Y-DNA of Sumerians?

No, members here stated J1 was NOT present among the Sumerians and certainly J2 wasn't either, in the case of J1 it is hard to believe as Iraqi marsh Arabs have some 85% J1 (southern Iraq region). But apparently this was not present here during the Sumerian era. I guess the main contenders are T and L; I doubt G and E3b were there.

the number does not always the work even if it helps very often - I have no sound religion for now, just doing some tries to understand the today distribution - I never said Sumerians were ONLY Y-J people, but I think this Y-HG was already present among them, maybe come from close North. Y-T? Why not, maybe more in South - Y-L? very possible too (maybe more among the neighbours Elamites, and yet it is not sure) - I shall not fight against you because I need more data to go into the competition -
 
I also thought J1 was present among Sumerians but many here say otherwise. I doubt L was present in the region but T is more of a likely candidate.
 
I also thought J1 was present among Sumerians but many here say otherwise. I doubt L was present in the region but T is more of a likely candidate.


correct me if I am wrong, but did'nt Maciano state that J1 and T1 where herder/hunters, originating from the zargos mountains moving south ward?
clearly L is more southern than T and E must have been in arabia at that time too.

The scenario to me is that J1 and T1 moved south and replaced ( partly) L and E. J1 went basically on the red sea side and T1 went on the persian gulf side. They both went into africa and madagscar. .......my scenario is based on thousands of years

If I had to name T1 as a tribe, its origin, it would be either Bactrian or Pathian. The elams seem more L to me .
 
I also thought J1 was present among Sumerians but many here say otherwise. I doubt L was present in the region but T is more of a likely candidate.

If you actually red my comment correctly you would have seen no one dismissed J1* as Haplogroup present among Sumerians. But your explanation for your assumption about this Haplogroup among Sumerians was what I disagreed. You said "since Sumerians are Semites (what they aren't) they must had allot of J1*. But in reality it is much more likely allot of the J1* was given to Semites, through the Akkadians BY the Sumerians, who originated somewhere in North Mesopotamia/Zagros and moved into South Mesopotamia.

I clearly wrote in my post I assume LT* (includes yDNA T and L), J* (includes J1 and J2), G* as well some R* (includes R1a, R1b and R2) among them.

With my words I tried to say anything from the above Haplogroups are possible. Only on T* I was more sure.
 
correct me if I am wrong, but did'nt Maciano state that J1 and T1 where herder/hunters, originating from the zargos mountains moving south ward?
clearly L is more southern than T and E must have been in arabia at that time too.

The scenario to me is that J1 and T1 moved south and replaced ( partly) L and E. J1 went basically on the red sea side and T1 went on the persian gulf side. They both went into africa and madagscar. .......my scenario is based on thousands of years

If I had to name T1 as a tribe, its origin, it would be either Bactrian or Pathian. The elams seem more L to me .


L* which is the closest to T* likely had a Persian Gulf origin. It's highest diversity is also in and around Iran.
 
Sumerians were pre-Semites if I'm not mistaken. Wow, so L has highest diversity in Iran, what about T?
 
Hello, my origin is from the xinaliq village, Azerbaijan. But i'm J1c3d, close to marsh arabs. So i'm originally from the Mesopotamia Region? But my village is 2350 m high above the sea level. It can be that people of xinaliq descended to the mesopotamia?
 
There is a small pocket near the Caucasus, in people such as Dargins, Avars and Lezgins that have high J1 frequencies (50-75%) but this is an exception as most of the northern Middle East (Fertile Crescent) is low in the Semitic j1 marker and higher in the Mesopotamian J2 marker. About 15% of Azerbaijani males are positive for the J1 marker. About 10% of Iranians, Turks and slightly lower frequencies for Armenians, are positive for it too. When we approach Iraq (the south in particular), Syria, Saudi Arabia, the frequencies for J1 can get very high (50+% of males) your particular sub-type of J1 is J1c3d.

some info on it: The expansion of Haplogroup J1c3d is closely tied to the expansion of the Semitic languages, they themselves both linked to the expansion of herder–hunters moving into the arid regions of the Arabian Peninsula.[1] Kitchen et al propose the divergence within Semitic languages occurred approximately 5750 years ago in the Levant[2], which is both consistent with J1c3d's age estimate and its parent clade's place of highest diversity.People of the Haplogroup J1c3 orginally possibly spoke a language similar to Alarodian derived languages. Semitic shows an interesting degree of relatedness with Nakho-Daghestani of Anatolia (including Turkey, Armenia, and Georgia) as Roy King has shown through his works[3], this language also could have hypothetically been involved in the formation of Afroasiatic as Haplogroup J1.
Some of its clades have been found in non-negligible frequency amongst Copts, Bejas and Guanches all of whom are non-Semitic Afroasiatic speakers while retaining the fact that African branches of Afroasiatic contain Caucasian and Sumerian loanwards, thus making another case for the lineage's Near Eastern origin.
Afroasiatic languages spread from the Levant into Africa between 7000 and 12,000 years ago, probably in more than one movement. Subsequent history has seen an enormous spread of Semitic languages, including Ethiopian Semitic and, of course, Arabic, on such a scale that the original phylogenetic geography of the Afroasiatic language family must have been considerably erased.[4]
 
J1c3d is found in Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman; it has a very Arabian peninsular distribution origin and is also found in the Canaan region. it's father J1c3 probably originated in southern Iraq
 
There is a small pocket near the Caucasus, in people such as Dargins, Avars and Lezgins that have high J1 frequencies (50-75%) but this is an exception as most of the northern Middle East (Fertile Crescent) is low in the Semitic j1 marker and higher in the Mesopotamian J2 marker. About 15% of Azerbaijani males are positive for the J1 marker. About 10% of Iranians, Turks and slightly lower frequencies for Armenians, are positive for it too. When we approach Iraq (the south in particular), Syria, Saudi Arabia, the frequencies for J1 can get very high (50+% of males) your particular sub-type of J1 is J1c3d.

J1* is not semitic not even Proto-Afroasiatic. The J1 you are meaning is J1c3d and this is the only relevant Semitic subgroup all other have more significance in non Semite people.
 
L* which is the closest to T* likely had a Persian Gulf origin. It's highest diversity is also in and around Iran.

I agree with your L statement and to follow up I regard T as north to northwest of L
 
do sümerians anything do with Anatolians?if they have j2 like Anatolians they must be Anatolian immigrant who live mesopotamia.

J2 is believed to have originated somewhere in Mesopotamia, or maybe in the Levant, as far as I'm aware, not in Anatolia.
The fact that it's common in Anatolia does not mean that it originated there. The Sumerian identity very likely developed in Mesopotamia itself, and in any case their dominant Y-haplogroups are unknown. While Anatolia has a very important place in history, not every single middle eastern culture originated in Anatolia. You're barking up the wrong tree.
 
Hello, my origin is from the xinaliq village, Azerbaijan. But i'm J1c3d, close to marsh arabs. So i'm originally from the Mesopotamia Region? But my village is 2350 m high above the sea level. It can be that people of xinaliq descended to the mesopotamia?


If you are J1c3d your yDNA is very likely semite. Either Mountain Jew, Arab or even Assyrian.


J1c3d is found in Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman; it has a very Arabian peninsular distribution origin and is also found in the Canaan region. it's father J1c3 probably originated in southern Iraq
Exactly this. J1c3d is only found in high frequency among Arabs, Jews etc namely the Semites. J1c3 on the other hand is probably Mesopotamian.
 
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J2 is believed to have originated somewhere in Mesopotamia, or maybe in the Levant, as far as I'm aware, not in Anatolia.
The fact that it's common in Anatolia does not mean that it originated there. The Sumerian identity very likely developed in Mesopotamia itself, and in any case their dominant Y-haplogroups are unknown. While Anatolia has a very important place in history, not every single middle eastern culture originated in Anatolia. You're barking up the wrong tree.

Agreed, but it is unlikely to have originated in the Levant. With the recent testings and studies, an origin around the Zagros mountains appears very likely.
 
"an origin around the Zagros mountains appears very likely.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough, I hadn't heard that, in fact I'd like to see more on that if you could link me to a study or something.
It did not originate in Anatolia, though.
 
Fair enough, I hadn't heard that, in fact I'd like to see more on that if you could link me to a study or something.
It did not originate in Anatolia, though.


I remember to have red quite a few times the theory that it came from the Zagros mountains. According to new data this Haplogroup is absent in farmers, who likely originated in northwestern part of the fertile crescent (the Area between Levant, northern Mesopotamia and Anatolia), the parent or close cousin IJ* was found in Iran, additional the macro group of IJKLT is all connect to ANE/WHG ancestry, which once again makes it unlikely that J* evolved in the Levant which would have been more farmer like during that time.

Another reason is that J* is quite diverse/frequent around the Zagros mountains.
 
Yes, thats indeed interesting. The first ever "IJ*" to be found. Grugni et al. 2012 is the study.

Thank you for that, I'm going to find that study and hope it's not behind a paywall. Fascinating.
 
about zagros mountain. Turkish archaeologist found tablet in Anatolia. The Assyrians always attack Anatolians and people of zagros. Assyrians enslave those people. the archaeologist say people in anatolia and zagros mountain spoke similar language almost same! :))

You have to give more data. Which two people have spoken the same language? When? What language? Who claims that? What tablets were found? What do they say? Pictures? Etc...
 

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