rs4153474416129G
i4000590 C16187C
i4000591 C16187C
rs2869367516189T
i4000587 T16189T
L2-6 defining mutations
variantcallrCRSanc
i3001922 T152T
rs2856980 G2758G
rs2854130 T2885T
rs28546855 A7146A
rs1116907 C8468C
i3000730 C8468C
i5049841 C8468C
L1-6 defining mutations
variantcallrCRSanc
i3001869 T146T
rs41473347182C
i3001445182C
i3002160 C4312C
rs2854121 C10664C
rs2857285 T10915T
i504997410915T
rs2853496 G11914G
i5049758 G11914G
rs2853502 A13276A
rs2853514 A16230A
 
Global similarity map:

2qx5og4.png


2aakk7t.png


t9wrxc.png



And countries of origin:

jheipl.png


29m7zbs.png


zlajhu.png


245y91g.png


vgn5sh.png


2642utk.png
 
Global similarity map:

2qx5og4.png


2aakk7t.png


t9wrxc.png



And countries of origin:

jheipl.png


29m7zbs.png


zlajhu.png


245y91g.png


vgn5sh.png


2642utk.png

Maps 1 and 2, show you are from Romagna or le Marche areas.
Map 3 = south tyrol or maybe east tyrol area.

Basically, you have no tuscan in any of the maps, even though you live there now.

all the other data indicates you are more Italian to me, that is for longer period .

I have relatives in Lucca ( tuscany) the Benedetti's ( who moved from Rimini in Romagna a while ago )................email me privately IF you think you have relatives in that area ( I am in 23andme also). We might have some relatives.

Going by all the black drops, you have been busy in organising some "relatives" in 23andme :)
 
anybody know why on those maps North Italians are below the big Italian group? the axis in the left says north/south with north up..
 
anybody know why on those maps North Italians are below the big Italian group? the axis in the left says north/south with north up..

I don't know unless north italian only indicates NW Italy , i suspect its upside down and the sardinian was thrown in as a distant side marker.....maybe a programmers fantasy.
but Fla88 23andme conflict from where she currently could be....which is tuscany

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

maybe 23andme gives data for only 500 years ago, no earlier or no later


EDIT: but I also have conflict with her appearing here

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