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Thread: I2a2a3 Concentration in Campobasso, Italy and surrounding villages/towns

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    I2a2a3 Concentration in Campobasso, Italy and surrounding villages/towns

    May I call your attention to the very small, but highly concentrated dot located in South-Central Italy, which highlights an unusually high occurrence of the haplogroup I2a2 (specifically I2a2a3).

    I have a few questions regarding this specific population, because I don't believe anyone's really commented much about it before.

    First, where is the original article/paper that cites this region as having such a high concentration of I2a2a3?

    Second, I've read that this specific population might have originated from the Lombard invasion of Southern Italy during the 8th Century following the decline of reliably-enforced Byzantine authority there. This population is said to have founded the city of Campobasso, and supported the independence of the Duchies of Benevento and Spoleto against the Byzantines. Is this correct/commonly accepted as the prevailing theory? Are there perhaps other theories out there? If so, elaborate.

    Third, what does this high concentration of the I2a2 haplogroup within a region of Italy mostly devoid of that group say about the population that lived there? Has this population simply remained relatively untouched since the Middle Ages? Did they perhaps not intermarry much with other haplogroup populations or move? Let me hear your thoughts on this.

    Thank you in advance.

    - Ambarenya

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    For reference, since I can't post links.
    Last edited by LeBrok; 05-01-14 at 04:40.

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    Welcome to Eupedia. Hopefuly someone will answer your inquiry.

    Third, what does this high concentration of the I2a2 haplogroup within a region of Italy mostly devoid of that group say about the population that lived there? Has this population simply remained relatively untouched since the Middle Ages? Did they perhaps not intermarry much with other haplogroup populations or move? Let me hear your thoughts on this.
    People in the past didn't mix easily, especially with ones who spoke, look, dressed differently. Mixing is rather a lengthy process.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Welcome to Eupedia. Hopefuly someone will answer your inquiry.

    People in the past didn't mix easily, especially with ones who spoke, look, dressed differently. Mixing is rather a lengthy process.
    did'nt mix and did'nt move far if you where a peasant , especially since the renaissance

    my ancestral family moved 20K radius from 1700 to 1950 ( 250 years )
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    Let's not lose sight of the other questions though. I'd like to hear about those too.

    Anyways, I also want to make note that I believe that Southern Italy is a very interesting case to examine when considering a seemingly insular population. During the Middle Ages, especially the span from AD 600-1100 or so, Southern Italy was constantly being invaded, re-invaded, liberated, disestablished, etc. by a great number of major factions: the Byzantines, the Muslims, the HRE, the Normans, etc. It was a highly volatile place. Doesn't it seem interesting and peculiar that this population never seemed to have been displaced or diluted to the same extent as the rest of the region/country (assuming that the Lombards are indeed the source of this haplogroup)?

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    I've read somewhere there was a strong Croat community established in Molise so probably it reflects their presence.

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    No, the only thing that links those two populations is geographic proximity, nothing more. This population of I2a2a3 is concentrated specifically around Campobasso, which was founded by the Lombards. There are certainly Molisan Croats, but they are not concentrated around Campobasso (they are rather, very close to the Molise-Abruzzo border to the North). I think they are entirely different.
    Last edited by Ambarenya; 05-01-14 at 23:48.

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    Certainly not Gallic influence. I see a Germanic link though. The Lombards were heavily I1 but this I2a2a3 may very well be linked to them as well, or to a different independent Germanic movement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambarenya View Post
    No, the only thing that links those two populations is geographic proximity, nothing more. This population of I2a2a3 is concentrated specifically around Campobasso, which was founded by the Lombards. There are certainly Molisan Croats, but they are not concentrated around Campobasso (they are rather, very close to the Molise-Abruzzo border to the North). I think they are entirely different.
    Send PM to sparkey, he is an expert on hg I.

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    Peaks in north-central Germany/ northern Sweden..,.there may very well be a Lombard link as a secondary Lombard marker, considering the bulk of them would have brought the Scandinavian I1a lineages, although as we all know any and all I lineages are rare in Italy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Send PM to sparkey, he is an expert on hg I.
    I don't know if my message went through cause I'm a new user. Perhaps let him know about this thread.

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    As the Official Eupedia I2 Expert I can say with confidence... that I'm not particularly familiar with this case. By I2a2a3, I suppose we mean ISOGG I2a2a3 circa early 2013 (I2>M223>Z161)? ISOGG doesn't have an I2a2a3 currently. If so, it may help to know that I2>M223>Z161 is within the "Cont" group of M223 that is generally recognized as being largely Germanic.

    If you want to dig through sources, Maciamo lists most of his. I can't say I've gone through each of the Italian studies looking for I2 M223+ peaks, though.

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    I2b has a minor high in Umbria/Tuscany and according to Wikipedia is somehow linked to the Dacians (Romania) from were it moved to Central Europe.

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