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Thread: Analysing Eurasian & African autosomal DNA from Lazaridis et al. 2013

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    Is he banned? from when
    Yes apparently he is banned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    UPDATE:

    13) The Caucaso-Perso-Gedrosian admixture might be a composite of the West Asian branch of macro-haplogroup K, comprising mostly the original autosomal genes of carriers of Y-haplogroups L and T. Over time, L and T appear to have been replaced by the paternal lineages of successive invaders, like J1 and J2 during the Neolithic and Chalcolithic, R1a and R1b during the Bronze and Iron Ages, and East Asian lineages (C, N, O, Q) during the Turkic and Mongolian invasions.
    Sorry, this is just ridiculous! I hope this is a joke! Why? Because J2 was born somewhere between South Caucasian Mountain range and the Zagros mountains. J2 NEVER invaded places like South Caucasus, Kurdistan, Northwestern parts of the Iranian Plateau. Paternal haplogroups J2 has always been native to this area.

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    I want to know that if paternal haplogroup J2 'invaded' Kurdistan during the Neolithic and Chalcolithic then from where? From Africa or China, maybe the Moon, Mars or even Nibiru?
    Last edited by Goga; 27-01-14 at 23:11.

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    Hello Maciamo,

    I am a new member, I registered today!

    Your map is very interesting but there is something that I want to ask you. Why you think that Atayal are 100% yDNA C and D, while they yDNA frequencies are the following (Su B, 2000 http + :// + pnas.org/content/97/15/8225 ):
    H6 (O3a1a) = 29.2%
    H7 (O3a2b) = 4.2%
    H8 (O3a2c1, former O3e) = 4.2%
    H9 (O1a1a) = 54.2%
    H10 (O1a2) = 8.3%
    In fact, it seems that none of the Taiwanese aboriginal groups (Bunun, Atayal, Yami, Paiwan, Ami) bear other haplogroups than O3 and O1, apart from Yami who have a high frequency of O2a1. I would rather conclude that yDNA D goes primarily with East Asian yellow component, as the highest frequencies of yDNA D are found in Tibetans (e.g. Naxi) and Japanese, and the D frequency is not very high in Cambodians or Thais.
    I remember to have checked recently Atayal mtDNA lines, and I was excited to notice that they lack all northeastern mtDNA lines such as C, D and A.
    I would add YDNA C3 in your list. The Arctic component seen in Mal’ta, as well as in Eskimos, Koryaks and Chukchi should include C3. In my opinion C3 should also be included in dark blue Siberian component.

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    I see another Scandinav female, Finland in particular, with mtdna I as I suspected it seems I and W within Europe peak in the general Scandinavia region as rarer haplogroups of the region. I was found in Scandinavian skeletons dating to I don't remember when and W peaks at 10% in southern Finland in Europe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    These admixtures bear an uncanny resemblance to those of the Dodecad Project, and one could wonder if that Iosif Lazaridis could indeed be the person hidden behind the pseudonym Dienekes Pontikos.
    Dienekes' posts on the old "Racial Myths Message Board" (2003 and earlier) originated from the University of California at Irvine, which just happens to be the school Lazaridis attended during that time. (The original version of that board displayed the IP addresses of the posters, so one could use WHOIS or a similar tool to find the host name.)

    Coincidence? I think not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post

    ...

    10) Iberians have a small percentage of North African admixture, linked to the presence of Y-haplogroup E-M81 and mtDNA L. Iberians also have traces of East African and Southwest Asian admixture. All three admixtures could have come with the Moors during the Islamic period, although it is likely that there was already some North African admixture in Iberia (though probably in isolated populations) at least since the Neolithic period.

    ...
    On page 65 of the Supplementary information authors write :

    "This analysis confirm that gene flow from Sub-Saharan or North African populations has occurred in the Spanish sample. Table S11.2: Estimates of African admixture in Spanish population. The Spanish population may harbor some African-related admixture representing a fourth wave of migration into Europe, but affecting Spain much more than the other groups"

    Depending on the population used (Sub-Saharan Yoruba or North African Mozabites) to estimate African admixture in the Spanish sample, the authors got the following percentages and Time of African admixture :

    Table S11.2 :
    Yoruba : 1.5% ; Time of African admixture : 66.2 generations
    Mozabite : 12.6% ; Time of African admixture : 73.7 generations

    So most of African admixture In Iberia was probably there before the Moors.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by HQ420832 View Post
    On page 65 of the Supplementary information authors write :

    "This analysis confirm that gene flow from Sub-Saharan or North African populations has occurred in the Spanish sample. Table S11.2: Estimates of African admixture in Spanish population. The Spanish population may harbor some African-related admixture representing a fourth wave of migration into Europe, but affecting Spain much more than the other groups"

    Depending on the population used (Sub-Saharan Yoruba or North African Mozabites) to estimate African admixture in the Spanish sample, the authors got the following percentages and Time of African admixture :

    Table S11.2 :
    Yoruba : 1.5% ; Time of African admixture : 66.2 generations
    Mozabite : 12.6% ; Time of African admixture : 73.7 generations

    So most of African admixture In Iberia was probably there before the Moors.
    ok

    -Mozabites have genetically 4 branches of the E hg with a bit of G2 and R1b
    - They are berber people and before that they where ancient numidian people
    - Numidians fought for Carthage as cavalry troops, they then changed sides and allied with Romans. They eventually where settled by Romans in Spain, Italy and Sardinia.
    - They where more white than black in skin colour, the black came about by the migrating yoruba people from west africa via Taureg area into Mozabite/algerian areas...........I do not know when this happened.

    Conclusion, since Berbers where pre-arab people, how long have the berbers been in NW africa?

    According to mozabites (who are ibadhites=>dont mix with their neighbor arab and berber sunnis and this since the earlies migration of khawarij ibadites from arabia to north africa and oman escaping the omeyyads)
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    this is so confusing, I don't understand how R & I can be grouped together, imo MA1 sucks as a yardstick and the r1b from the beaker culture find in germany would be better

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    18) Tuscans have practically the same admixtures as the Albanians and the Greeks, or even the Turks once their Northeast Asian admixture has been removed. This reinforces the theory of a Greco-Anatolian origin of the Etruscans.
    Maciamo, what's the source for K-20? Samples from HGDP? Dodecad?

    According to Admixture proportions Tuscans have the same as Bergamo (Northern Italy), Bulgarians and Basque country, too. How can this reinforces the theory of a Greco-Anatolian origin of the Etruscans?

    Population EEF WHG ANE
    Bergamo (Lombard, Northern Italy) 0.715 0.177 0.108
    Tuscan 0.746 0.136 0.118
    Bulgarian 0.712 0.147 0.141
    Basque Country 0.713 0.125 0.163
    Greek 0.792 0.058 0.151
    Croatian 0.561 0.293 0.145
    Sardinian 0.817 0.175 0.008
    Albanian 0.781 0.092 0.127
    Spanish 0.809 0.068 0.123


    Lazaridis 2013: Ancient genomes suggest three ancestral populations for present-day Europeans

    "Greeks are compatible with their geographical neighbors in the Balkans (Albanians and Bulgarians) and Italy (Bergamo and Tuscans). Basques and Spanish_North are incompatible with several populations from Mediterranean and Southeastern Europe. Mediterranean and Southeastern Europeans such as Spanish, Albanians, Bulgarians, Bergamo, Tuscans, Croatians, and Hungarians are compatible with each other"

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theot View Post
    Dienekes' posts on the old "Racial Myths Message Board" (2003 and earlier) originated from the University of California at Irvine, which just happens to be the school Lazaridis attended during that time. (The original version of that board displayed the IP addresses of the posters, so one could use WHOIS or a similar tool to find the host name.)

    Coincidence? I think not.
    I agree. Probably not a coincidence. While he was studying computer science at Irvine, evidently already cultivated his passion.


    http://www.cspandasearch.net/scholar...Lazaridis.html

    http://contactbee.com/en/contact/view/5000459

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    PF7443+ T1a1a3

    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    What the bloody heck are you talking about Sile? I'm referring to T1a1a3, my downstream subclade, re-read my posts please. I said nothing of the origins of T*. I said I find it odd how the only T1a1a3's are me (Naples region), canary islander, southern Sardinian and a German fellow in geno 2.0; can you find some more on ftdna?
    I wanted to let everyone know I was out here. I am listed with FTDNA-T Haplogroup-T #41158. I share common ancestor with #E17292 Ubert also listed on the FTDNA Haplogroup-T research group. He was tested PF7443+. On Y-search I am the only Ubert.

    I have traced the Ubert lineage back to 1700s Alsace. Glad to know there are others with this very rare subclade within this rare Haplogroup.

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    I'm E-M35.1 according to 23andme, unfortunately 23andme failed to branch me to a specific subclade. I'm planning to test with FTDNA for more specific results, but until then, which subclade of E-M35.1 is most frequent among Ashkenazi Jews?

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Doe View Post
    I'm E-M35.1 according to 23andme, unfortunately 23andme failed to branch me to a specific subclade. I'm planning to test with FTDNA for more specific results, but until then, which subclade of E-M35.1 is most frequent among Ashkenazi Jews?
    You might get rather more informed opinions if you post your question on the ydna "E" pages.

    You might also find this helpful:
    http://www.jewishgen.org/DNA/genbygen.html

    Or this:
    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults
    Obviously, many people only tested for very upstream clades.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    You might get rather more informed opinions if you post your question on the ydna "E" pages.

    You might also find this helpful:
    http://www.jewishgen.org/DNA/genbygen.html

    Or this:
    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults
    Obviously, many people only tested for very upstream clades.
    Thanks. :)
    Which test should I take with FTDNA in order to find my specific paternal subclade? 37 markers is enough?

    P.S I must say that even the 37 markers test is very expensive.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by John Doe View Post
    Thanks. :)
    Which test should I take with FTDNA in order to find my specific paternal subclade? 37 markers is enough?

    P.S I must say that even the 37 markers test is very expensive.
    Yes take a basic test and then based on ur matches purchase a snip. U should be E-M123 or E-V22 or E-V65 , but u could be everything, u will soon find out

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaan View Post
    Yes take a basic test and then based on ur matches purchase a snip. U should be E-M123 or E-V22 or E-V65 , but u could be everything, u will soon find out
    Thanks. So I should buy the 37 markers and these results will tell me which snp to buy? Will it cost more? Will I have to send a sample twice?

    P.S I read that most E3b Ashkenazi Jews (and Sephardi Jews for that matter) turn out to belong to E-M123, which seems to be accounting for over 10% of all male lines (Semino 2004). In the more general distribution, E-M123's most dominant subclade, E-M34, is most frequent in west Asia and northeast Africa, but also exists in southern Europe. I suppose that most E-M123 Ashkenazis belong to E-M34, I'm pretty sure Albert Einstein was E-M34.
    Last edited by John Doe; 11-10-14 at 18:15.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubert View Post
    I wanted to let everyone know I was out here. I am listed with FTDNA-T Haplogroup-T #41158. I share common ancestor with #E17292 Ubert also listed on the FTDNA Haplogroup-T research group. He was tested PF7443+. On Y-search I am the only Ubert.

    I have traced the Ubert lineage back to 1700s Alsace. Glad to know there are others with this very rare subclade within this rare Haplogroup.
    your line in isogg T is not that old

    T1a1a3 PF7443, PF7444, PF7445, PF7453, PF7457, PF7458

    yourDYS390 =24 .........which is said to be on the young side

    I must say that the PF7443 is gaining in great numbers of people

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