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You might be totally right, they were in vicinity anyway, and even EEF reached them already. They came to Europe as warriors/farmers.
Having said that, I don't think that their numbers were equal to existing European population. Most likely as small as 5-10% of total. Regardless of their numbers, it looks like they didn't kill all existing European men and took their wives (as some of us expected) but instead mixed heavily with existing populations.
It would be great to get DNA of early Romans and see who they resembled the most, or if they had an unique signature.
Very interesting paper.
So it means that 4th wave of population, the Indo Europeans, didn't bring much of autosomal change. If not their strong paternal Y influence and the language, we wouldn't be able to guess from autosomal DNA correlation and comparison. Or perhaps they were already strongly mixed with ANE in West Asia and East Europe and with EEF of Anatolia, and lacking their unique autosomal signal?
This is great. Looks like we can get a lot of info out of the Supplemental. Check out Supplemental Information 5 in particular.
The Loschbour sample is I2a1b* L178+, which seems to be a now-extinct (or super rare?) branch related to I2a-Din, I2a-Disles, and I2a-Isles. Motala12 is also I2a1b, and although I2a-Isles wasn't technically ruled out, I2a1b* looks possible as well.
Motala2, Motala3, and Motala9 weren't tested very well, but all are probably I2 of some sort, with a few subclades ruled out here and there. Interestingly, all could be I2a1b* too.
Motala6 couldn't be typed.
- both, Loschbour h-g and Stuttgart farmer had almost certainly dark hair (possible link to the Saami who are also significantly much darker haired than the neighbouring nations?)
- Loschbour h-g probably had darker skin than Stuttgart farmer (I find this very surprising! Perhaps non-euro admixture?)
- Loschbour h-g had a chance (> 50%) to have had blue eyes, whereas Stuttgart farmer hat almost certainly brown eyes.
The Motala samples are not neolithic farmers , but Hunter-Gatherers.That is the most interesting info so far. So Neolithic Swedes belonged to I2, and especially I2a1b. That is relatively surprising considering that I2a1b is rather in Scandinavia today than more typically Neolithic lineages like G2a or E-V13. Even J2 is more common. Norway doesn't seem to have any I2a1 at all, out of nearly 3000 samples tested.
Although I2a1 has been found alongside G2a in an Early Neolithic site in southern France (Treilles), the Motala samples are the first example of a group of Neolithic farmers that apparently belong exclusively to haplogroup I. This may be a sampling bias, and Neolithic farmers in Sweden might very well also have included E1b1b and G2a men (+ J and T ?). In any case, it means that Neolithic farmers were already a heavy blend of Mesolithic Europeans and Near Eastern immigrants by the time they reached Scandinavia. That, and the very minor presence of Neolithic farmers in Scandinavia, both contribute to explain why modern Scandinavians have inherited far fewer Near Eastern genes than the European average.
This reinforces my hypothesis that blond and red hair were both brought by the Indo-Europeans (R1a and R1b respectively), but that blue eyes were already present among Mesolithic Europeans.
I have mentioned before that likely minor presence of Y-haplogroup A1a among Palaeolithic/Mesolithic West/North Europeans, but also the relatively important presence of E-M81 since the Mesolithic at least in Iberia, and possibly also in and around France. Both would have contributed to slightly darker skin among Mesolithic Western Europeans.
I am not surprised by that. As far as R1b is concerned, I have explained many times before (eg here) that the autosomal genes of R1b men was continuously diluted on their way from the Middle East to West Europe via the Pontic Steppe, the Balkans, Central Europe, and eventually Western & Northern Europe. The longer R1b men stayed in a region, the more they would have had opportunities to intermarry with indigenous women of that region. Here are the three great zones where R1b intermingled with local populations:
1) Pontic Steppe (arriving sometime between 6000 and 3700 BCE and staying until at least 2500 BCE) : the original R1b-M269 from eastern Anatolia or Mesopotamia (probably carrying mtDNA J, K, T1, T2, U4, and X2) blended extensively with steppe women (daughters of R1a men, mostly represented by mtDNA I, U2, U4, U5, V, W and X2). Roughly 1500 to 3000 years of intermingling, bring Northeast European genes into the R1b autosomal gene pool.
Maybe. I also believe that during LGM the (west-)european hunter-gatherers or "Cro-Magnons" dwelled in their south european refuges, where the sun was shining no less than today, or even stronger due to the reflection from white snow. There possibly was an evolutionary pressure towards dark skin in europe during LGM. Maybe they got the darker skin from non-euro admixture, but this admixture was very slight, yet representing the crucial seed for evolutionary distribution.
I think the ice sheets in the west advanced more towards the south than in north asia.
But you have not paid attention to what the study says, that Sicilians, Maltese and Ashkenazy results should not be taken in account, because they have recent near-east ancestry beyond what the neolithic farmers have, so their results are skewed.- A look at the Sicilians, Maltese, Albanians, Greeks, Spanish, Basque (pais vasco only!) reveals that they have more ANE (Indo-European/eastern paleolithic) than WHG, while being overwhelmingly southern EEF of course. These countries have all in common that they are genetically and geographically south-european and that they all speak indo-european (except basques) and have R1b. So again ANE could be linked to Indo-Europeans. And again it is confirmed that WHG (e.g. La Brana in earlier work) has been largely eradicated in south-west europe.
But you have not paid attention to what the study says, that Sicilians, Maltese and Ashkenazy results should not be taken in account, because they have recent near-east ancestry beyond what the neolithic farmers have, so their results are skewed.
- A look at the Sicilians, Maltese, Albanians, Greeks, Spanish, Basque (pais vasco only!) reveals that they have more ANE (Indo-European/eastern paleolithic) than WHG, while being overwhelmingly southern EEF of course. These countries have all in common that they are genetically and geographically south-european and that they all speak indo-european (except basques) and have R1b. So again ANE could be linked to Indo-Europeans. And again it is confirmed that WHG (e.g. La Brana in earlier work) has been largely eradicated in south-west europe.
That is the most interesting info so far. Most people (including me) would have expected Mesolithic Swedes to belong to haplogroups I1 or I2a2a (M223), not to I2a1b. That is relatively surprising considering that I2a1b is rather rare in Scandinavia today (1% of total), rarer even than Neolithic lineages like G2a or E-V13. Even J2 is more common. Norway doesn't seem to have any I2a1 at all, out of nearly 3000 samples tested.
This actually shows that old clads can be replaced with new "improved" (more adapted) ones rather quickly and without big difficulties. It can explain quick dominance of some R1bs and I2a-Dinaric. Pretty much in agreement what you were always suspecting.That is the most interesting info so far. Most people (including me) would have expected Mesolithic Swedes to belong to haplogroups I1 or I2a2a (M223), not to I2a1b. That is relatively surprising considering that I2a1b is rather rare in Scandinavia today (1% of total), rarer even than Neolithic lineages like G2a or E-V13. Even J2 is more common. Norway doesn't seem to have any I2a1 at all, out of nearly 3000 samples tested.
I agree with that. Many Indo-europeans were themselves largely of paleolithic stock, because north-east europeans are mostly paleolithic europeans.
In the admixture breakdown from davidski I have spotted some very interesting features with regards to Indo-European theory. It is more interesting than the PCA plot. The WHG and ANE are especially interesting:
- WHG has maximum in Estonian, Lithuanian, Icelandic, Belorussian, Scottish/Norwegian (decending order). That more-or-less confirms the north-eastern peak of hunter gatherers, but this time slightly more shifted to the west by Scottish and Icelandic.
- The Sardinians have the lowest ANE admixture, which makes again a lot of sense assuming ANE came to south-west-europe by R1b Indo-Europeans and that the native Sardinian language is non-IE.
- Now let't compare these countries to each-other by WHG/ANE ratio: ANE is higher in the Scottish than in Belorussian. Surprising? Maybe not quite. Assuming that ANE is partially re-introduced by the Indo-Europeans, it means that Belorussians have more west-european paleolithic heritage than the Scots, whereas the Scots have more Indo-European heritage (ANE). WHG is slightly lower in Scots than in Belorussians, but still both peoples have much more WHG than ANE, which again shows the actual northern distribution of the "western" WHG component.
- A look at the Sicilians, Maltese, Albanians, Greeks, Spanish, Basque (pais vasco only!) reveals that they have more ANE (Indo-European/eastern paleolithic) than WHG, while being overwhelmingly southern EEF of course. These countries have all in common that they are genetically and geographically south-european and that they all speak indo-european (except basques) and have R1b. So again ANE could be linked to Indo-Europeans. And again it is confirmed that WHG (e.g. La Brana in earlier work) has been largely eradicated in south-west europe.
- The lower WHG and higher ANE in pais vasco would again reinforce the theory that their ANE came from steppic R1b people, despite Basque is a non-IE language. That being said, Indo-Europeans were by no means ANE only, they had significant West Asian admixture certainly (Gedrosian-R1b, Caucasus-R1a, others)
It looks like WHG (West-European Hunter Gatherer) is today the truely north-european one. Most likely the Saami would have the most of it, but I couldn't find the data for the Saami in this paper.
The North-East european peak shown in K12b and Globe 13 and others probably corresponds mostly to both, WHG and ANE.
I'm still having a problem with WHG. (Western Hunter Gatherer)
I realize this is their terminology, but what does it correlate to by other naming conventions? Is this the same as the NWE (Northwest Eurasian) component?
North European Component? Northeastern European Component?
Do they correlate at all?
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