Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast
Results 76 to 100 of 147

Thread: Y-DNA of Sumerians?

  1. #76
    Elite member Achievements:
    VeteranThree FriendsRecommendation Second Class25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    User with most referrers

    Join Date
    14-11-10
    Posts
    2,504
    Points
    25,862
    Level
    49
    Points: 25,862, Level: 49
    Level completed: 32%, Points required for next Level: 688
    Overall activity: 13.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a1a1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV2a1 +G13708A

    Ethnic group
    Kurdish
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post

    If I am not mistaken this sub clade is also found in Central Asia.

    Well I seem to have been wrong in this point. According to Wikipedia at least, R1a* is not found in Central Asia.
    Last edited by Alan; 15-12-13 at 18:21.

  2. #77
    Elite member Achievements:
    VeteranThree FriendsRecommendation Second Class25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    User with most referrers

    Join Date
    14-11-10
    Posts
    2,504
    Points
    25,862
    Level
    49
    Points: 25,862, Level: 49
    Level completed: 32%, Points required for next Level: 688
    Overall activity: 13.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a1a1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV2a1 +G13708A

    Ethnic group
    Kurdish
    Country: Germany



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    But the thing is that Parthians spoke almost the same language as the Medes, a Western Iranian language, closely related with Kurdish language
    Exactly my point but this wasn't what you said at first. You said Parthians were Eastern Iranians. But I corrected you by saying they were basically Medes with more Scythian admixture. So if they were Medes they couldn't be East Iranians but Northwest Iranians.

    The reason why it is so closely connected to Kurdish is because it is the intermediate state between Medic and Kurdish.

    Parthians were basically a successors of the Medes with an early Scythian Elite (the Parni).

    This wasn't the first time Medes came in contact with Scythians. This is why I wrote "more Scythian admixture". Even earlier they had the Royal Scythian marching into Media and ruling it for several decades. Also Cimmerians are attested in Media. The Medes were in frequent contact to Scythians.

    Also I red somewhere that sources say the Medes were basically the Mitanni Elite who were forced out by the Assyrians.

  3. #78
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    And I wrote before that the Medes, Persians and Parthians were almost identical to each other. They came from the same source of ancestors, like 3 blood brothers from the same parents. They were the Umman Manda (Aryans) of the Iranian Plateau. And yeah, the direct ancetors (parents) of the Medes, Persians and Parthians were the Mitanni / Matiene. Mitanni succeeded Sumerians in Kurdistan. Mitanni were 'proto-Iranic' and not 'Vedic' at all like some ignorant folks claim.

  4. #79
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    69
    Posts
    4,134
    Points
    31,985
    Level
    55
    Points: 31,985, Level: 55
    Level completed: 4%, Points required for next Level: 1,065
    Overall activity: 19.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    Are you trying to imply that there is no genetic continuity in the Sumer region since Sumerian times to now? They were a non-Semitic rare people's......what were they hg T,L,F? I personally doubt it; there must be genetic continuity in the region over the past 5,000-10,000 at the minimum.
    yet linguisitcally it seems there were more than a strata in Sumer - I'm almost sure it occurred more than a tribe move in this region with time, as says Maciamo - some modifications in Culture seem come from North at that time, and surely more recently just the opposite: moves of semitic tribes from South - the first Y-J1 were surely based in the Zagros region and surroundings, not far, and they colonized the present days Arabia and other semitic countries perhaps at the depends of some early Y-E1b population, before giving birth to specific semitic downstreams of Y-J1 - so a partial continuity at big scale but not in the details, I think - for the autosomals aspect I suppose Sumerians had more 'west-asian' than today compared to 'south-west asian'

  5. #80
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,121
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    No, members here stated J1 was NOT present among the Sumerians and certainly J2 wasn't either, in the case of J1 it is hard to believe as Iraqi marsh Arabs have some 85% J1 (southern Iraq region). But apparently this was not present here during the Sumerian era. I guess the main contenders are T and L; I doubt G and E3b were there.
    Last edited by adamo; 03-01-14 at 05:51.

  6. #81
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    69
    Posts
    4,134
    Points
    31,985
    Level
    55
    Points: 31,985, Level: 55
    Level completed: 4%, Points required for next Level: 1,065
    Overall activity: 19.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    No, members here stated J1 was NOT present among the Sumerians and certainly J2 wasn't either, in the case of J1 it is hard to believe as Iraqi marsh Arabs have some 85% J1 (southern Iraq region). But apparently this was not present here during the Sumerian era. I guess the main contenders are T and L; I doubt G and E3b were there.
    the number does not always the work even if it helps very often - I have no sound religion for now, just doing some tries to understand the today distribution - I never said Sumerians were ONLY Y-J people, but I think this Y-HG was already present among them, maybe come from close North. Y-T? Why not, maybe more in South - Y-L? very possible too (maybe more among the neighbours Elamites, and yet it is not sure) - I shall not fight against you because I need more data to go into the competition -

  7. #82
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,121
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    I also thought J1 was present among Sumerians but many here say otherwise. I doubt L was present in the region but T is more of a likely candidate.

  8. #83
    Regular Member Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,005
    Points
    29,010
    Level
    52
    Points: 29,010, Level: 52
    Level completed: 33%, Points required for next Level: 740
    Overall activity: 80.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a ..Osii pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    I also thought J1 was present among Sumerians but many here say otherwise. I doubt L was present in the region but T is more of a likely candidate.

    correct me if I am wrong, but did'nt Maciano state that J1 and T1 where herder/hunters, originating from the zargos mountains moving south ward?
    clearly L is more southern than T and E must have been in arabia at that time too.

    The scenario to me is that J1 and T1 moved south and replaced ( partly) L and E. J1 went basically on the red sea side and T1 went on the persian gulf side. They both went into africa and madagscar. .......my scenario is based on thousands of years

    If I had to name T1 as a tribe, its origin, it would be either Bactrian or Pathian. The elams seem more L to me .
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

  9. #84
    Elite member Achievements:
    VeteranThree FriendsRecommendation Second Class25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    User with most referrers

    Join Date
    14-11-10
    Posts
    2,504
    Points
    25,862
    Level
    49
    Points: 25,862, Level: 49
    Level completed: 32%, Points required for next Level: 688
    Overall activity: 13.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a1a1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV2a1 +G13708A

    Ethnic group
    Kurdish
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    I also thought J1 was present among Sumerians but many here say otherwise. I doubt L was present in the region but T is more of a likely candidate.
    If you actually red my comment correctly you would have seen no one dismissed J1* as Haplogroup present among Sumerians. But your explanation for your assumption about this Haplogroup among Sumerians was what I disagreed. You said "since Sumerians are Semites (what they aren't) they must had allot of J1*. But in reality it is much more likely allot of the J1* was given to Semites, through the Akkadians BY the Sumerians, who originated somewhere in North Mesopotamia/Zagros and moved into South Mesopotamia.

    I clearly wrote in my post I assume LT* (includes yDNA T and L), J* (includes J1 and J2), G* as well some R* (includes R1a, R1b and R2) among them.

    With my words I tried to say anything from the above Haplogroups are possible. Only on T* I was more sure.

  10. #85
    Elite member Achievements:
    VeteranThree FriendsRecommendation Second Class25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    User with most referrers

    Join Date
    14-11-10
    Posts
    2,504
    Points
    25,862
    Level
    49
    Points: 25,862, Level: 49
    Level completed: 32%, Points required for next Level: 688
    Overall activity: 13.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a1a1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV2a1 +G13708A

    Ethnic group
    Kurdish
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    correct me if I am wrong, but did'nt Maciano state that J1 and T1 where herder/hunters, originating from the zargos mountains moving south ward?
    clearly L is more southern than T and E must have been in arabia at that time too.

    The scenario to me is that J1 and T1 moved south and replaced ( partly) L and E. J1 went basically on the red sea side and T1 went on the persian gulf side. They both went into africa and madagscar. .......my scenario is based on thousands of years

    If I had to name T1 as a tribe, its origin, it would be either Bactrian or Pathian. The elams seem more L to me .

    L* which is the closest to T* likely had a Persian Gulf origin. It's highest diversity is also in and around Iran.

  11. #86
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,121
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    Sumerians were pre-Semites if I'm not mistaken. Wow, so L has highest diversity in Iran, what about T?

  12. #87
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    17-01-14
    Posts
    1
    Points
    32
    Level
    1
    Points: 32, Level: 1
    Level completed: 64%, Points required for next Level: 18
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: Azerbaijan



    Hello, my origin is from the xinaliq village, Azerbaijan. But i'm J1c3d, close to marsh arabs. So i'm originally from the Mesopotamia Region? But my village is 2350 m high above the sea level. It can be that people of xinaliq descended to the mesopotamia?

  13. #88
    Banned Achievements:
    250 Experience PointsOverdrive7 days registered

    Join Date
    16-01-14
    Posts
    150
    Points
    117
    Level
    1
    Points: 117, Level: 1
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 33
    Overall activity: 74.0%


    Country: Canada



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    There is a small pocket near the Caucasus, in people such as Dargins, Avars and Lezgins that have high J1 frequencies (50-75%) but this is an exception as most of the northern Middle East (Fertile Crescent) is low in the Semitic j1 marker and higher in the Mesopotamian J2 marker. About 15% of Azerbaijani males are positive for the J1 marker. About 10% of Iranians, Turks and slightly lower frequencies for Armenians, are positive for it too. When we approach Iraq (the south in particular), Syria, Saudi Arabia, the frequencies for J1 can get very high (50+% of males) your particular sub-type of J1 is J1c3d.

    some info on it: The expansion of Haplogroup J1c3d is closely tied to the expansion of the Semitic languages, they themselves both linked to the expansion of herder–hunters moving into the arid regions of the Arabian Peninsula.[1] Kitchen et al propose the divergence within Semitic languages occurred approximately 5750 years ago in the Levant[2], which is both consistent with J1c3d's age estimate and its parent clade's place of highest diversity.People of the Haplogroup J1c3 orginally possibly spoke a language similar to Alarodian derived languages. Semitic shows an interesting degree of relatedness with Nakho-Daghestani of Anatolia (including Turkey, Armenia, and Georgia) as Roy King has shown through his works[3], this language also could have hypothetically been involved in the formation of Afroasiatic as Haplogroup J1.
    Some of its clades have been found in non-negligible frequency amongst Copts, Bejas and Guanches all of whom are non-Semitic Afroasiatic speakers while retaining the fact that African branches of Afroasiatic contain Caucasian and Sumerian loanwards, thus making another case for the lineage's Near Eastern origin.
    Afroasiatic languages spread from the Levant into Africa between 7000 and 12,000 years ago, probably in more than one movement. Subsequent history has seen an enormous spread of Semitic languages, including Ethiopian Semitic and, of course, Arabic, on such a scale that the original phylogenetic geography of the Afroasiatic language family must have been considerably erased.[4]

  14. #89
    Banned Achievements:
    250 Experience PointsOverdrive7 days registered

    Join Date
    16-01-14
    Posts
    150
    Points
    117
    Level
    1
    Points: 117, Level: 1
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 33
    Overall activity: 74.0%


    Country: Canada



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    J1c3d is found in Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman; it has a very Arabian peninsular distribution origin and is also found in the Canaan region. it's father J1c3 probably originated in southern Iraq

  15. #90
    Elite member Achievements:
    VeteranThree FriendsRecommendation Second Class25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    User with most referrers

    Join Date
    14-11-10
    Posts
    2,504
    Points
    25,862
    Level
    49
    Points: 25,862, Level: 49
    Level completed: 32%, Points required for next Level: 688
    Overall activity: 13.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a1a1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV2a1 +G13708A

    Ethnic group
    Kurdish
    Country: Germany



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by John123 View Post
    There is a small pocket near the Caucasus, in people such as Dargins, Avars and Lezgins that have high J1 frequencies (50-75%) but this is an exception as most of the northern Middle East (Fertile Crescent) is low in the Semitic j1 marker and higher in the Mesopotamian J2 marker. About 15% of Azerbaijani males are positive for the J1 marker. About 10% of Iranians, Turks and slightly lower frequencies for Armenians, are positive for it too. When we approach Iraq (the south in particular), Syria, Saudi Arabia, the frequencies for J1 can get very high (50+% of males) your particular sub-type of J1 is J1c3d.
    J1* is not semitic not even Proto-Afroasiatic. The J1 you are meaning is J1c3d and this is the only relevant Semitic subgroup all other have more significance in non Semite people.

  16. #91
    Regular Member Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,005
    Points
    29,010
    Level
    52
    Points: 29,010, Level: 52
    Level completed: 33%, Points required for next Level: 740
    Overall activity: 80.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a ..Osii pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    L* which is the closest to T* likely had a Persian Gulf origin. It's highest diversity is also in and around Iran.
    I agree with your L statement and to follow up I regard T as north to northwest of L

  17. #92
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    17-08-12
    Posts
    85
    Points
    4,882
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,882, Level: 20
    Level completed: 58%, Points required for next Level: 168
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-Celtic
    Country: United States



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anatolian chevalier View Post
    do sümerians anything do with Anatolians?if they have j2 like Anatolians they must be Anatolian immigrant who live mesopotamia.
    J2 is believed to have originated somewhere in Mesopotamia, or maybe in the Levant, as far as I'm aware, not in Anatolia.
    The fact that it's common in Anatolia does not mean that it originated there. The Sumerian identity very likely developed in Mesopotamia itself, and in any case their dominant Y-haplogroups are unknown. While Anatolia has a very important place in history, not every single middle eastern culture originated in Anatolia. You're barking up the wrong tree.

  18. #93
    Elite member Achievements:
    VeteranThree FriendsRecommendation Second Class25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    User with most referrers

    Join Date
    14-11-10
    Posts
    2,504
    Points
    25,862
    Level
    49
    Points: 25,862, Level: 49
    Level completed: 32%, Points required for next Level: 688
    Overall activity: 13.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a1a1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV2a1 +G13708A

    Ethnic group
    Kurdish
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by J1c3d View Post
    Hello, my origin is from the xinaliq village, Azerbaijan. But i'm J1c3d, close to marsh arabs. So i'm originally from the Mesopotamia Region? But my village is 2350 m high above the sea level. It can be that people of xinaliq descended to the mesopotamia?

    If you are J1c3d your yDNA is very likely semite. Either Mountain Jew, Arab or even Assyrian.


    Quote Originally Posted by John123 View Post
    J1c3d is found in Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman; it has a very Arabian peninsular distribution origin and is also found in the Canaan region. it's father J1c3 probably originated in southern Iraq
    Exactly this. J1c3d is only found in high frequency among Arabs, Jews etc namely the Semites. J1c3 on the other hand is probably Mesopotamian.
    Last edited by Alan; 18-05-14 at 23:49.

  19. #94
    Elite member Achievements:
    VeteranThree FriendsRecommendation Second Class25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    User with most referrers

    Join Date
    14-11-10
    Posts
    2,504
    Points
    25,862
    Level
    49
    Points: 25,862, Level: 49
    Level completed: 32%, Points required for next Level: 688
    Overall activity: 13.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a1a1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV2a1 +G13708A

    Ethnic group
    Kurdish
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by skaheen15 View Post
    J2 is believed to have originated somewhere in Mesopotamia, or maybe in the Levant, as far as I'm aware, not in Anatolia.
    The fact that it's common in Anatolia does not mean that it originated there. The Sumerian identity very likely developed in Mesopotamia itself, and in any case their dominant Y-haplogroups are unknown. While Anatolia has a very important place in history, not every single middle eastern culture originated in Anatolia. You're barking up the wrong tree.
    Agreed, but it is unlikely to have originated in the Levant. With the recent testings and studies, an origin around the Zagros mountains appears very likely.

  20. #95
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    17-08-12
    Posts
    85
    Points
    4,882
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,882, Level: 20
    Level completed: 58%, Points required for next Level: 168
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-Celtic
    Country: United States



    "an origin around the Zagros mountains appears very likely.[/QUOTE]

    Fair enough, I hadn't heard that, in fact I'd like to see more on that if you could link me to a study or something.
    It did not originate in Anatolia, though.

  21. #96
    Elite member Achievements:
    VeteranThree FriendsRecommendation Second Class25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    User with most referrers

    Join Date
    14-11-10
    Posts
    2,504
    Points
    25,862
    Level
    49
    Points: 25,862, Level: 49
    Level completed: 32%, Points required for next Level: 688
    Overall activity: 13.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a1a1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV2a1 +G13708A

    Ethnic group
    Kurdish
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by skaheen15 View Post

    Fair enough, I hadn't heard that, in fact I'd like to see more on that if you could link me to a study or something.
    It did not originate in Anatolia, though.

    I remember to have red quite a few times the theory that it came from the Zagros mountains. According to new data this Haplogroup is absent in farmers, who likely originated in northwestern part of the fertile crescent (the Area between Levant, northern Mesopotamia and Anatolia), the parent or close cousin IJ* was found in Iran, additional the macro group of IJKLT is all connect to ANE/WHG ancestry, which once again makes it unlikely that J* evolved in the Levant which would have been more farmer like during that time.

    Another reason is that J* is quite diverse/frequent around the Zagros mountains.

  22. #97
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    17-08-12
    Posts
    85
    Points
    4,882
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,882, Level: 20
    Level completed: 58%, Points required for next Level: 168
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-Celtic
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    the parent or close cousin IJ* was found in Iran
    Now that's interesting.

  23. #98
    Elite member Achievements:
    VeteranThree FriendsRecommendation Second Class25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    User with most referrers

    Join Date
    14-11-10
    Posts
    2,504
    Points
    25,862
    Level
    49
    Points: 25,862, Level: 49
    Level completed: 32%, Points required for next Level: 688
    Overall activity: 13.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a1a1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV2a1 +G13708A

    Ethnic group
    Kurdish
    Country: Germany



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by skaheen15 View Post
    Now that's interesting.
    Yes, thats indeed interesting. The first ever "IJ*" to be found. Grugni et al. 2012 is the study.

  24. #99
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    17-08-12
    Posts
    85
    Points
    4,882
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,882, Level: 20
    Level completed: 58%, Points required for next Level: 168
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-Celtic
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    Yes, thats indeed interesting. The first ever "IJ*" to be found. Grugni et al. 2012 is the study.
    Thank you for that, I'm going to find that study and hope it's not behind a paywall. Fascinating.

  25. #100
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Ike's Avatar
    Join Date
    20-12-10
    Posts
    1,128
    Points
    4,720
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,720, Level: 20
    Level completed: 18%, Points required for next Level: 330
    Overall activity: 3.0%


    Country: Yugoslavia



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anatolian chevalier View Post
    about zagros mountain. Turkish archaeologist found tablet in Anatolia. The Assyrians always attack Anatolians and people of zagros. Assyrians enslave those people. the archaeologist say people in anatolia and zagros mountain spoke similar language almost same! :))
    You have to give more data. Which two people have spoken the same language? When? What language? Who claims that? What tablets were found? What do they say? Pictures? Etc...

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •