Collection of skulls.

[MOESAN]

Thanks Johen, it's a pleasure!
Have you a front sight of the crania?
At first sight the profile of the skull is close enough to 'europoid' archaic forms and doesn't evocate me something 'mongoloid' - even the cheekbones don't seem projected too much forwards, and the nose is typically archaic-caucasian - maybe the teeth crown is different??? I cannot say -
the profile of the skull is different from and 'croma' and 'brünn' ('croma' have kind of angle at forehead, 'brünn' is more receding and flatter for with stronger browridges - this kind of receding forehaed, gently curved without too strong browridges and the special meso skull seen from top has a curious shape: so I prefer rely on scientists judgement here, if this stateent concerns the skull you show here -
in the link you gave, there are a reconstruction of a skull (this one?) and the picture of a living 'mongoloid' of somewhere (where?): I see very few ties between both, and I don't know what the text says because it's in russian I don't understand -

[MOESAN]

Okunevo people were said to be archeo-siberian (not well oriented towards neat 'europoids' or 'eastasians') but some of them later in the Andronovo profile shew 'europoid' input (perhaps swept off later?) -

[halfalp]

What could be interesting is to know if there is some Solutrean related skull somewhere ? This culture, seems to emerge from nowhere with a stone technology only seen in Paleosiberia and Paleoamerica. I have search for a long time on the internet, some french physical anthropologists and Carleton Coon wroth about a possible Eskimid Type... All this seems very siberian. Those skulls are very strange and very deformed... Attachment 8870 Attachment 8871

[bicicleur]

What could be interesting is to know if there is some Solutrean related skull somewhere ? This culture, seems to emerge from nowhere with a stone technology only seen in Paleosiberia and Paleoamerica. I have search for a long time on the internet, some french physical anthropologists and Carleton Coon wroth about a possible Eskimid Type... All this seems very siberian. Those skulls are very strange and very deformed... Attachment 8870 Attachment 8871

they also had sholdered points which originated in the middle Danube area 25 ka

[halfalp]

they also had sholdered points which originated in the middle Danube area 25 ka

And you gonna take that like an argument that " Not Worth It " ?

[bicicleur]

And you gonna take that like an argument that " Not Worth It " ?

not worth what? what are you getting at?
there is no Siberian DNA found in paleolithic nor in post-LGM Europe

[halfalp]

not worth what? what are you getting at?
there is no Siberian DNA found in paleolithic nor in post-LGM Europe

Does Solutrean genomes have been study to your knowledge ?

[bicicleur]

just one afaik

Solutrian

Spain

Nerja, Málaga [NE-NT 79]

18,000-15,000 BC

U

Fernández 2005

[halfalp]

Hey i fought i could share some photos that i take in Berlin.

Combe Capelle. Attachment 9085


Attachment 9086

[halfalp]

Neanderthal. Attachment 9087

[Johane Derite]

Hey i fought i could share some photos that i take in Berlin.

Combe Capelle. Attachment 9085


Attachment 9086

The attached photos are'nt showing up, as a rule you should upload them to imgur and hyperlink them here, that method never has issues

[Jovialis]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2...ll-scientists/

The largest changes in skull morphology were observed in groups consuming dairy products, suggesting that the effect of agriculture on skull morphology was greatest in populations consuming the softest food.

This article that came out a few days ago suggests that consumption of dairy products and farming resulted in the shrinking of the human jaw, and made skulls more slender. The reason is because eating stuff like cheese, and cereal required less chewing.

It says farming, but I thought consumption of dairy products and animal domestication was introduced by the Yamnaya. So was it a combination of both lifestyles?

[halfalp]

Neanderthal. Attachment 9087

Oh thanks... I'm gonna see about that.

[MOESAN]

half amazing because the pops the most adapted to milk consomption in Europe (British, North Euro, Basques, by instance, are or at least were the pops with greater skulls (not always the heavier, here I don't know, and the shapes are variated, its only a two dimensions mean (length+breadth)...

[MOESAN]

I add some survey stated the Mesolithic people of Balkans were undergoing a trend towards diminution of teeths and jaw... caution then

[LeBrok]

This article that came out a few days ago suggests that consumption of dairy products and farming resulted in the shrinking of the human jaw, and made skulls more slender. The reason is because eating stuff like cheese, and cereal required less chewing.

It says farming, but I thought consumption of dairy products and animal domestication was introduced by the Yamnaya. So was it a combination of both lifestyles?

As Moesan pointed out, we have to be careful with dairy. Dairy was also thought to stand behind white European skin, but it turned to be just a myth.

[johen]

The skull of a Minoan microcephalic was found in the excavations of Zakros, preserved and studied by Dr A. Poulianos. It belonged to a man of 20 years of age, who most probably was member of the Minoan dynasty. Its cranial capacity is of about 530 cc and reflects a genetic diversion connected to long terms isolation and endogamy of Minoans. Thus neither Cretans, nor members of the Minoan dynasty were immigrants from elsewhere, but a result of local evolution. During the military junta, in 1971, it was given to Vienna Museum for "study". It returned to Greece in 1997 after a juridical straggle of the Anthropological Association of Greece. For the benefit of science we urgently appeal to the world scientific community to assist us in protecting the Greek findings from colonial attitudes.

http://www.aee.gr/english/8other_research/a_minoan_microcephalic.html

As far as I know, pygmy skull capacity is around 1,000cc. If so, ancient Minoan is so small people. Is it possible to be mixed with the other Greeks? Is there any research regarding Minoan skull?

pygmy:

http://www.e-allmoney.com/customs/pygmies.html

mycenaean:

[Johane Derite]

http://www.aee.gr/english/8other_research/a_minoan_microcephalic.html

As far as I know, pygmy skull capacity is around 1,000cc. If so, ancient Minoan is so small people. Is it possible to be mixed with the other Greeks? Is there any research regarding Minoan skull?

pygmy:

http://www.e-allmoney.com/customs/pygmies.html

mycenaean(41.95cm):

I seriously doubt that the average minoan was that tiny. Its probably just a defect. Like koksal baba the famous internet guy.

[MOESAN]

The profil shape of this Minoan skull, whatever its absolute mensurations, is far to evocate the common type among Neolithical Anatolians, and point to a roughly 'westasian' input (S-E of Caspian more remote origin???) - one of the Y-J2 introgressions in Egea and East mediterranea?
As Johan Derite says, it's dubious this size of skull would have been general in Egea islands and Creta, even if a microcephalization process was running on by isolation in some islands.

[MOESAN]

Botai skull:




1.another skulls:
http://iggc.kz/wp-content/uploads/20...noyab-2016.pdf


Spoka -2 was classified as an intermediate between caucasoid and mongoloid, being similar to Okunevo. Any caucasoid skull was not found in Karzakstan before andronovo.

2. Is there any chance of yDna to be “N” like Okunevo?

The genotyping of the "Botaysky man" showed a 100% Belonging to the K1b2 mtDNA haplotype


97.1% probability of O2 of the Y-chromosome haplotype

As a whole he seems closer to western 'cromagnoid' than to any other type, rather far from the 'br�nnoid'like descendants; maybe not the mean Botai type, supposed to be closer to SW HG's of Siberia - I regreat we have not the face picture - seems kind of an old crossing -

[MOESAN]

here under pictures of two Teviec females (7000/6000BCE) of ancient western Brittany (small islands today, in sea!)

Attachment 10148Attachment 10149Attachment 10150Attachment 10151Attachment 10152

they are very similar spite not identical!
they remind me of some 'cromagnoid' but partly "phoetalized" (men: stature 1m55/1m58); some others from Teviec, not here, showed some input of 'chancelade' type, so some upperpaleo first 'mediter'like influence for shapes -

[MOESAN]

I remarked that when I posted my last pic's, they were "pinned" under a reference, not appearing at first sight, but the links posted which worked some time, no more work after some time: seemingly it is the same problem with other posters, whose links are no more effective. Explanation?

[Ack]

I thank again here Lebrok for his skulls posting -
concerning Ötzi, when I saw his skull I did not feal it as a 'mediterranean' crania, and I keep on thinking that - I said and I say again he shows features where more than a type is implied and among them some 'cromagnoid' features, on na 'alpine' way (I lack metric measures but it seems more mesocehpalic than true dolicho- or subdolichocephalic) - the skull is low, the orbits retains yet some cromagnoid traits - its lines are very far from the gentle mediterranean eastern types which appeared at Neolitical daybreak in western and eastern Europe (high skull, very dolichocephalic, narrower jaws, longer and narrower upper face, higher and rounder eyescokets... I confess it is a rough analysis because I lack measures and different angles of sight but... Ötzi was a mix where dominated yet mesolithical traits upon more m'editerranean' ones so the autosomlas dominant 'mediterranean' classification deserves surely to be refined...
I have yet some problem with the less 'north european' and more 'mediterranean' classification of Northern Italians compared to Iberians too

Anatolian farmers are predominantly northwestern Anatolians. It makes no sense to discuss genetic facts with somewhat subjective 'phenotypic readings'. As for the comparison between northern Italians and Iberians: the distance between them is quite small, but Iberians are pulled further north because of the larger WHG genetic component that is more common in northwestern Europe and less common in the eastern Mediterranean. The Western Anatolian component of the Iberians is also more similar to the Anatolian component of central and northern Europe. The Italian Neolithic, on the other hand, was also influenced by a greater diversity of Anatolian groups.