Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 149

Thread: Y-DNA of Sumerians?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points
    Dale Cooper's Avatar
    Join Date
    22-03-11
    Location
    Zadar, (Dalmatia) Croatia
    Posts
    49
    Points
    2,718
    Level
    14
    Points: 2,718, Level: 14
    Level completed: 90%, Points required for next Level: 32
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a1b

    Ethnic group
    Croatian
    Country: Croatia



    Y-DNA of Sumerians?

    Well considering that Sumerians are the first human civilization in true meaning of word: civilization, and they are pre-semitic people of Mesopotamia with unknown origin and with non-semitic language, I am very curious does anyone know to which y-dna haplogroup they belonged? I mean, is there any relevant theory at least? or some research?

    Thank you

  2. #2
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,121
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    Probably a heavy J1 y-DNA predominance with minor T and E3b substratums ( every tenth man for each I would say.) I would suspect the first Sumerians of southern Iraq to have a genetic composition more similar to Saudi Arabians, Jordanians, Yemenites etc. (Semitic Arabs proper). J2 probably came about more towards turkey/Syria/Iraq with the Assyrians and Urartians; the latter being a proto-Armenian people. The J1 sphere of influence is more like southern Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, parts of Syria, Israel, Palestine, Yemen, Oman, UAE; the Arabian peninsula proper has the highest J1 frequencies. "Peninsular Arab" J1 is also found in a quarter to a fifth of north-African men from Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, and Algeria, frequencies are lower but present in morocco (10-15%) parts of Saudi Arabia and Yemen and southern Iraq have 60-80% J1. j2 on the other hand is most frequent in turkey, Lebanon, Armenia, Georgia, Iran, Azerbaijan, northern Iraq,parts of Israel etc. it is more associated with the Assyrians.

  3. #3
    Elite member Achievements:
    VeteranThree FriendsRecommendation Second Class25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    User with most referrers

    Join Date
    14-11-10
    Posts
    2,504
    Points
    25,862
    Level
    49
    Points: 25,862, Level: 49
    Level completed: 32%, Points required for next Level: 688
    Overall activity: 13.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a1a1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV2a1 +G13708A

    Ethnic group
    Kurdish
    Country: Germany



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    Probably a heavy J1 y-DNA predominance with minor T and E3b substratums ( every tenth man for each I would say.) I would suspect the first Sumerians of southern Iraq to have a genetic composition more similar to Saudi Arabians, Jordanians, Yemenites etc. (Semitic Arabs proper). J2 probably came about more towards turkey/Syria/Iraq with the Assyrians and Urartians; the latter being a proto-Armenian people. The J1 sphere of influence is more like southern Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, parts of Syria, Israel, Palestine, Yemen, Oman, UAE; the Arabian peninsula proper has the highest J1 frequencies. "Peninsular Arab" J1 is also found in a quarter to a fifth of north-African men from Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, and Algeria, frequencies are lower but present in morocco (10-15%) parts of Saudi Arabia and Yemen and southern Iraq have 60-80% J1. j2 on the other hand is most frequent in turkey, Lebanon, Armenia, Georgia, Iran, Azerbaijan, northern Iraq,parts of Israel etc. it is more associated with the Assyrians.
    I think you didn't read what he wrote. The Summerians were the first and non semitic population of southern Mesopotamia. scientists believe they had a more ancient connections with some groups of Anatolia, Caucasus, Elam and Dravidian groups. But what kind of language family they belonged to is still unknown. Modern Iraqi Arabs (Semites) are not representative for ancient Sumerians. With South Iraqis you probably mean Marsh Arabs.

    Well one think about this theory doesn't fits. The Marsh Arabs might or might not be descend of ancient Sumerians. Lets assume they have ties to Sumerians. What is so interesting about Marsh Arabs autosomal just like all Iraqi Arabs, they show most of their genetic ties to Northern West Asia (Kurds, Assyrians, Iranians, Anatolians) but than show strong signs of Southern West Asia (Saudi Arabia) inpact.
    Based on yDNA they are almost exclusively J1c3d, this explains the Southern West Asian input. This high frequency, even more than Saudi Arabs themselves, can be explained through bottle-neck-effect.

    their maternal line shows as expected connection to surrounding populations of Northern West Asia.

    In other words it appears like Marsh Arabs are autosomal descend predominantly of Sumerians BUT based on ydna and mtdna it appears like an Arabian Islamic "Elite" took allot of local Mesopotamian women (as we know in Islam heterogamy is allowed and people can took up to 4 women). This explains why yDNA and autosomal DNA contradict each other.


    As to Sumerians I assume they were some kind of yDNA G*, J*, LT* and some R* lineages.
    Last edited by Alan; 10-11-13 at 17:43.

  4. #4
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,633
    Points
    651,696
    Level
    100
    Points: 651,696, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 3.0%


    Ethnic group
    Celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Nobody can know at present to which haplogroups the Sumerians belonged without ancient Y-DNA tests. The population of Mesopotamia underwent perhaps more changes due to wars, conquests, diseases, etc. than almost any other population on Earth in the last 6000 years. Semitic people are mostly associated with haplogroups E-M123 and J1-P58. Nowadays J1-P58 is the most frequent haplogroup in southern Iraq, but I seriously doubt that it was present at all at the time of ancient Sumer.

    A few Sumerian mtDNA samples have been tested and include haplogroups L2a1, R, H14a, J1a1 and U4. The presence of hg L is surely a sign that E1b1b (probably E-M123) was already present among ancient Sumerians. Other Neolithic lineages like G, J2, R1b(xL23) and T are also likely. The presence of mtDNA U4 is, I believe, a sign that ancient Sumerians carried some R1 paternal lineages. It's unlikely that R1a had penetrated in Mesopotamia so early, so I would rather go for older subclades of R1b.

    EDIT : the Sumerian mtDNA was from the Syrian city of Mari, not from Sumer itself, and from the Late Sumerian period. The U4 might indeed be linked to the presence of R1a or R1b people, perhaps the Gutians or early Indo-European invasions.

    After reconsideration of the age of J1-P58 in southern Mesopotamia, I think that the original Sumerians and Akkadians belonged mostly to haplogroups J1-P58, E-M123, G2a and T.
    Last edited by Maciamo; 05-01-14 at 21:40.
    My book selection---Follow me on Facebook and Twitter --- My profile on Academia.edu and on ResearchGate ----Check Wa-pedia's Japan Guide
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "What is the use of living, if it be not to strive for noble causes and to make this muddled world a better place for those who will live in it after we are gone?", Winston Churchill.

  5. #5
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,121
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Are you trying to imply that there is no genetic continuity in the Sumer region since Sumerian times to now? They were a non-Semitic rare people's......what were they hg T,L,F? I personally doubt it; there must be genetic continuity in the region over the past 5,000-10,000 at the minimum.

  6. #6
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,121
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Hg L? Lol. What does that have anything to do with Sumerians; L peaks in Pakistan and is also "present" in parts of Iran, Afghanistan, India, Tajikistan etc; I don't see the link. T seems much more plausible as a substratum among the first Sumerians though.

  7. #7
    Baron Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience Points
    RHAS's Avatar
    Join Date
    25-04-13
    Posts
    266
    Points
    12,433
    Level
    33
    Points: 12,433, Level: 33
    Level completed: 69%, Points required for next Level: 217
    Overall activity: 6.0%


    Country: Netherlands



    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Cooper View Post
    Well considering that Sumerians are the first human civilization in true meaning of word: civilization, and they are pre-semitic people of Mesopotamia with unknown origin and with non-semitic language, I am very curious does anyone know to which y-dna haplogroup they belonged? I mean, is there any relevant theory at least? or some research?

    Thank you
    "While noting that multiple haplogroups are likely involved in the spread of languages through the middle east, Dr. King noted a correlation between very old Middle Eastern languages of uncertain origin and Haplogroup J2 while at the same time theorizing that Haplogroup J1 may have been involved in spreading Semitic languages through the region. These old languages possibly linked to J2 are known to have existed in Mesopotamia and the Northern Levant and this substratum is sometimes referred to as "Banana" languages due to their syllabic duplication."
    M172 Blog - Neolithic Migrations in the Near East and Aegean, 2009.
    http://m172.blogspot.nl/2009/07/neolithic-migrations-in-near-east-and.html

    "Proto-Euphratean was considered by some Assyriologists (for example Samuel Noah Kramer), to be the substratum language of the people that introduced farming into Southern Iraq in the Early Ubaid period (5300-4700 BC). Benno Landsberger and other Assyriologists argued that by examining the structure of Sumerian names of occupations, as well as toponyms and hydronyms, one can suggest that there was once an earlier group of people in the region who spoke an entirely different language, often referred to as Proto-Euphratean. Terms for "farmer", "smith", "carpenter", and "date" (as in the fruit), also do not appear to have a Sumerian or Semitic origin. Post-Soviet linguists coined a different term, "banana languages," proposed by Igor Dyakonov and Vladislav Ardzinba, based on a characteristic feature of multiple personal names attested in Sumerian texts, namely reduplication of syllables (like in the word banana): Inanna, Zababa, Chuwawa, Bunene etc. The same feature was attested in some other unclassified Oriental languages, including Minoan language."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Euphratean_language




    (Image: Inanna)



    (Image: Asasara)
    Last edited by RHAS; 14-11-13 at 08:46.

  8. #8
    Elite member Achievements:
    VeteranThree FriendsRecommendation Second Class25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    User with most referrers

    Join Date
    14-11-10
    Posts
    2,504
    Points
    25,862
    Level
    49
    Points: 25,862, Level: 49
    Level completed: 32%, Points required for next Level: 688
    Overall activity: 13.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a1a1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV2a1 +G13708A

    Ethnic group
    Kurdish
    Country: Germany



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    Hg L? Lol. What does that have anything to do with Sumerians; L peaks in Pakistan and is also "present" in parts of Iran, Afghanistan, India, Tajikistan etc; I don't see the link. T seems much more plausible as a substratum among the first Sumerians though.
    First of I would never use the names of modern artificially states like Pakistan, to describe the geographic origin of an Haplogroup, if these countries are made up of much older, geographically from each other good separated different populations.

    To be more precise Haplogroup L* peaks in Balochistan parts of Balochistan are modern day West Pakistan (geographically actually part of West Asia) and Southeast Iran.

    But as we should already know from now on. A Haplogroup does not have to originate there, where it peaks. More important is where this Haplogroup shows it's highest diversity.

    For example Haplogroup R1a* peaks among some Indian groups up to 80%! But all of this belong to one and the same subclade, which brings us to the conclusion that it ist the result of one male dominated wave of migration into this area.

    The same is with Haplogroup L*. It has it's highest diversity in Balochistan, Mesopotamia and the rest of the Iranian plateau. So we can assume that it's origin lies in either of these three locations. And considering that the Dravidians very likely came from somewhere in Mesopotamia/Iran and reached the Indus Valley through a route on the coastline of Iran. I assume this Haplogroup is an introduction to Baluchistan from further West.

  9. #9
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Community Award
    bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    4,759
    Points
    34,203
    Level
    56
    Points: 34,203, Level: 56
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 47
    Overall activity: 50.0%


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by RHAS View Post
    "While noting that multiple haplogroups are likely involved in the spread of languages through the middle east, Dr. King noted a correlation between very old Middle Eastern languages of uncertain origin and Haplogroup J2 while at the same time theorizing that Haplogroup J1 may have been involved in spreading Semitic languages through the region. These old languages possibly linked to J2 are known to have existed in Mesopotamia and the Northern Levant and this substratum is sometimes referred to as "Banana" languages due to their syllabic duplication."
    M172 Blog - Neolithic Migrations in the Near East and Aegean, 2009.
    http://m172.blogspot.nl/2009/07/neolithic-migrations-in-near-east-and.html

    "Proto-Euphratean was considered by some Assyriologists (for example Samuel Noah Kramer), to be the substratum language of the people that introduced farming into Southern Iraq in the Early Ubaid period (5300-4700 BC). Benno Landsberger and other Assyriologists argued that by examining the structure of Sumerian names of occupations, as well as toponyms and hydronyms, one can suggest that there was once an earlier group of people in the region who spoke an entirely different language, often referred to as Proto-Euphratean. Terms for "farmer", "smith", "carpenter", and "date" (as in the fruit), also do not appear to have a Sumerian or Semitic origin. Post-Soviet linguists coined a different term, "banana languages," proposed by Igor Dyakonov and Vladislav Ardzinba, based on a characteristic feature of multiple personal names attested in Sumerian texts, namely reduplication of syllables (like in the word banana): Inanna, Zababa, Chuwawa, Bunene etc. The same feature was attested in some other unclassified Oriental languages, including Minoan language."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Euphratean_language


    very interesting
    my guess was J2 too
    Summerians still descend from the first farmers in Mesopotamia, and they should be J2.
    Akkadians came from elsewhere and spoke Semitic. I'd say J1, but that is allready a more uncertain.

  10. #10
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,121
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    It peaks at 10% in southeast Iran; even afghanistan's Pashtun people have 15% L; but this is certainly not a spread across the entire country. Pakistan has at least 10% across most of the country with small pockets of up to 20-25% hg L.

  11. #11
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,121
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    As for the Dravidians, they are in no way characterized by y-DNA L (10%) having much more y-DNA H (35% on average). R1a is found in 50% of Indian males to most peoples surprise, with a peak towards the north of course where the indo-Aryan's would have settled.

  12. #12
    Elite member Achievements:
    VeteranThree FriendsRecommendation Second Class25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    User with most referrers

    Join Date
    14-11-10
    Posts
    2,504
    Points
    25,862
    Level
    49
    Points: 25,862, Level: 49
    Level completed: 32%, Points required for next Level: 688
    Overall activity: 13.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a1a1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV2a1 +G13708A

    Ethnic group
    Kurdish
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    It peaks at 10% in southeast Iran; even afghanistan's Pashtun people have 15% L; but this is certainly not a spread across the entire country. Pakistan has at least 10% across most of the country with small pockets of up to 20-25% hg L.
    I think you slightly misunderstood me. As I said where it peaks is not very relevant. It has a high diversity in Iran, Balochistan, Mesopotamia and Central Asia. R1a* peaks at almost 80% among some Indian groups but it's all downstream z93.

    So L has either a South_Central Asian, Balochi, Iranian or Mesopotamian origin. All four are a possibility. That It's frequency peaks in South_Central Asia (especially among Kalash it is very frequent) doesn't mean much.
    Last edited by Alan; 21-11-13 at 13:07.

  13. #13
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,121
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    I know, just making observations. Well I guess L's diversity is high in Mesopotamia but what are it's frequencies there; less than a percentage point?

  14. #14
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,121
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    Keeping in mind that y-DNA L descends from K as it's sister T was; I presume a Pakistani origin for y-DNA L. The k mutation took place in central Iran I estimate; further out from it's father F that probably originated near southern Iraq. Same for y-DNA T, they give it an east Iranian/afghan origin.

  15. #15
    Elite member Achievements:
    VeteranThree FriendsRecommendation Second Class25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    User with most referrers

    Join Date
    14-11-10
    Posts
    2,504
    Points
    25,862
    Level
    49
    Points: 25,862, Level: 49
    Level completed: 32%, Points required for next Level: 688
    Overall activity: 13.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a1a1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV2a1 +G13708A

    Ethnic group
    Kurdish
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    I know, just making observations. Well I guess L's diversity is high in Mesopotamia but what are it's frequencies there; less than a percentage point?
    No considerably higher. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Y-DNA.svg.png

    In Balochistan (Southeast Iran and West Pakistan) it reaches over 16%. In South Iran/South Mesopotamia it reaches over 5%. In Central Asia, especially Afghanistan, it also reaches very high level.


    So it must have originated somewhere around modern day Iran. Either in Iran or, slightly West or East of it.

  16. #16
    Elite member Achievements:
    VeteranThree FriendsRecommendation Second Class25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    User with most referrers

    Join Date
    14-11-10
    Posts
    2,504
    Points
    25,862
    Level
    49
    Points: 25,862, Level: 49
    Level completed: 32%, Points required for next Level: 688
    Overall activity: 13.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a1a1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV2a1 +G13708A

    Ethnic group
    Kurdish
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    Keeping in mind that y-DNA L descends from K as it's sister T was; I presume a Pakistani origin for y-DNA L. The k mutation took place in central Iran I estimate; further out from it's father F that probably originated near southern Iraq. Same for y-DNA T, they give it an east Iranian/afghan origin.
    As far as I am aware, scientists place the origin of T in Western Asia. Only some of its subclades are believed to have mutated in Central Asia.

    This is another indication in favor of an West Asian origin of yDNA L. But as mentioned L could have it's roots in Iran or slightly further West (Mesopotamia) or East (Balochistan,Afghanistan).

  17. #17
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    I believe that the Sumerians were J2a, R1a* and maybe even R1*

  18. #18
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,121
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    The sumerians of southern iraq? probably none of those lineages.

  19. #19
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    The sumerians of southern iraq? probably none of those lineages.
    Sumerians came from Eastern Anatolia or Zagros mountains. They were not Semitic. They were the first sun and bull worshipers. Later, the Semites (Assyrians, Akkadians, Arabs) that came from the Levant and the Arabian Peninsula erased Sumerian heritage in Southern Iraq.

  20. #20
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,121
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    So you believe that the sumerians, first colonists of southern iraq were made up of the first indo-european men with the most basal R1 branches, what ever made you believe that? Suddenly y-dna F , T and L seem alot less farfetched. In fact i dont even see why J1 was fully eliminated as a possibility.

  21. #21
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    Some Sumerians farmers migrated into the Indus Valley. Inthat area there's a lot J2a (& G2a) and R1a* and almost no other 'West Asian' haplogroups or 'Near Eastern' like J1. So West Asians (Sumerians and other proto-Iranics) that migrated into Indus valley belonged most probablyto J2a and R1a!

  22. #22
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,121
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    Listen, R1a was certainly among the indo-European indo-Iranians that invaded Iran, but I truly don't think R1a has anything to do with early Sumerians.

  23. #23
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,121
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    R1a has been present in India from a very different source than Sumerian invaders lolllll, trust me, the indo-Aryan's where R1a and a branch of indo-Europeans; R1a is certainly present in Central Asia, but this is due to indo-European expansions.

  24. #24
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    R1a is originally either from Central Asia or the Iranian Plateau. Even R1a* type to which I do belong is much older than the most modern subclades of R1a in Eastern Europe. My R1a* is ANCESTRAL to the European R1a and not vice versa. The R1a* haplogroup to which I do belong is not from Euriope. So, I mean, if R1* is from Central Asia or the Iranian Plateau, if R1b is from that region, if R2 is from that region, why should R1a NOT be from that region? That wouldn't make any sense. R1a folks didn't have wings, they couldn't fly, lol. Like R1*, R2*, R1b is also R1a originally not far from the source... The Sumerians were not Semitic, so it's a HUGE chance that the Sumerians also belonged to R1a, because there's a lot R1a in the area where Sumerians lived...

  25. #25
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    Listen, R1a was certainly among the indo-European indo-Iranians that invaded Iran, but I truly don't think R1a has anything to do with early Sumerians.
    Indo-Iranians NEVER invaded the Iranian Plateau. Why? Because proto-Iranic tribes ARE and were native to the Iranian Plateau! I mean, my race is Iranic, I've almost for 30% Gedrosia genes in me, I do belong to hg. R1a*. So where do you thing my Gedrosia genes are from???

Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •