Genetic engineering, designer babies and gene therapy: would you do it ?

[LeBrok]

In today's news the first bionic hand that allows sense of touch was tested, allowing amputee feel objects for first time after he lost his hands.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/bionic...ouch-1.2524642


Even though this is a fantastic development for these poor souls, I can't wait till bioengineering can rebuild a hand of other body parts to their natural state and functionality. Stem Cell research is very exciting and promising in this department.
Bionic hand, no matter how good, will always be a substitute, and regeneration (genetic engineering) the goal and the ultimate cure.

[caviar4thought]

Hi everybody. I googled “designer babies” and came over this thread. So I’m new here, this is my first post.

Most sense what it makes to me is first getting rid of diseases and than trying to make the babies more intelligent as ourselves.

It's precisely the other way around, Alan. We are too many (and getting more numerous) and too big (and gettin' bigger; even the Asians are getting taller and fatter). If we were 10X smaller wolfing 50X less of the traditional resources (like dead animals from slaughterhouses, fish, forests, etc) your version would hold some water. What we desperately need is to get smarter, way smarter than we are right now: the new gods on the block.

" But genetical modification to smarten people up might not be the answer to equalize things, because then jobs would also get more intellectually challenging." [Kamani] -- "more intellectually challenging" is exactly what we'll need, since otherwise we'll die of boredom. That's what scared me while thinking how to asymptotically approach the absolute knowledge: Will an absolute knowledgeable entity just die of boredom, since s/he'll encounter 0 [zero] challenges? I guess not, since absolute knowledge = absolute power, so S/HE'll be able to downgrade himself (as often as he wants) to inferior levels of knowledge that'll allow him to enjoy countless challenges.

BTW, what if we're actually .. HIM in one of his escapades?

[LeBrok]

Will an absolute knowledgeable entity just die of boredom, since s/he'll encounter 0 [zero] challenges?

Fear no more. Most people don't feel excited learning or figuring out inner working of universe, neither it is a main goal of any lifeform on earth. Scientific knowledge is more like a side effect of our amazing brains. There are many other things that make the life worth living and fun, like love, family, kids, food, sex, travel, beach, skiing, gardening etc, etc. As long as we don't forget about fun loving genes people will have a reason to live for, no matter if we have ultimate knowledge or not.
However, regardless how much fun we will have and how long we will live in the future, there might be a time in our lives when we experienced it all and life became very boring. For that reason euthanasia will be a very popular method of dieing in the future.

I guess not, since absolute knowledge = absolute power, so S/HE'll be able to downgrade himself (as often as he wants) to inferior levels of knowledge that'll allow him to enjoy countless challenges.

BTW, what if we're actually .. HIM in one of his escapades?

Intriguing. This is assuming that the main goal of existence is to achieve the ultimate knowledge and power. Therefore, how ironic it is to downgrade yourself to "lower" state being, just to find sense of living!

[caviar4thought]

Fear no more. Most people don't feel excited learning or figuring out inner working of universe

We’re not talking about “most people” (who are obviously dumb “Desperate Housewives” watchers) here, but about a super-smart (even all-knowledgeable) entity. A genuine intellectual won’t stop learning. Smart dudes wanna know the “inner working of universe” and of anything else.

There are many other things that make the life worth living and fun, like love, family, kids, food, sex, travel, beach, skiing, gardening etc, etc.

Any sensation is processed by the brain. An all-powerful entity will surely control all the sensations in his brain (or should we call it CPU?) without having to eat the best steak (= a piece of dead animal) or bed a supermodel (= a waxed ape on high heels, possibly carrying some exotic STD’s). HE can experience the maximum possible pleasure/s whenever (presuming that time still exists for HIM) HE wants. For HIM having sex with the hottest woman in the history of planet earth would be like you being in the fanciest restaurant with the best food in the world on the table in front of you and deciding to go outside and eat grass. Would you eat grass?

However, regardless how much fun we will have and how long we will live in the future, there might be a time in our lives when we experienced it all and life became very boring.

Let’s agree upon one obvious thing: only an ALL-knowledgeable entity can “experience it ALL.” Which is good news, cuz that means that for as long as we only asymptotically approach the absolute knowledge (and in the process become immortals) we’re safe, from a state of mind perspective.

Intriguing. This is assuming that the main goal of existence is to achieve the ultimate knowledge and power.

It HAS to be! I have a hunch that the Big Bang didn’t just happened so Joe-6-pack will have $$ for beer and aunt Clarice will tearfully watch soap operas ..

Therefore, how ironic it is to downgrade yourself to "lower" state being, just to find sense of living!

Well, how about not even an absolutely intelligent entity can overcome the Sisyphus’ fate? Like in, ‘OK, now that I know everything I’m bored to death. Let’s simultaneously press the self-destroy button and create another Big Bang – I’ll have again, for a few billions of years, tons of fun (= countless challenges to outwit)’

[LeBrok]

We’re not talking about “most people” (who are obviously dumb “Desperate Housewives” watchers) here, but about a super-smart (even all-knowledgeable) entity. A genuine intellectual won’t stop learning. Smart dudes wanna know the “inner working of universe” and of anything else.

I was trying to tell you that just being smart might not be enough to sustain life. It is very likely that super smart people, with no interest and excitements of ordinary dumb humans, might come to conclusion that their existence is meaningless to the universe and elect to end their lives and their species. I'm sure that, regardless how smart we will get, we will need variety of pleasures, interests, excitements, simple emotions, to keep us interested and alive for a long time.

Any sensation is processed by the brain. An all-powerful entity will surely control all the sensations in his brain (or should we call it CPU?) without having to eat the best steak (= a piece of dead animal) or bed a supermodel (= a waxed ape on high heels, possibly carrying some exotic STD’s). HE can experience the maximum possible pleasure/s whenever (presuming that time still exists for HIM) HE wants. For HIM having sex with the hottest woman in the history of planet earth would be like you being in the fanciest restaurant with the best food in the world on the table in front of you and deciding to go outside and eat grass. Would you eat grass?

In distant time in the future it should be possible to make people so smart and of incredible computer like memory, and download all the world knowledge and experience (sexual included) into a brain of 5 year old super human. With perfect recall memory there is no need for real life experiences, as the downloaded ones seem perfectly real. What would be reason to live above age of 5? Or need for humans at all?

It HAS to be! I have a hunch that the Big Bang didn’t just happened so Joe-6-pack will have $$ for beer and aunt Clarice will tearfully watch soap operas ..

It is egocentric, special purpose humans, very spiritual I must say. World will "survive" without people, regardless if beer drinking or knowledge hungry. It started without our help and it will end perfectly fine without it either.

Well, how about not even an absolutely intelligent entity can overcome the Sisyphus’ fate? Like in, ‘OK, now that I know everything I’m bored to death. Let’s simultaneously press the self-destroy button and create another Big Bang – I’ll have again, for a few billions of years, tons of fun (= countless challenges to outwit)’

The problem is that once the old world is destroyed and new created, it won't be you anymore but other conscious being. It is like saying that when I clone myself, make a perfect physical copy, I can kill my old body and live as new one. I'm afraid that without physical continuity we are losing existence forever, not mentioning that a big part who we are is our acquired knowledge and memories of life experiences.

[caviar4thought]

The problem is that once the old world is destroyed and new created, it won't be you anymore but other conscious being.

That's disputable and, without a doubt, quite an interesting subject to debate. I believe it's our duty to try to become the masters of the universe and if you don't want to follow me I'll call you guys from upstairs and let ya know how it feels like. If you are curious eye my new thread, "Assembling gods, one letter at a time."

[caviar4thought]

Oops, apparently I cannot start a thread cuz I have only 4 posts and I need 10. Maybe later ...

[LeBrok]

That's disputable and, without a doubt, quite an interesting subject to debate. I believe it's our duty to try to become the masters of the universe and if you don't want to follow me I'll call you guys from upstairs and let ya know how it feels like. If you are curious eye my new thread, "Assembling gods, one letter at a time."

Wow, that's what world really needs, another god. ;)
In mean time lets concentrate on more urgent issues, making sure that earth survives and humans won't kill each other, till we manage to create loving real god who will protect us.

[LeBrok]

Oops, apparently I cannot start a thread cuz I have only 4 posts and I need 10. Maybe later ...

Post six fake posts here, and do your thread. I'll delete the fakies later.

[caviar4thought]

Wow, that's what world really needs, another god. ;)
In mean time lets concentrate on more urgent issues, making sure that earth survives and humans won't kill each other, till we manage to create loving real god who will protect us.

a "loving god"?! I can't even think of a more boring dude up in the sky ... And I don't need protection, but knowledge (and, meanwhile, the Jackpot in the Lottery won't bother me much ..)

OK, 5 left ..

[LeBrok]

how did you stick the Alberta flag there?

I got a sticker from a shop and glued it on screen in the right place.
Seriously I don't remember it was 5 years ago. Look for it in Settings, I guess.

[LeBrok]

Gene therapy is entering mainstream.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...e-3a91346acc5e

It will cure 70 million people worldwide infected with HIV.

[rose9999]

Several references in this thread about how "very conservative" people would oppose genetic engineering. This is silly. If they are self-defined conservative and oppose this, they are not conservative enough. VERY conservative minds heartily support this direction, not oppose it. Those who oppose it are conservative lights.
Ultra conservatives are Platonic, Spartan-like and eugenicist. They are very much be on board with using technology to improve the quality of the human population, overall.