Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 57

Thread: Less than half of French people think that cheating on one's partner is wrong

  1. #1
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,722
    Points
    710,347
    Level
    100
    Points: 710,347, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 25.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    1 members found this post helpful.

    Unhappy Less than half of French people think that cheating on one's partner is wrong



    President François Hollande engaged in a long tradition of French rulers to have (at least) one mistress in addition to his wife. President Mitterrand had an illegitimate daughter from a mistress. Nicolas Sarkozy went as far as to divorce his wife and marry his mistress while he was president. Mr Hollande did the same, but before being elected, and it has now come to light that he had been keeping a mistress almost as soon as he got elected president. While such an affair would have caused a huge scandal in the USA and many other countries, perhaps forcing the president to step down, it doesn't seem to bother French people too much.

    In fact, the French have been far more accepting of infidelity than people in other countries for many centuries. Libertinage is an old French tradition. Powerful men are excepted to maintain mistresses (who are sometimes married too) and are easily forgiven for having illegitimate children with them. This is one of the reasons why paternity tests and any kind of DNA test which can identify a person's progenitors are prohibited in France, the only country in the world to have such a law. French politicians clearly do not want to have to pay child support for their bastards. Why else would such a preposterous law have been voted, in disrespect of fundamental Human Rights, in a morally lenient country that likes to think of itself as the cradle of Human Rights ?

    A recent poll clearly shows that French people have a more forgiving attitude to cheating than any other nations on Earth. Only 47% of French people condemn unfaithfulness as morally unacceptable. This contrasts sharply with other Western countries where at least 60% agree that this is wrong. Even in Italy and Spain, the other cultures "Latin lovers" closely related to France, 64% of respondents are opposed to cheating on one's partner. In English-speaking countries this ranges from 76% in the UK and Canada to 84% in the USA.
    My book selection---Follow me on Facebook and Twitter --- My profile on Academia.edu and on ResearchGate ----Check Wa-pedia's Japan Guide
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "What is the use of living, if it be not to strive for noble causes and to make this muddled world a better place for those who will live in it after we are gone?", Winston Churchill.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    16-08-12
    Location
    Győr, Hungary
    Posts
    97
    Points
    7,981
    Level
    26
    Points: 7,981, Level: 26
    Level completed: 72%, Points required for next Level: 169
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5b2b1b

    Ethnic group
    Hungarian
    Country: Hungary



    One should be careful with French girls!

  3. #3
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,400
    Points
    48,788
    Level
    68
    Points: 48,788, Level: 68
    Level completed: 32%, Points required for next Level: 962
    Overall activity: 20.0%


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    Women fall for men with power.
    Politicians are in love with their own ego.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    13-04-11
    Posts
    85
    Points
    6,824
    Level
    24
    Points: 6,824, Level: 24
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 226
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: France



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    In English-speaking countries this ranges from 76% in the UK and Canada to 84% in the USA.
    I don't think people are very different from a country to another. Which is certainly different are is manner the media relate these affairs and how the common opinion reacts.
    The 84% of the USA didn't prevent Clinton, Hyde, Flint and other American and British politicians to cheating on one's partner. (see Wiki article about the Lewinsky affair).
    I think french people are less hypocritical.
    Anyway, François Hollande is as much ridiculous as were Berlusconi and Clinton!

  5. #5
    Regular Member Achievements:
    5000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    14-10-11
    Posts
    1,048
    Points
    9,076
    Level
    28
    Points: 9,076, Level: 28
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 274
    Overall activity: 13.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    Yes
    MtDNA haplogroup
    Yes

    Ethnic group
    German
    Country: Germany



    The actual cheating rate would still quite differ I'd bet, if not for France, at least for most other european countries.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    20-11-12
    Posts
    577
    Points
    3,220
    Level
    16
    Points: 3,220, Level: 16
    Level completed: 43%, Points required for next Level: 230
    Overall activity: 19.0%


    Country: Canada



    I think the responses to the poll reflect the mentality of the respective population, not actual cheating. I bet a lot of people still think cheating is a criminal offence (and in some places it really is, as ridiculous as that sounds).

  7. #7
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,871
    Points
    312,037
    Level
    100
    Points: 312,037, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    When the full study is released, it will be interesting to see the results by gender for the other countries, and by age as well, if they broke it out that way.

    As for paternity testing in France, it's my understanding that the prohibition is against personal testing, but that judges can and do order it as part of paternity proceedings as well as divorces, so I doubt it has anything to do with not wanting to pay child support, or not being able to get child support payments.

    Perhaps it has something to do with wanting to prevent situations where men arrange to do this kind of testing privately and their discovery of the infidelity has unfortunate consequences for the mother. After all, not all French men feel infidelity is morally neutral, and even for the ones that do, it might be another matter when it comes to having been deceived into rearing a child who is not their own.

    It doesn't seem to stem from a societal concern with the rearing of children because the presumption that the child of a married couple is the child of the father has been part of the Code Napoleon since it became French law. For that matter, in common law countries following the British system like the U.S., the same principal is followed, although it was established through precedent rather than statute.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  8. #8
    Great Adventurer Achievements:
    Three FriendsTagger Second ClassOverdriveVeteran50000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Arm of Law
    sparkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-02-11
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,270
    Points
    71,186
    Level
    82
    Points: 71,186, Level: 82
    Level completed: 85%, Points required for next Level: 264
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2c1 PF3892+ (Swiss)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U4a (Cornish)

    Ethnic group
    3/4 Colonial American, 1/8 Cornish, 1/8 Welsh
    Country: USA - California



    1 members found this post helpful.
    It's a bit misleading, because "not a moral issue" was an option. To me, it's reflective of French popular philosophy to say that any given thing is "not a moral issue," and with 40% of their respondents saying that, that definitely seems to be at play here. The distant second place country for saying that it is "not a moral issue" was Spain at 27%.

    However, the French were not the most likely to say that cheating is "morally acceptable." 12% of them said that, and although that is on the high end, it is less than the Czech Republic (17%) and Chile (13%), and tied with Japan and Venezuela.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered50000 Experience Points
    Aberdeen's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-11-13
    Posts
    1,838
    Points
    52,092
    Level
    70
    Points: 52,092, Level: 70
    Level completed: 68%, Points required for next Level: 458
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H4

    Ethnic group
    Scottish, English and German
    Country: Canada-Ontario



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by John123 View Post
    LOL Maciamo it's so ******* true!!!! French girls are total sluts even here in North America! It must be a genetic predisposition cause it's a real phenomenon as compared to English Canadian women; the French have tendencies towards heavy infidelity; so e times I wonder if French women are unable to create emotional bonds or something; from what my friends tell me there's something deffinetly wrong with these sluts.
    What's the matter? Not getting any? Or do you just not like girls?

  10. #10
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered50000 Experience Points
    Aberdeen's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-11-13
    Posts
    1,838
    Points
    52,092
    Level
    70
    Points: 52,092, Level: 70
    Level completed: 68%, Points required for next Level: 458
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H4

    Ethnic group
    Scottish, English and German
    Country: Canada-Ontario



    I don't think the issue is a simple yes/no. Here in Canada, there's generally strong disapproval of infidelity, but the public doesn't tend to punish politicians who do mess around. If fact, it used to be very much the case that the media just didn't report on such issues, although that's less true now. But it probably wouldn't end a politician's career in this country, the way it would in the U.S. And I suspect that would be the case in most European countries - people may disapprove of cheating, but that doesn't mean they want to punish public figures who have mistresses.

  11. #11
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,722
    Points
    710,347
    Level
    100
    Points: 710,347, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 25.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Quote Originally Posted by Diviacus View Post
    I don't think people are very different from a country to another. Which is certainly different are is manner the media relate these affairs and how the common opinion reacts.
    The 84% of the USA didn't prevent Clinton, Hyde, Flint and other American and British politicians to cheating on one's partner. (see Wiki article about the Lewinsky affair).
    I think french people are less hypocritical.
    Anyway, François Hollande is as much ridiculous as were Berlusconi and Clinton!
    The survey in link above asked directly people in various countries. They answered based on their own opinions, not that of the media.

  12. #12
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,722
    Points
    710,347
    Level
    100
    Points: 710,347, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 25.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    When the full study is released, it will be interesting to see the results by gender for the other countries, and by age as well, if they broke it out that way.
    Agreed.

    As for paternity testing in France, it's my understanding that the prohibition is against personal testing, but that judges can and do order it as part of paternity proceedings as well as divorces, so I doubt it has anything to do with not wanting to pay child support, or not being able to get child support payments.

    Perhaps it has something to do with wanting to prevent situations where men arrange to do this kind of testing privately and their discovery of the infidelity has unfortunate consequences for the mother. After all, not all French men feel infidelity is morally neutral, and even for the ones that do, it might be another matter when it comes to having been deceived into rearing a child who is not their own.
    But why should a married woman who cheats on her husband and have another man's child be protected by the law ? The institution of marriage was created a long time ago almost for the sole purpose of assuring (as much as possible) a man that he is the father of his female partner's children. In a morally loose country like France where cheating is more common than average and people do accept it more easily too, it is all the more important for a man to have the right and means to verify that he is really the father of his wife's children. I believe that a man is much more likely to divorce or leave his wife if he harbours doubts about his paternity. Denying the right to paternity tests outside a court procedure is the best way to drive couples apart. A man who isn't 100% sure of his paternity also cannot provide the same unconditional love to his presumed children than a man who is certain. Knowing French sexual mores, what French man can truly say that he is 100% certain that his wife never ever cheated on him at least once ?

    It is highly ironic that the French are the most tolerant of infidelity when they are the only ones denied the opportunity to verify a child's paternity. If any man can check that he is really the father of a child even before the child is born (as it is now possible), female infidelity immediately becomes less emotionally charged as the risks for the man disappear and only infidelity "only" becomes a matter of hurt feelings.

    It doesn't seem to stem from a societal concern with the rearing of children because the presumption that the child of a married couple is the child of the father has been part of the Code Napoleon since it became French law. For that matter, in common law countries following the British system like the U.S., the same principal is followed, although it was established through precedent rather than statute.
    Other European countries like Belgium inherited their legal system from the Napoleonic Code too, but France is really unique in its prohibition of paternity tests. The French legal system also prohibits assisted procreation for single women and lesbians, which is legal in most other Western Europeans countries. Last year there were mass protests with millions of people in the streets of many French cities when the government announced that they would legalise gay marriage. The majority of French people is also totally opposed to GM crops, legalising soft drugs like cannabis, legalising prostitution and many other social issues that are taken for granted in most of Western Europe (except Ireland, and to a lower extent Italy). In many ways the French are more traditional (yet far less religious) than the average Americans. What is amazing is the size of the gap in mentalities on these societal issues between France and French-speaking Belgium. It's almost like comparing Vermont (or California) and Louisiana (or Alabama) - Belgium being the former, liberal state, and France the ultra-conservative latter.

  13. #13
    Banned Achievements:
    250 Experience PointsOverdrive7 days registered

    Join Date
    16-01-14
    Posts
    150
    Points
    117
    Level
    1
    Points: 117, Level: 1
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 33
    Overall activity: 74.0%


    Country: Canada



    People with no values can exceed the limits. By many, many times. Heh; turns me on just thinking I live here.

  14. #14
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,871
    Points
    312,037
    Level
    100
    Points: 312,037, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Agreed.



    But why should a married woman who cheats on her husband and have another man's child be protected by the law ? The institution of marriage was created a long time ago almost for the sole purpose of assuring (as much as possible) a man that he is the father of his female partner's children. In a morally loose country like France where cheating is more common than average and people do accept it more easily too, it is all the more important for a man to have the right and means to verify that he is really the father of his wife's children. I believe that a man is much more likely to divorce or leave his wife if he harbours doubts about his paternity. Denying the right to paternity tests outside a court procedure is the best way to drive couples apart. A man who isn't 100% sure of his paternity also cannot provide the same unconditional love to his presumed children than a man who is certain. Knowing French sexual mores, what French man can truly say that he is 100% certain that his wife never ever cheated on him at least once ?

    It is highly ironic that the French are the most tolerant of infidelity when they are the only ones denied the opportunity to verify a child's paternity. If any man can check that he is really the father of a child even before the child is born (as it is now possible), female infidelity immediately becomes less emotionally charged as the risks for the man disappear and only infidelity "only" becomes a matter of hurt feelings.
    I have no personal experience with the Napoleonic Code as it relates to divorce and paternity testing, so I don't know how, on a practical level, this would work in the French courts. That said, it probably isn't that different from how it works in a common law jurisdiction. The law expresses a societal concern first and foremost for the care and nurturing of children...the paramount issue is the well-being of the child.

    So, a woman who bears a child while unmarried can petition a court for paternity testing in order to get child support. In a divorce proceeding, a man is presumed to be the father and is required to pay child support unless he contests paternity and requests dna testing. However, even if it is proved that he is not the biological father, that doesn't necessarily mean that he will not be liable for child support. In many states, the principal of equitable fatherhood then comes into play. If a man has acted as a father, provided monetary support, made health decisions, bonded with the child, the court, in its discretion, which is wide, could still mandate child support. Certainly, however, if the child was a newborn, for instance, that would weigh heavily on the scales.

    I quite understand that some men might find such a result inequitable, but society's concern, as expressed through the various legislatures, is for the child. Also, if the child is not supported by the "acting father", then the state has to do so, which in effect means that all of the rest of us have to do so through the payment of taxes. Likewise, children raised by a single mother show higher rates of social pathology, which also has its costs.

    (In real life, in my experience, a man who has reared and bonded with a child doesn't necessarily abandon that child in these circumstances. After all, the child is innocent. Indeed, what can and does happen at times is that the mother asks for the paternity testing in order to deny the father visitation and/or custody, and men can and do fight to retain custody.)

    As to France, at least as I understand it, the only thing that is prohibited is for the husband/father to submit his own sample and a sample he takes from his child to a private company like 23andme, for example. I can certainly understand a man wanting to have that option. I don't know if there was discussion of the rationale for the prohibition, so I was speculating that perhaps it arose out of some concern for public order, and it was in that context that I meant that it was a concern for the protection of women. I don't doubt that some men might have a violent reaction to news of this sort. When done as part of a court proceeding, cooler heads might, although wouldn't necessarily, prevail. In any evident, if the French system operates like the American one, while he might choose to divorce under these circumstances, he might not be able to avoid child support, depending on the age of the child etc.

    Btw, France is not the only jurisdiction that has limited access to this kind of testing. It has been talked about in the U.S. as well, although in the context of the health information. The concern is that the disease risks given by a company like 23andme are not reliable in the first instance, and, in addition, will cause panic in people who are incapable of assessing the information. As the U.S. is a federal system, different states have taken different views. For example, 23andme kits couldn't be mailed to or mailed from New York state. Now, of course, 23andme has been prohibited from providing the health information nationally pending review. Paternity could still be determined by the test, of course, but that hasn't been addressed.

  15. #15
    Banned Achievements:
    250 Experience PointsOverdrive7 days registered

    Join Date
    16-01-14
    Posts
    150
    Points
    117
    Level
    1
    Points: 117, Level: 1
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 33
    Overall activity: 74.0%


    Country: Canada



    Nah; mama can take care of boo-boo if she wants, dada gonna sprint towards the left real-quick.

  16. #16
    Banned Achievements:
    250 Experience PointsOverdrive7 days registered

    Join Date
    16-01-14
    Posts
    150
    Points
    117
    Level
    1
    Points: 117, Level: 1
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 33
    Overall activity: 74.0%


    Country: Canada



    I wouldn't pay for the child under divorce if it WAS mine; if it wasn't I'd be out of there so fast regardless.

  17. #17
    Banned Achievements:
    250 Experience PointsOverdrive7 days registered

    Join Date
    16-01-14
    Posts
    150
    Points
    117
    Level
    1
    Points: 117, Level: 1
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 33
    Overall activity: 74.0%


    Country: Canada



    (Looks up for a few slow seconds)......Oh s***! What is that; a plane?!?! Dada runs marathon-fast out the court room, never to be seen again.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    20-11-12
    Posts
    577
    Points
    3,220
    Level
    16
    Points: 3,220, Level: 16
    Level completed: 43%, Points required for next Level: 230
    Overall activity: 19.0%


    Country: Canada



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    So, a woman who bears a child while unmarried can petition a court for paternity testing in order to get child support. In a divorce proceeding, a man is presumed to be the father and is required to pay child support unless he contests paternity and requests dna testing. However, even if it is proved that he is not the biological father, that doesn't necessarily mean that he will not be liable for child support. In many states, the principal of equitable fatherhood then comes into play. If a man has acted as a father, provided monetary support, made health decisions, bonded with the child, the court, in its discretion, which is wide, could still mandate child support. Certainly, however, if the child was a newborn, for instance, that would weigh heavily on the scales.
    This is getting funny...So hypothetically, if you leave someones wife pregnant, that man is going to raise the child because he does not know. Even if he is smart/detective and finds out, he still is the one who has to raise the kid. Isn't this a system that willfully or not favors cheaters and men that are "players".

  19. #19
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,871
    Points
    312,037
    Level
    100
    Points: 312,037, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by kamani View Post
    This is getting funny...So hypothetically, if you leave someones wife pregnant, that man is going to raise the child because he does not know. Even if he is smart/detective and finds out, he still is the one who has to raise the kid. Isn't this a system that willfully or not favors cheaters and men that are "players".
    Well, he doesn't have to raise the child, and if he finds out soon, I doubt that the court would require him to pay child support, but yes, if he finds out when the child is twelve, depending on the other circumstances, he might be required to provide some economic support.

    Also, let's look at this realistically. Until very recently, there was no such thing as paternity testing. So, a certain percentage of men, higher or lower depending on the culture, have raised children who are not biologically their own. That's no doubt how this saying came about: It's a wise man who knows his own father.

    It's not always slanted against men, either. Think of the many situations in the past where a man has fathered children outside marriage, and voluntarily made financial provisions for them, even if the money had initially been his wife's and would eat into the inheritance of her legitimate children. Today, it's not even dependent on the father's good will and sense of responsibility. He can father a child, and the mother can petition for child support and he and his legitimate family have to share their resources with the illegitimate child.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    20-11-12
    Posts
    577
    Points
    3,220
    Level
    16
    Points: 3,220, Level: 16
    Level completed: 43%, Points required for next Level: 230
    Overall activity: 19.0%


    Country: Canada



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Well, he doesn't have to raise the child, and if he finds out soon, I doubt that the court would require him to pay child support, but yes, if he finds out when the child is twelve, depending on the other circumstances, he might be required to provide some economic support.

    Also, let's look at this realistically. Until very recently, there was no such thing as paternity testing. So, a certain percentage of men, higher or lower depending on the culture, have raised children who are not biologically their own. That's no doubt how this saying came about: It's a wise man who knows his own father.

    It's not always slanted against men, either. Think of the many situations in the past where a man has fathered children outside marriage, and voluntarily made financial provisions for them, even if the money had initially been his wife's and would eat into the inheritance of her legitimate children. Today, it's not even dependent on the father's good will and sense of responsibility. He can father a child, and the mother can petition for child support and he and his legitimate family have to share their resources with the illegitimate child.
    The "player" guy always contributes to his own children thou, as opposed to the married guy who might contribute to someone elses. On the other hand, the woman also contributes only to her own children, except the very rare case when she is rich and her husband takes her money to give to his illegitimate children. I guess it comes down to if you see kids as a privilege or as a burden. If you see them as a responsibility/burden then being married is not the optimal solution for a man.

  21. #21
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,722
    Points
    710,347
    Level
    100
    Points: 710,347, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 25.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Quote Originally Posted by kamani View Post
    This is getting funny...So hypothetically, if you leave someones wife pregnant, that man is going to raise the child because he does not know. Even if he is smart/detective and finds out, he still is the one who has to raise the kid. Isn't this a system that willfully or not favors cheaters and men that are "players".
    Exactly, and that is why the French system is revolting - even disgusting.

  22. #22
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,722
    Points
    710,347
    Level
    100
    Points: 710,347, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 25.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    So, a woman who bears a child while unmarried can petition a court for paternity testing in order to get child support. In a divorce proceeding, a man is presumed to be the father and is required to pay child support unless he contests paternity and requests dna testing. However, even if it is proved that he is not the biological father, that doesn't necessarily mean that he will not be liable for child support. In many states, the principal of equitable fatherhood then comes into play. If a man has acted as a father, provided monetary support, made health decisions, bonded with the child, the court, in its discretion, which is wide, could still mandate child support. Certainly, however, if the child was a newborn, for instance, that would weigh heavily on the scales.
    I find it scandalous that some courts would make a man pay child support for a child that has been proven not to be his. In such a situation I think it should be the mother who should pay huge indemnities for making her husband believe that he was the child's father. The compensations should be at least equal to the damage done, in terms of years wasted, money spent, plus emotional damage caused. In other word a cheating mother might spent the rest of her life paying compensations to the cheated ex-husband.

    (In real life, in my experience, a man who has reared and bonded with a child doesn't necessarily abandon that child in these circumstances. After all, the child is innocent. Indeed, what can and does happen at times is that the mother asks for the paternity testing in order to deny the father visitation and/or custody, and men can and do fight to retain custody.)
    Indeed, if a bond was created by the child and the presumed (but non biological) father, then the father should be able to ask partial custody, provided that the mother pays all the expenses (in addition to the above-mentioned damages).


    As to France, at least as I understand it, the only thing that is prohibited is for the husband/father to submit his own sample and a sample he takes from his child to a private company like 23andme, for example.
    Absolutely not. In France any kind of DNA test is prohibited. This is what is outrageous. The law is formulated to prohibit any citizen to seek or reveal to somene else genetic information about oneself or any other person. In other words, nobody can order a DNA test even for such purposes as genetic genealogy, to know one's medical risks, to know one's haplogroup or ancestry, or just by curiosity or for scientific research. All these are prohibited and punishable by one year imprisonment (enough to ruin one's life) or a 15,000 € fine. Please understand that it is not only the person who orders the DNA test who is punishable, but also the testing company or anybody else who would share genetic information about another person. Legislators probably didn't think that if a French person had relatives abroad who did a test like FamilyTreeDNA or 23andMe, and that one of these relatives came to France and revealed the family's Y-DNA haplogroup, this would also be considered as sharing genetic information about a French resident, and that person could therefore be condemned to one year in prison in France. Welcome to France !

    Btw, France is not the only jurisdiction that has limited access to this kind of testing. It has been talked about in the U.S. as well, although in the context of the health information. The concern is that the disease risks given by a company like 23andme are not reliable in the first instance, and, in addition, will cause panic in people who are incapable of assessing the information. As the U.S. is a federal system, different states have taken different views. For example, 23andme kits couldn't be mailed to or mailed from New York state. Now, of course, 23andme has been prohibited from providing the health information nationally pending review. Paternity could still be determined by the test, of course, but that hasn't been addressed.
    The current issue between the FDA and 23andMe is only a matter of paperwork that will be solved in due time. It has absolutely nothing to do with the harsh and senseless prohibition that people face in France. In Saudi Arabia there is death penalty for insulting Islam. In France people go to jail for wanting to learn about themselves. That's not very different as far as Human Rights are concerned. It's ironic that even ultra-conservative and ultra-religious Saudi Arabia recently launched a government-sponsored programme aiming to sequence 100,000 human genomes to study both normal and disease-associated genes specific to the Saudi population. Who would have thought that the country of the Enlightenment and of the first declaration of Human Rights in Europe is now more conservative and scientifically intolerant than Saudi Arabia ?

  23. #23
    Banned Achievements:
    250 Experience PointsOverdrive7 days registered

    Join Date
    16-01-14
    Posts
    150
    Points
    117
    Level
    1
    Points: 117, Level: 1
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 33
    Overall activity: 74.0%


    Country: Canada



    Exactly. The mother should be penalized, not rewarded for bearing the other mans son lol....again; only in France. I've seen it turn out uhhhh.....differently in the states. This happened with a us marine that was risking his life overseas....they didn't give his ex proper security in the back-court room and they somehow (I suppose secretly) gave him permission to roam the court.....needless to say he apparently found her and dealt great physical damage including a black swollen shut eye and a few broken things (I HEAVILY condone this.) it was probably a random act/lack of supervision but it just comes to show you how much they respect their servicemen in the states....

  24. #24
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered50000 Experience Points
    Aberdeen's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-11-13
    Posts
    1,838
    Points
    52,092
    Level
    70
    Points: 52,092, Level: 70
    Level completed: 68%, Points required for next Level: 458
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H4

    Ethnic group
    Scottish, English and German
    Country: Canada-Ontario



    Quote Originally Posted by John123 View Post
    Exactly. The mother should be penalized, not rewarded for bearing the other mans son lol....again; only in France. I've seen it turn out uhhhh.....differently in the states. This happened with a us marine that was risking his life overseas....they didn't give his ex proper security in the back-court room and they somehow (I suppose secretly) gave him permission to roam the court.....needless to say he apparently found her and dealt great physical damage including a black swollen shut eye and a few broken things (I HEAVILY condone this.) it was probably a random act/lack of supervision but it just comes to show you how much they respect their servicemen in the states....
    You are a pig and a cowardly little *******.

  25. #25
    Banned Achievements:
    250 Experience PointsOverdrive7 days registered

    Join Date
    16-01-14
    Posts
    150
    Points
    117
    Level
    1
    Points: 117, Level: 1
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 33
    Overall activity: 74.0%


    Country: Canada



    In what way? It's a true story. You're a dummy that tries to seize the wrong opportunities to look good/tough. It's both shocking; and a true story. You need to take your military boots off "mister manly man" LOL. "Awwwww, you cowardly piece of *******"; stop trying to act like that tough guy in the movies, some sissies search for any opportunity to prove that they're half-a-man I guess! It seems you've gotten yourself all worked up over nothing, my re-canting of a real life story.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •