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Thread: Are the Northern European countries much more clever than the ones in the South?

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    Are the Northern European countries much more clever than the ones in the South?

    When comparing the North ; Germany, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland.... with South ; Portugal, Spain, Greece, Croatia, Albania, Bulgaria.... the one can notice that the North is working much more than the South. Working hours can be lesser in some countries maybe but their "efficiency" is very high.

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    It's a very subjective matter.. what does "more clever" means? Are you implying they are more intelligent? There are several kinds of intelligence. They have different policies also.

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    by clever actually i mean working hard or loving to work hard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by intorg View Post
    by clever actually i mean working hard or loving to work hard.
    I don't think that word means what you think it means. My dictionary defines "clever" as having a quick mind or being skillful or expert at doing some particular thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    I don't think that word means what you think it means. My dictionary defines "clever" as having a quick mind or being skillful or expert at doing some particular thing.
    I agree. It seems that intorg is misconstruing the concept of work ethic with intelligence. Cultural work ethic varies from region to region, country to country, but intelligence level is a very individual thing. Possession of high level intelligence does not translate to higher level work ethic. With respect, the question posed does not make sense.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    We already had a fiery discussion about this here:
    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...r-genetic-pool
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    The question makes sense and the answer is that they really work harder and are more cleverer.
    Biggest enemy to the work ethic in school and work is the american style pure individualism and hedonistic lifestyle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idun View Post
    The question makes sense and the answer is that they really work harder and are more cleverer.
    Biggest enemy to the work ethic in school and work is the american style pure individualism and hedonistic lifestyle.
    So what you're actually saying is that certain groups aren't cleverer than others, they just have different cultures. IMO, any attempt to equate genetics and intelligence is based on ignoring just how very influential cultural values are and how much they can differ in various parts of the world. Of course, climate plays a part in creating a culture, so it's complicated.

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    I don't think they are so much cleverer. In my humble opinion north europeans (and in the past also germany, but not any more ) are very confiding to each-other, the community and finally the whole state. Scandinavians are trustworthy and they do have trust. This is the reason why like nowhere else the majority of the population is in harmony with governmental institutions (I heard of recent problems in sweden though). The state is more considered like a father or partner, in contrast to greeks (and interestingly also partly US-americans), who are very sceptical of government and foreign clans. The trust makes scandinavians integer and less corrupt. Low corruption is the key to success imho.

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    You have to take into consideration the different values of Euro in North Europe compared to South Europe.
    Since I think that opinion,according to which people from North Europe are more productive than those from South Europe,is based on how much money those from North are making compared to those from South.
    As for being smarter or not,Italians have a very high medium IQ,so I do not think it has to do with North or South,here.

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    They are different, I think. Are they smarter? Its always a posssibility, but more time is needed. Romans would have said the same 2000 yrs ago, so do Greeks. If we admit that northerns are smarter so we have to admit that jews are smarter than anyone above. North has a lot bigger population too. They are about 300 mil, Italy excluded. Southerns not even 40 mil, spain, portugal excluded. So of course more ideas will come when there are more people.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    they're not more clever, they're just luckier. I would like to see Sweden go through 500 years of Turkish occupation and then 50 years of Totalitarianism and see how developed and positive-thinking it would come out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kamani View Post
    they're not more clever, they're just luckier. I would like to see Sweden go through 500 years of Turkish occupation and then 50 years of Totalitarianism and see how developed and positive-thinking it would come out.
    I agree. If a state, government or society was used to be under long-lasting foreign control, the population is used to be sceptical of it and prefers to run sub-structures.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kamani View Post
    they're not more clever, they're just luckier. I would like to see Sweden go through 500 years of Turkish occupation and then 50 years of Totalitarianism and see how developed and positive-thinking it would come out.
    Thats exactly the point;
    One just has to compare West Germany and East Germany;
    Are the East Germans any dumber (by nature) than the West Germans; Of course not;
    But 23 years ago East Germany was a toilet and West Germany was booming - all just fate of History;

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody1 View Post
    Thats exactly the point;
    One just has to compare West Germany and East Germany;
    Are the East Germans any dumber (by nature) than the West Germans; Of course not;
    But 23 years ago East Germany was a toilet and West Germany was booming - all just fate of History;
    Generally speaking I agree, although one might argue, that DDR was one of best run communist country, especially when compared to Romania, Albania, not mentioning Cuba.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Generally speaking I agree, although one might argue, that DDR was one of best run communist country, especially when compared to Romania, Albania, not mentioning Cuba.
    Yes, it is true that DDR was the most advanced country in the socialist camp. However, without taking anything away from the Germans 'skill, it must be said here that the Communists' objective was to make the DDR a showcase country of the socialist camp in the confrontation of capitalism represented by West Germany. Then, the three countries mentioned here are not the typical countries of the socialist camp. Albania has come out and if I'm not wrong Romania also followed an independent policy from the rest of the communist countries. Cuba was far away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Generally speaking I agree, although one might argue, that DDR was one of best run communist country, especially when compared to Romania, Albania, not mentioning Cuba.

    personally I think it was Yugoslavia,
    I am certain about and it was indeed that before the 1974 inner agreements,
    after 1974 and especially after the oil crisis of 1978 start decline but still was ahead of all communistic countries till around 1985-7


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    Southern Euros have a more laid back attitude regarding life. They are warmer people and enjoy life more. Northerns are the opposite: colder, work more and enjoy less their lives.Northern Europe is more advanced and have better work ethic, but that doesn' mean they are genetically superior. Southern Europe was more advanced when Northerns were living in caves.

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    I think north Europeans have to work harder and become cleverer because of the cold climate just to survive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lee1962 View Post
    I think north Europeans have to work harder and become cleverer because of the cold climate just to survive.
    I think their work ethics relates mostly to I haplogroup and I also believe due to climate......


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    Quote Originally Posted by blevins13 View Post
    I think their work ethics relates mostly to I haplogroup and I also believe due to climate......


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    I believe that DNA transfers a lot of info also subconsciously shaping culture and behavior. Nordic countries have a different mind set due to their formation process recorded in their DNA.


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    Quote Originally Posted by lee1962 View Post
    I think north Europeans have to work harder and become cleverer because of the cold climate just to survive.
    Ancient Arabians had a harsh life too, the desert, the thirst, the heat, the constant look for pasture, daily tribal warfare and raids, to plan to live through all of that according to you would result in a master race, I couldn't find one.

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    I'm afraid history disproves that. Farming and animal husbandry, metallurgy as a whole, certainly bronze metallurgy, the first great cities and civilizations, writing, the Greek and Roman civilizations, and the beginning of the Renaissance, have absolutely nothing to do with Northern Europe. That's a relatively recent phenomenon.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I'm afraid history disproves that. Farming and animal husbandry, metallurgy as a whole, certainly bronze metallurgy, the first great cities and civilizations, writing, the Greek and Roman civilizations, and the beginning of the Renaissance, have absolutely nothing to do with Northern Europe. That's a relatively recent phenomenon.
    Well yes but I'm skeptical that any of these had much to do with intelligence, maybe just a consequence of higher population.

    Scandinavian countries are doing very well for themselves, the whole of Europe really, and that at least should be appreciated and acknowledged.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IronSide View Post
    Well yes but I'm skeptical that any of these had much to do with intelligence, maybe just a consequence of higher population.

    Scandinavian countries are doing very well for themselves, the whole of Europe really, and that at least should be appreciated and acknowledged.
    Never said it shouldn't, but that wasn't the comment.

    Large population size was important, as it would lead to a desire to increase the availability of food. More highly concentrated populations also lead to more exchange of ideas. Another important factor was the incredibly large variety of food sources in the Near East, from different types of grains to different wild, but manageable animals and a good climate depending on the period. This actually started the cycle, by leading to large population sizes even before the actual "domestication" of plants and animals.

    However, without a relatively high level of intelligence you don't have a lot of abstract thought, nor do you have a very high level of problem solving. That applies not only to the ancient Near East but to China and places like ancient Peru or Mexico as well.

    The same thing would apply to England during the Industrial Revolution. You had large populations supported by a strong agricultural and trade based economy, many waterways, and on and on. They were also blessed by large deposits of iron and coal. They had the wit to take advantage of those things. However, the real flowering of the British Empire was because they conquered other countries, or at least dominated them, and got their resources for a pittance, so a lot of things come into play with how prosperous a country becomes. You have to have resources, but also the wit to use them.

    Germany is another good example. The idea of "Lebensraum", or space for living, was part of the German national imperative since before the first World War and was even more important to the Nazis. That's why they planned to exterminate the Poles and Russians once they got through with the Jews and the Gypsies.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum

    Is it a coincidence that Germany became a power house economically under Hitler? He had some good ideas, often cribbed from Mussolini, but the big spike came through conquering so much of Europe, especially Eastern Europe. One of the prime motivations given for the take over was to get access to all that nice, flat farmland.

    In an industrial and even post industrial age raw materials are extremely important. Not as kosher anymore to go take them by force from other areas, or to take their food either. So, in the last hundred two hundred or so years, having your own natural resources like coal, iron, natural gas, lots of hydroelectric power is very important, as well as lots of arable farm land, and having easy access to the main water trade routes, although the last is less important with the onset of cargo planes.

    If you go to some source like the UN you'll see that a country like Italy, for example, doesn't have, and hasn't had since before the Roman Empire enough arable land to support its population, and has virtually no natural resources to speak of any longer. This means that everything it produces is produced with raw materials it has purchased abroad, and is processed using energy also purchased from abroad. Obviously, that's extremely expensive. The only way it has survived economically is by "added value" through creativity, design etc. producing products which bring a higher price. I don't know how much longer that can continue given the manufacturing might and outright copyright infringement of China and other East Asian countries.

    I could also make an argument that Italy never fully recovered from the movement of trade away from the Near East and to the Americas and to the disastrous French invasion and other events of the late Renaissance, but that's for another thread.

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