Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: Cuman & Kipchak influence on European genetics?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registeredTagger Second Class1000 Experience Points
    toyomotor's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-04-12
    Location
    Tasmania
    Posts
    144
    Points
    2,196
    Level
    13
    Points: 2,196, Level: 13
    Level completed: 16%, Points required for next Level: 254
    Overall activity: 5.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    D2a1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H2a4

    Ethnic group
    Australian/Irish/European
    Country: Australia



    Cuman & Kipchak influence on European genetics?



    The Cumans are said to have originated in China, east of the Yellow River. They are described as Caucasians with red/blonde hair and blue or green eyes. The Kipchaks were a loose Turkic Federation. The two combined and at various stages became mercenaries for some of the Russo/Baltic states. They eventually combined with the Mongol Golden Horde raiding across central and parts of western Europe. What genetic legacy did they leave behind?

  2. #2
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteranTagger First Class50000 Experience PointsRecommendation First Class
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,331
    Points
    113,888
    Level
    100
    Points: 113,888, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Probably the biggest legacy is by Black Sea where some of tribes settled. I'm not sure about Kipchak or Cuman, but there were more Tatars settling in Eastern Europe than anybody else from Mongolian Confederation.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    27-12-13
    Posts
    20
    Points
    2,940
    Level
    15
    Points: 2,940, Level: 15
    Level completed: 64%, Points required for next Level: 110
    Overall activity: 2.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-M269*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    K1a19

    Ethnic group
    Turkish
    Country: Turkey



    As far as I know Hunyadi was a Cuman.

    I think Bulgaria/Serbia and some other Balkan/Eastern European states may have significant (absorbed) Cuman population.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Achievements:
    5000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    14-10-11
    Posts
    1,048
    Points
    9,076
    Level
    28
    Points: 9,076, Level: 28
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 274
    Overall activity: 13.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    Yes
    MtDNA haplogroup
    Yes

    Ethnic group
    German
    Country: Germany



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by toyomotor View Post
    The Cumans are said to have originated in China, east of the Yellow River. They are described as Caucasians with red/blonde hair and blue or green eyes. The Kipchaks were a loose Turkic Federation. The two combined and at various stages became mercenaries for some of the Russo/Baltic states. They eventually combined with the Mongol Golden Horde raiding across central and parts of western Europe. What genetic legacy did they leave behind?
    I see almost none (yet). Also the traces of Bulgars (alleg. as numerous as "sands on the beach"), Awars and Hunns can not be identified. We actually even don't know what to expect to find. There are exotic traces for sure, but they are too minimal. Only for Magyars there are hints that they were largely europid and they brought additional R1a. There is some Y-HG Q in east Balkans, but it is only in the order of 0.5%, not enough. Then the Y-HG Q in Ukraine is of Jewish origin. The slight siberian autosomal admixture in Russians is surely from Finno-ugric tribes and Saami, as well as Y-HG N.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    14-07-13
    Posts
    196
    Points
    12,000
    Level
    33
    Points: 12,000, Level: 33
    Level completed: 8%, Points required for next Level: 650
    Overall activity: 4.0%


    Country: Spain



    They were described with blonde hair and blue eyes, not with red hair but those description only seem to existed after mixing with Kipchaks it seems.


    Anyway I don't think Cumans were Caucasoids.


    Read what it said about their skeletons in wikipedia.

    "
    The results suggested that the Cumanians, as seen in the excavation at Csengele, were far from genetic homogeneity. Nevertheless, the grave artifacts are typical of the Cumanian steppe culture; and five of the six skeletons that were complete enough for anthropometric analysis appeared Asian rather than European (Horváth 1978, 2001), "




    mtDNA of ancient Cumanians



    A paper on the Cumanians illustrates how these Mongoloid invaders turn out to be Caucasoid in terms of their mtDNA:

    The maternal mtDNA is mostly Caucasoid but their paternal could be mostly Mongoloid aside from that they are also have 16% Mongoloid maternal DNA.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Achievements:
    500 Experience Points3 months registered
    Krum's Avatar
    Join Date
    29-06-19
    Location
    Varna
    Posts
    47
    Points
    575
    Level
    6
    Points: 575, Level: 6
    Level completed: 13%, Points required for next Level: 175
    Overall activity: 8.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13

    Ethnic group
    Bulgarian
    Country: Bulgaria



    If the Cumans were from the Asian race, today the Balkans should have had many and predominantly Asian haplogroups

  7. #7
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    05-09-17
    Posts
    14
    Points
    124
    Level
    1
    Points: 124, Level: 1
    Level completed: 74%, Points required for next Level: 26
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: United States



    https://www.geni.com/path/Philippa-o...00002304359012

    According to her family tree, Philippa of Hainault was of Cuman ancestry, so that means I am part Cuman too, being descended from both John of Gaunt and Edward IV. Understandably, by the time I'm receiving this DNA, it's only trace, if at all showing. I'm not at all surprised that this is through Hungary, no matter attempts to reinvent the people there as just Slavs. I understand that the idea of Hungary and also Turkey, is how the common native people have merely been passive to Steppe elites. If that is so, what am I supposed to think about plotting closer to Hungary on my chart than some others?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •