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Thread: Eurasian/European origins of E1B1B (All subclades, some older-some newer)

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    Smile Eurasian/European origins of E1B1B (All subclades, some older-some newer)

    I HAVE NOTICED THAT,

    East African Somalis and Ethiopians are all carriers of an old subclade of E1B1B and they carry some European haplogroups.
    Berbers from coastal North Africa are also heavy E1B1B e-m81 carriers(a newer subclade) and all their maternal haplogroups are European/Eurasian
    And E1B1B v-13, heavy in the Balkans and in random parts of Europe, older than e-m81.

    I put it to you, Berbers have a maternal connection to the Saamis, the indigenous people of parts of Northern Europe (14% in some Tunisian tribes!) and the connection is fairly new, 9k years old, but there's one problem 9k years old is when the e-m81 supposedly split from East Africa, how did they get to Northern Europe?

    What do you think?

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    Junior Member Thel 'Vadam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheKingIam View Post
    I HAVE NOTICED THAT,

    East African Somalis and Ethiopians are all carriers of an old subclade of E1B1B and they carry some European haplogroups.
    Berbers from coastal North Africa are also heavy E1B1B e-m81 carriers(a newer subclade) and all their maternal haplogroups are European/Eurasian
    And E1B1B v-13, heavy in the Balkans and in random parts of Europe, older than e-m81.

    I put it to you, Berbers have a maternal connection to the Saamis, the indigenous people of parts of Northern Europe (14% in some Tunisian tribes!) and the connection is fairly new, 9k years old, but there's one problem 9k years old is when the e-m81 supposedly split from East Africa, how did they get to Northern Europe?

    What do you think?

    Some Berbers like Riffians, Kabylians, Chaouis... have Eurasian origin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thel 'Vadam View Post
    Some Berbers like Riffians, Kabylians, Chaouis... have Eurasian origin
    No no all do, but some groups like the Tuareg are heavily mixed with blacks.
    All Arabs/Blacks in North Africa are part Berber but not all Berbers are part Arab/Black if you get what I mean

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    What if the home of all E3b is in the Horn of Africa and E3b DID in fact leave to the Middle East before re-entering via North Africa or something?

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    What if the home of all E3b is in the Horn of Africa and E3b DID in fact leave to the Middle East before re-entering via North Africa or something?
    Wouldn't explain the Saami connection, the European haplogroups in East Africans. and many many, many, many other things

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheKingIam View Post
    I HAVE NOTICED THAT,

    East African Somalis and Ethiopians are all carriers of an old subclade of E1B1B and they carry some European haplogroups.
    Berbers from coastal North Africa are also heavy E1B1B e-m81 carriers(a newer subclade) and all their maternal haplogroups are European/Eurasian
    And E1B1B v-13, heavy in the Balkans and in random parts of Europe, older than e-m81.

    I put it to you, Berbers have a maternal connection to the Saamis, the indigenous people of parts of Northern Europe (14% in some Tunisian tribes!) and the connection is fairly new, 9k years old, but there's one problem 9k years old is when the e-m81 supposedly split from East Africa, how did they get to Northern Europe?

    What do you think?
    I said already, we don't know a lot of things and the science will discover with new findings. However, one of thing is sure. E-M78 (Egyptian origin) is ancestor of following subclades:

    E-V12 Egypt, Sudan, etc.
    E-V13 Balkans, and also South Europe, Lebanon etc.
    E-V22 Egypt, Middle East, etc.
    E-V65 North Africa, Spain, etc.

    Is E-M78* still exist? Yes, carriers this haplogroup, although rare, were found in Egypt, and interestingly, two carriers of E-M78 found in the Balkans.

    E-M78, E-M81 and E-M34 are three main subclades of haplogroup E-M35 (E-M215).

    What is your key point? Tribes moved and tribesmen migrated from one point to another, and spread own haplogroup. Years is hard to precisely define, you can take wider span - and + .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    I said already, we don't know a lot of things and the science will discover with new findings. However, one of thing is sure. E-M78 (Egyptian origin) is ancestor of following subclades:

    E-V12 Egypt, Sudan, etc.
    E-V13 Balkans, and also South Europe, Lebanon etc.
    E-V22 Egypt, Middle East, etc.
    E-V65 North Africa, Spain, etc.

    Is E-M78* still exist? Yes, carriers this haplogroup, although rare, were found in Egypt, and interestingly, two carriers of E-M78 found in the Balkans.

    E-M78, E-M81 and E-M34 are three main subclades of haplogroup E-M35 (E-M215).

    What is your key point? Tribes moved and tribesmen migrated from one point to another, and spread own haplogroup. Years is hard to precisely define, you can take wider span - and + .
    Yes I know, my "key" is that Berbers, and East Africans both have eurasian/European origins (Berbers have stayed longer in Eurasia than the ancestors of East Africans of course)

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    What do you think of subclade E-L19/PF2469 ?

    It is fund in Sardinian samples


    Here's how they break down by country:


    UK 67.5%
    Swiss / German 17.5%
    Iberia 10%
    Italy 2.5%
    Morocco 2.5%


    His age was 9.5-11ky, after you what their origin, how did they migrated ? via Iberia?


    thank you
    Last edited by Yanis; 21-01-14 at 19:11.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    I said already, we don't know a lot of things and the science will discover with new findings. However, one of thing is sure. E-M78 (Egyptian origin) is ancestor of following subclades:

    E-V12 Egypt, Sudan, etc.
    E-V13 Balkans, and also South Europe, Lebanon etc.
    E-V22 Egypt, Middle East, etc.
    E-V65 North Africa, Spain, etc.

    Is E-M78* still exist? Yes, carriers this haplogroup, although rare, were found in Egypt, and interestingly, two carriers of E-M78 found in the Balkans.

    E-M78, E-M81 and E-M34 are three main subclades of haplogroup E-M35 (E-M215).

    What is your key point? Tribes moved and tribesmen migrated from one point to another, and spread own haplogroup. Years is hard to precisely define, you can take wider span - and + .
    What do you do for living for god's sake?
    Everyone with minimal knowledge of haplogroups agrees that there is no connection between haplogroups and ethnicities.
    Ethnicities are cultural entities, no haplogroups entities.
    Where did you get the fact that E-M78 is of Egyptian ethnicity?
    Does not such a statement sounds naive to you?

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    E-y161140

    North African?

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheKingIam View Post
    I HAVE NOTICED THAT,
    East African Somalis and Ethiopians are all carriers of an old subclade of E1B1B and they carry some European haplogroups.
    Berbers from coastal North Africa are also heavy E1B1B e-m81 carriers(a newer subclade) and all their maternal haplogroups are European/Eurasian
    And E1B1B v-13, heavy in the Balkans and in random parts of Europe, older than e-m81.
    I put it to you, Berbers have a maternal connection to the Saamis, the indigenous people of parts of Northern Europe (14% in some Tunisian tribes!) and the connection is fairly new, 9k years old, but there's one problem 9k years old is when the e-m81 supposedly split from East Africa, how did they get to Northern Europe?
    What do you think?
    E-V32 is a clade of Cushites, they were herders who spoke Cushitic languages their origin is PPNB Levant and they migrated to NE Africa during the period of the 'Green Sahara'.
    They are not to be confused with the Cushites which were known by the Egyptians.
    They entered the archeological record ca 5,2 ka when they moved through the rift valley from the Afar triangle toward lake Turkana.
    Later they moved further south to the Serengeti plain, and there is anciant DNA from this area and period.

    E-V32 distribution

    E1b1b1-M35 spread in the Levant where they admixed with people with DNA similar to the 26 ka Dzudzuana cave teeth samples.
    We have Natufian and PPNB Levant DNA.
    I guess the origin of E1b1b1-M35 is the Nile Valley.
    During LGM the Nile ran completely dry and the Nile Valley was abandoned.
    The E1b1b1-M35 founding father must have moved north to the southern Levant to meet the people with the 26 ka Dzudzuana DNA.

    E-V13 is of Balkan origin, as his ancestor, E-L618 was spotted in Cardium ware Croatia and in Cardium Ware Catalonia.

  12. #12
    Regular Member kingjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yanis View Post
    What do you think of subclade E-L19/PF2469 ?

    It is fund in Sardinian samples


    Here's how they break down by country:


    UK 67.5%
    Swiss / German 17.5%
    Iberia 10%
    Italy 2.5%
    Morocco 2.5%


    His age was 9.5-11ky, after you what their origin, how did they migrated ? via Iberia?


    thank you

    E-L19 is interesting it is the ancestor of e-m81
    it was found in individuals from medieval remains in iberia and italy
    source : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6436108/
    https://science.sciencemag.org/content/366/6466/708

    yes it could spread from iberia to rest of europe
    there is also pocket in derbyshire england

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-L19/
    Last edited by kingjohn; 06-01-20 at 19:00.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheKingIam View Post
    I HAVE NOTICED THAT,

    East African Somalis and Ethiopians are all carriers of an old subclade of E1B1B and they carry some European haplogroups.
    Berbers from coastal North Africa are also heavy E1B1B e-m81 carriers(a newer subclade) and all their maternal haplogroups are European/Eurasian
    And E1B1B v-13, heavy in the Balkans and in random parts of Europe, older than e-m81.

    I put it to you, Berbers have a maternal connection to the Saamis, the indigenous people of parts of Northern Europe (14% in some Tunisian tribes!) and the connection is fairly new, 9k years old, but there's one problem 9k years old is when the e-m81 supposedly split from East Africa, how did they get to Northern Europe?

    What do you think?
    Berbers and generally most of North Africans are mostly the offspring of Eurasian populations whom back to Africa since the paleolithic (from South West Asia and South Europe), thats why 75% of North African are carriers of Eurasian mtDNA haplogroup, 25% are carriers of Subsaharan haplogroup and thats why you can find common mtDNA haplogroup to Saami and Berber (U5b1b1).
    E-M81 is 9k years old, but TMRCA is 4800 years, (Bottleneck) and his oldest subclades are mostly Levantine and South Europeans, the Mostly North African subclade of E-M81 is very young (E-PF2546 : 2200 years).
    Like the dominant lineage in West Europe R1b, E-M81 became his rapid expansion during the late Neolithic and Bronze age in North Africa, and many male lineage were whipped out or became minor in North Africa (E-M78,C-V20,G2a,E-M2,J2...)

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    E-V32 is a clade of Cushites, they were herders who spoke Cushitic languages their origin is PPNB Levant and they migrated to NE Africa during the period of the 'Green Sahara'.
    They are not to be confused with the Cushites which were known by the Egyptians.
    They entered the archeological record ca 5,2 ka when they moved through the rift valley from the Afar triangle toward lake Turkana.
    Later they moved further south to the Serengeti plain, and there is anciant DNA from this area and period.

    E-V32 distribution

    E1b1b1-M35 spread in the Levant where they admixed with people with DNA similar to the 26 ka Dzudzuana cave teeth samples.
    We have Natufian and PPNB Levant DNA.
    I guess the origin of E1b1b1-M35 is the Nile Valley.
    During LGM the Nile ran completely dry and the Nile Valley was abandoned.
    The E1b1b1-M35 founding father must have moved north to the southern Levant to meet the people with the 26 ka Dzudzuana DNA.
    E-V13 is of Balkan origin, as his ancestor, E-L618 was spotted in Cardium ware Croatia and in Cardium Ware Catalonia.
    This is a very good explanation.

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    It came through anatolia and expanded somewhere in south europe thousands of years ago, it has nothing to do with berbers unless they were living in eastern mediterranean at some point

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