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Thread: Are Uralic language speakers more closely related to Altaic speakers than Europeans?

  1. #26
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    Originally Posted by BakodiP
    Pure? Are you serious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Idun View Post
    Relatively speaking, yes I am.
    Relatively pure? It's as oxymoronic as saying the glass is "half full". As half full is not full, the relatively pure is not pure, is it?
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idun View Post
    It is a beautiful picture
    Yes;

    Quote Originally Posted by Idun View Post
    shame you dont understand it, Swedes should be proud they are that breaking out in it.
    Those are just a few outlier (Swedish) samples that are next to a few outlier (Finnish) samples; Maybe some exiled Finns in Sweden;
    Bulk of the Swedish samples is very close (even overlaps) with North German Samples; Bulk of the Finnish samples is isolated and closest to Bulk of Sami/Lapps;

    You do understand that each symbol = a sample?

    Quote Originally Posted by Idun View Post
    You should read about founder effect with Kuusamo and know that Helsinki is full of Savonians.
    Does that mean that Savonians are not pure Finns i.e. not proper Vikings? Makes me sad;

    Quote Originally Posted by Idun View Post
    Try the same chart with Western Finland, the area where most still live and has the oldest settlements, throw in some Saarenmaa, Livonia, Gotland, Uppland, Trondelag for fun.
    How much fun will we be having?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Relatively pure? It's as oxymoronic as saying the glass is "half full". As half full is not full, the relatively pure is not pure, is it?
    It is better than an empty and dirty glass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody1 View Post
    Finns arent close to Scandinavians in terms of Genetics;
    In autosomal-Admixture the Finns are completely isolated and Y-DNA Hg Finns are mostly N-M231 like the Mongoloids of Yakuts and Nenets further east;
    haplo N is Scandinavian?

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    Vikings were savage people,not really Germanics,as behavior,only as language.
    Compare Vikings to Goths,which were East Germanic speakers - there are no terms of comparison,Goths impressed Roman Empire inhabitants,with their civilized behavior when they conquered Rome.
    Or compare Franks to Vikings,Franks were very civilized people.
    Vikings were actually Scandinavian,not Germanic,uncivilized persons who were living from fishing , hunting and preying on other people.
    Their interpretation (of Scandos) of Odinism was primitive,compare East Germanic and West Germanic speakers,who saw Christianity as something linked to Odinism,while Scandos did not saw such a thing.
    The shamanic things of Vikings,like getting into berserker mode,was something taken for sure from Fino-ugrian speakers,not something related to Germanic religion.
    Sure Fino-Ugrians are closed to Europeans,but were primitive and now they got very civilized.

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    Those are just a few outlier (Swedish) samples that are next to a few outlier (Finnish) samples; Maybe some exiled Finns in Sweden;
    Bulk of the Swedish samples is very close (even overlaps) with North German Samples; Bulk of the Finnish samples is isolated and closest to Bulk of Sami/Lapps;

    You do understand that each symbol = a sample?

    Swedes are more mixed to Central Europe, they import even rarer genes these days.
    You really dont know how to read the Sami results.




    Does that mean that Savonians are not pure Finns i.e. not proper Vikings? Makes me sad;
    Savonians showcase a massive founder effect and can represent Finland only as a curiosity when talking about genetics.
    Savonians could not have been Vikings as they did not exist in the Viking Age, Western Finns did and are basically the same people still.



    How much fun will we be having?
    Might get hilarious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by albanopolis View Post
    haplo N is Scandinavian?
    haplo N is Scandinavian?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody1 View Post
    haplo N is Scandinavian?
    Are you saying Rurik was a Finn? Make up your mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idun View Post
    You really dont know how to read the Sami results.
    Exactly;
    I have been waiting since 2009 for a genius of your format to explain it to me;

    Quote Originally Posted by Idun View Post
    Savonians showcase a massive founder effect and can represent Finland only as a curiosity when talking about genetics.
    Savonians could not have been Vikings as they did not exist in the Viking Age, Western Finns did and are basically the same people still.
    Ok got it;
    West Finns = Pure Vikings;
    Savonians = founder Effect and Finnish curiosity;

    So simple and not the least bit bizarre;

    Quote Originally Posted by Idun View Post
    Might get hilarious.
    I am laughing already;

    PS: did you notice all the Baltic volks in the beautiful picture (i.e. Genetic chart)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idun View Post
    Are you saying Rurik was a Finn? Make up your mind.
    Was Rurik even tested?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    Vikings were savage people,not really Germanics,as behavior,only as language.
    Compare Vikings to Goths,which were East Germanic speakers - there are no terms of comparison,Goths impressed Roman Empire inhabitants,with their civilized behavior when they conquered Rome.
    Or compare Franks to Vikings,Franks were very civilized people.
    Vikings were actually Scandinavian,not Germanic,uncivilized persons who were living from fishing , hunting and preying on other people.
    Their interpretation (of Scandos) of Odinism was primitive,compare East Germanic and West Germanic speakers,who saw Christianity as something linked to Odinism,while Scandos did not saw such a thing.
    The shamanic things of Vikings,like getting into berserker mode,was something taken for sure from Fino-ugrian speakers,not something related to Germanic religion.
    Sure Fino-Ugrians are closed to Europeans,but were primitive and now they got very civilized.
    Propaganda spread by the degenerated Franks and their Popes.

    You got the shamanism right , I will give you that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idun View Post
    It is better than an empty and dirty glass.
    Who are the nations of "dirty glass" profile, you're implying?

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    I have been waiting since 2009 for a genius of your format to explain it to me
    Now you can get to work and study the matter, I will always accept an apology.


    Ok got it;
    West Finns = Pure Vikings;
    Savonians = founder Effect and Finnish curiosity;

    So simple and not the least bit bizarre;
    There where no tribe or clan called Vikings, there where Nordic pagan tribes and clans that had a distinct culture.


    I am laughing already;

    PS: did you notice all the Baltic volks in the beautiful picture (i.e. Genetic chart)?
    Yep, they are cousins to us also, Curonians especially, brave sobs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody1 View Post
    Was Rurik even tested?
    They are looking for him but the Nenets all look alike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Who are the nations of "dirty glass" profile, you're implying?
    The ones that see the glass half empty, that is not the attitude you go hunting or to war.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idun View Post
    Now you can get to work and study the matter, I will always accept an apology.
    I apologies;

    Quote Originally Posted by Idun View Post
    There where no tribe or clan called Vikings
    No kidding;

    Quote Originally Posted by Idun View Post
    there where Nordic pagan tribes and clans that had a distinct culture.
    Not so distinct from other Germanic people;

    Quote Originally Posted by Idun View Post
    Yep, they are cousins to us also, Curonians especially, brave sobs.
    Beautiful picture suggests otherwise;
    Maybe distant cousins;

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    I apologies;
    I will take it when you mean it.


    No kidding;
    Lifestyle of the North.

    Not so distinct from other Germanic people
    Except they did not go to church on sunday and give their money away, like two peas in pot.

    Beautiful picture suggests otherwise;
    Maybe distant cousins.
    Also related to the Nenets those Balts.

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    What about Yakuts who have about 75% N on paternal lines,but are Turkic speakers?
    Is possible that they are assimilated Uralic people from Siberia?
    I have found some of their folk tales here:
    http://www.philology.nsc.ru/departme...lor_en/t09.php
    Something more about Yakuts folk customs:
    http://www.yakutiatoday.com/region/c...ar_yakut.shtml

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    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    What about Yakuts who have about 75% N on paternal lines,but are Turkic speakers?
    Is possible that they are assimilated Uralic people from Siberia?
    I have found some of their folk tales here:
    http://www.philology.nsc.ru/departme...lor_en/t09.php
    Something more about Yakuts folk customs:
    http://www.yakutiatoday.com/region/c...ar_yakut.shtml
    Yes, they are our Urheimat population, we are half Turk, half Mongol.



    Light_hair_coloration_map.png

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    I wish the Saami their own country.

    Last time I checked the Finns were very Caucasian/European and not much of Siberian (~5-6% similar to Russians).


    Turkic language family is relatively young. The more I do my research about it, the more it appears to me like a hybrid of Iranic and Mongolian. The Iranic substrata in Turkic is so strong that it goes even all the way into the grammar and is not exclusive to loanwords alone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idun View Post
    I will take it when you mean it.
    Yes;

    Quote Originally Posted by Idun View Post
    Lifestyle of the North.
    Yes;

    Quote Originally Posted by Idun View Post
    Except they did not go to church on sunday and give their money away, like two peas in pot.
    Yes;

    Quote Originally Posted by Idun View Post
    Also related to the Nenets those Balts.
    No;

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody1 View Post



    No;
    So the N haplo is mongoloid only in Finns?

    OK, Herr Übermenschpidgmin PGmc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idun View Post
    OK, Herr Übermenschpidgmin PGmc.
    I never said that its Mongoloid;
    I said that Finns are Isolated (not close to Scandinavians) and N-M231 is also heavy in Mongoloids further East like Yakuts and your all time favorites the Nenets; I cant spot a mistake;

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody1 View Post
    I never said that its Mongoloid;
    I said that Finns are Isolated (not close to Scandinavians) and N-M231 is also heavy in Mongoloids further East like Yakuts and your all time favorites the Nenets; I cant spot a mistake;
    Your post did give the impression that Finns are not European and Nordic and closer to Nenets, that was a bad wording or intentional.

    Isolation is from lack of mixing since arrival with the Central Euro populations, others in the neighbourhood have done it more since the Iron Age.

    If you are for real you will take my advice and check the regions/populations I listed.

    The Sami skew your results if you dont understand the nature of the contact with Baltic Finns, they are the dominating population taking tribute and some of the tax collectors and fur traders mixing with paleo natives.

    They where first to arrive, then came the clans and moved along the coasts and river valleys in the West of the country, later Karelians pushed from the East doing the same thing.

    They Sami are giving back echoes and making you believe they are closer than you think to the Western Finns aka Estonians, Goths etc.
    .
    Part of the Siberian is not from Sami, it is original europid from the steppe where they rode taking tribute from the Nenets and Yakuts, no sable, give beaver.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Idun View Post
    Your post did give the impression that Finns are not European and Nordic and closer to Nenets, that was a bad wording or intentional.
    Than you got the wrong impression;
    The Finns are most def. European and mass-majority/rule (Anthropology) Nordo-Baltic;
    Are they like the Scandinavians (Germanic) - No there is a diff. in Culture (language) and Genetics;
    Nothing to do with Good or Bad;

    Quote Originally Posted by Idun View Post
    Isolation is from lack of mixing since arrival with the Central Euro populations, others in the neighbourhood have done it more since the Iron Age.
    Thats exactly what Isolation is;
    I have said that 100s times; Archaic, Remote, Isolated all go hand in hand thats why Sardinians (the other isolated Europeans) are very close to Neolithic corpses and Finns/Estonians to Hunter-gather corpses; Isolated is not anything bad; In fact an impressive continuity;

    Quote Originally Posted by Idun View Post
    If you are for real you will take my advice and check the regions/populations I listed.
    Thats what i said 100s times as well;
    Europe must be looked at in Regions (Historic Regions) and not national (modern-day) boundaries;
    Both Autosomal-Admixture and mt&Y Hg's; many diff. feature from region to region; just look at the Alps; every 100 people village is diff. than the next 100 people village - but thats the extreme isolation (and incest);

    Quote Originally Posted by Idun View Post
    They Sami are giving back echoes and making you believe they are closer than you think to the Western Finns aka Estonians, Goths etc.
    The Lapps are an isolated case of their own and when exactly did the Lapps come to Fennoscandia area?
    Lappanoid/Brachycephalic is very common in Europe;
    The Brachycephalic Ancient Ligurians were examined (Dr. Virchow) to have exclusive similar features to the Lapps and they inhabited the Alpine areas;
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Idun View Post
    Part of the Siberian is not from Sami, it is original europid from the steppe where they rode taking tribute from the Nenets and Yakuts, no sable, give beaver.
    I dont think that Fur-traders are that important compared to Hunter-gatherers in that region;
    A much broader realm of which maybe the Proto-Yakuts and Proto-Nenets were equally a part of and later changed course;

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