Guess the Y-haplogroup(s) of Mesolithic Iberians (Braña 1 & 2)

[nordicwarrior]

How are the R1a/R1b folks going to claim the introduction of blue eyes now? Maybe the R1b elite owned C members (and their mates) as slaves and these forced laborers somehow escaped from the Russian Steppes and made it to Europe...

 

[nordicwarrior]

In all seriousness, this gives a tremendous boost to Solutreans Theory.

 

[JS Bach]

So it turned out to be ydna C. Very interesting. I guess population replacement may have been more brutal than we'd like to think.

In my posts on the Solutrean thread I was referring to them carrying mtdna C, rather than ydna C.

But there are many things about the ancient populating of the Americas that I find very puzzling, especially regarding South America. For instance, the sites at Monte Verde and Toca da Tira Peia seem to maybe even pre-date the Solutreans, and the high frequencies of Denisovan alleles in South America and an ancient skull showing similarites to Australoids are a mystery too. Maybe some ancient relatives of the Melanesians got there before the Solutreans, but how would they have gotten there?

 

[John123]

Exactly...I'm predicting those hg I men got in there and "bang,bang,bang,bang,bing-bong,bing-bong-bing-bong!" : ) ,vthe gene pool took a little switchey-dee-switch!

 

[LeBrok]

How are the R1a/R1b folks going to claim the introduction of blue eyes now? Maybe the R1b elite owned C members (and their mates) as slaves and these forced laborers somehow escaped from the Russian Steppes and made it to Europe...

Can you please quote these R folks that were convinced that blue eyes originated with hg R (from Eupedia website)? Otherwise this R versus I war is your doing only, which I'm convinced of. Pretty much R conspiracy against I. Sounds familiar?

 

[LeBrok]

In all seriousness, this gives a tremendous boost to Solutreans Theory.

What do you mean? Do we have blue eye American Indians of haplogroup C-V20?
And if C is 70kya, tell me how many times these people could have went to america on foot the long way during this time?

 

[LeBrok]

Exactly...I'm predicting those hg I men got in there and "bang,bang,bang,bang,bing-bong,bing-bong-bing-bong!" : ) ,vthe gene pool took a little switchey-dee-switch!

I'm so glad you're grasping genetics finally.

 

[nordicwarrior]

What do you mean? Do we have blue eye American Indians of haplogroup C-V20?
And if C is 70kya, tell me how many times these people could have went to america on foot the long way during this time?

That's what the meta-myth says...

But to your point-- if the maternal population all had brown eyes (really the entire autosomal of North America at the time would have had brown eyes) and Solutreans travellers had a much, much smaller representation... I would be shocked if ANY blue eyed Natives made it four hundred years forward, not to mention 20,000 years.

Remember the legend says the Native Americans (as we know them now) killed the giants (who were already in the Americas) and then took their women...

And by the way, if hg. C was 70,000 years old, why would this disqualify them from Soluteans? I'm confused by your logic...

 

[Aberdeen]

That's what the meta-myth says...

But to your point-- if the maternal population all had brown eyes (really the entire autosomal of North America at the time would have had brown eyes) and Solutreans travellers had a much, much smaller representation... I would be shocked if ANY blue eyed Natives made it four hundred years forward, not to mention 20,000 years.

Remember the legend says the Native Americans (as we know them now) killed the giants (who were already in the Americas) and then took their women...

And by the way, if hg. C was 70,000 years old, why would this disqualify them from Soluteans? I'm confused by your logic...

I'm no expert in these things, but C-V20 isn't found among Native Americans, AFAIK. C is a really old haplotype that seems to have spread from some spot in Asia and it's rare in Europe, but C-V20 is specifically European, according to the experts. I read that on Wikipedia, so it must be true.

 

[nordicwarrior]

I'm no expert in these things, but C-V20 isn't found among Native Americans, AFAIK. C is a really old haplotype that seems to have spread from some spot in Asia and it's rare in Europe, but C-V20 is specifically European, according to the experts. I read that on Wikipedia, so it must be true.

In that case I stand corrected. I thought C-V20 was in the Americas. I must admit I'm no expert in hg. C either-- I need to study some more.

 

[nordicwarrior]

Can you please quote these R folks that were convinced that blue eyes originated with hg R (from Eupedia website)? Otherwise this R versus I war is your doing only, which I'm convinced of. Pretty much R conspiracy against I. Sounds familiar?

Please check your in-box.

 

[LeBrok]

Remember the legend says the Native Americans (as we know them now) killed the giants (who were already in the Americas) and then took their women...

As I said before it might have applied to Vikings settling the east coast 1,000 years ago. Romans were fighting giants in Germania, you can read about this in Roman historians works.

And by the way, if hg. C was 70,000 years old, why would this disqualify them from Soluteans? I'm confused by your logic...

Occam's razor. For ancient people it was much easier to walk on ground that go through oceans on big boats which they didn't have. Even Vikings, when they settled there, didn't last too long in America or in Greenland did they. The environment was too strange, and land was already occupied, and not always by friendly people.

 

[CLF]

I think the right nomenclature (Y-haplogroup DNA tree, Version: 8.85, Date: 9 December 2013) is C6; it is very rare and according to my info so far only described in 18 European individuals (some yet unpublished), about one third from Southern Europe, another third from Central Europe and the rest from British islands. Quite widespread.

 

[Sile]

I think the right nomenclature (Y-haplogroup DNA tree, Version: 8.85, Date: 9 December 2013) is C6; it is very rare and according to my info so far only described in 18 European individuals (some yet unpublished), about one third from Southern Europe, another third from Central Europe and the rest from British islands. Quite widespread.

bravo

un goto di vin per ti

 

[Knovas]

Very surprising information: C6 (C-V20)!!!!!

Hope to see more details soon.

 

[Ricardo]

Any Mesolithic individual would had a total "make-or-break" situation in terms of descendancy. We would need the full Y-chromosome sequencing of all samples, if that's true :wary2:

 

[EastAnglian]

Can you please quote these R folks that were convinced that blue eyes originated with hg R (from Eupedia website)? Otherwise this R versus I war is your doing only, which I'm convinced of. Pretty much R conspiracy against I. Sounds familiar?

Hap I and R do battle, sounds very familiar!

 

[Goga]

Thank you very much this is fascinating stuff. Can we say that the aboriginal Europeans were like the ancestors of the modern day East Eurasians? With N (in North) and C as paternal haplogroups?

 

[Angela]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Loschbour(y dna I2) and La Brana (y dna C?) are both hyper-dolichocephalic with rather small crania and very prominent eye-brow ridges. They don't resemble the ancient hunter-gatherer remains that I've seem labeled as being "Cro-Magnon".

I suppose what I'm asking is if these sequenced samples are from an older or later migration into Europe than that of the "Cro-Magnon" people (if that term is even used any longer)?

Also, given that La Brana is yDNA C, it will be interesting to see if autosomally he is closer to WHG or ANE in Lazaridis et al terms.

 

[Wilhelm]

Also, given that La Brana is yDNA C, it will be interesting to see if autosomally he is closer to WHG or ANE in Lazaridis et al terms.

The La Braña invidivuals appear on the PCA plot of the Lazaridis study, they are grouped in the WHG category :