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Thread: Questions on my Y-DNA Haplogroup T

  1. #251
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    What is very interesting is the young age of our clade and its "close" ties to clades that consist of all Near & Middle Easterners, especially Saudis which are being tested a lot. The same goes for P322 which isn't our clade but it also contains Europeans (mostly Northern Europeans: Germans, Dutch, Norwegians, and English; with one reported Mexican) on one end and then Egyptian, Saudis, and Palestinians (in P327, downstream of P322) on the other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KFundora View Post
    What is very interesting is the young age of our clade and its "close" ties to clades that consist of all Near & Middle Easterners, especially Saudis which are being tested a lot. The same goes for P322 which isn't our clade but it also contains Europeans (mostly Northern Europeans: Germans, Dutch, Norwegians, and English; with one reported Mexican) on one end and then Egyptian, Saudis, and Palestinians (in P327, downstream of P322) on the other.
    I do not know what you mean with this paragraph
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

  3. #253
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    What I was saying was that both P322 and the subclades of L446 are either found in Europe or the Middle East, especially among Saudis.

  4. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by KFundora View Post
    What I was saying was that both P322 and the subclades of L446 are either found in Europe or the Middle East, especially among Saudis.
    ok, but looking only at our branch

    • • •T1a2 L131 (19372808 C->T)
    • • • •T1a2a F2376.2 (17077206 G->A) FTDNA subgroup
    • • • • •T1a2a1 P322 (14000929 G->T) Germans, Dutch, Norwegians, Yemeni Jews, Saudis
    [A study by Mendez et al. found 4% of Palestinians in a P322 subroup (P327 18747405 T->C),
    but ISOGG designates P327 as a private SNP]
    • • • •T1a2b L446 (16660785 C->T)
    • • • • •T1a2b1 CTS3767 (15164167 G->C)
    • • • • T1a2b1a CTS8489(18050535 G->A) orCTS8862 (18246590 G->T) 4.5 KY
    • • • • • •T1a2b1a1 L25/PF5345/S399 (19136822 T->C)FTDNA subgroup
    • • • • • •T1a2b1a2 Pages113(2713589 G->A)orS17120 (15426389 A->C)
    • • • • • •T1a2b1a3 Z33764 (7247507 C->T) Iberians 2.7 KY
    • • • • • •T1a2b1a4 CTS1080 (7187436 T->C) Hispanics 2.7 KY
    • • • • T1b2b1b Pages11(14496103 C->T) FTDNA subgroup
    • • • • T1b2b1c CTS4571(15719140 C->T) Tuscans 4.5 KY
    • • • • T1b2b1d Y7381(7150898 A->G)
    • • • • • •T1b2b1d1 Y7438(14196904 T->C)
    • • • • • • •T1b2b1d1a Y11077 (22909353 G->C) Saudis
    • • • • • • •T1b2b1d1b Y7393 (21509927 C->T)
    • • • • • • • •T1b2b1d1b1 Y7468 (17395593 T->G)
    • • • • • • • • T1b2b1d1b1a Y7430 (22003091 A->G) Saudis
    • • • • • • • • T1b2b1d1b1b Y9326 (22470399 T->C) Saudis

    we avoid the P322 branch ..........we are both negative for it anyway

    As the t project states, we also avoid the saudis, because the T only arrived in arabia about 1400 years ago as he stated and also confirmed by Yfull team.

    I am also negative fro the branches of L25, pages113, cts1080 and pages11 .................I am left with Z33764 to test


    if we look at yfull then we have


    T-L131S15560 * Z19910/FGC22999/Y6047 * S12150... 34 SNPsformed 15800 ybp, TMRCA 11000 ybpinfo
    • id:YF04665KWT [KW-AH]new
    • T-L131*
    • T-P322Y13246 * Y13253 * Y13271... 90 SNPsformed 11000 ybp, TMRCA 800 ybpinfo
      • id:YF03124SAU [SA-02]
      • id:YF02949SAU [SA-01]

    • T-Y6033Z19923/FGC22998/Y6037 * CTS2880 * CTS11660... 18 SNPsformed 11000 ybp, TMRCA 7300 ybpinfo
      • T-Y6033*
      • T-CTS933S24464 * CTS6071 * CTS933... 3 SNPsformed 7300 ybp, TMRCA 6100 ybpinfo
        • T-CTS933*
          • id:YF04719IRQ [IQ-BA]new
          • id:YF04638EGY [EG-ASN]new

        • T-CTS54CTS54 * Z19896 * Z19926... 22 SNPsformed 6100 ybp, TMRCA 2800 ybpinfo
          • T-CTS54*
            • id:NA20758TSI

          • T-CTS8489CTS8862 * CTS10538 * CTS8489... 3 SNPsformed 2800 ybp, TMRCA 2200 ybpinfo
            • T-CTS8489*
              • id:HG01051PUR
              • id:HG01530IBS

            • T-Y17493Y17497 * Y17499 * Y17500... 11 SNPsformed 2200 ybp, TMRCA 375 ybpinfo
              • id:YF04232
              • id:YF04203USA [US-NC]




      • T-Y7381FGC29140/Y7391 * Y9423 * FGC23037/Y7447... 75 SNPsformed 7300 ybp, TMRCA 1400 ybpinfo
        • T-Y7381*
          • id:YF02353SAU [SA-01]

        • T-Y7438FGC23024/Y7438formed 1400 ybp, TMRCA 850 ybpinfo
          • T-Y7438*
            • id:YF03736BHR

          • T-Y11077FGC29152/Y11077formed 850 ybp, TMRCA 450 ybpinfo
            • id:YF02627SAU [SA-01]
            • id:YF02215SAU

          • T-Y7393FGC23047/Y7393formed 850 ybp, TMRCA 850 ybpinfo
            • id:YF02309SAU [SA-01]
            • T-Y7393*
              • id:YF02755SAU [SA-01]
              • id:YF02204SAU







      Note = YBP = 1 January 1950


      so our line at CTS 8862 is year 700BC ............the line under that y17493 in the USA ( which is my Hill, Perry and Powell "relatives" ) is dated 1575 AD

      The line CTS933 confuses me.........are we part of it or not ..............I have no results for any of those SNP's in that line . The 2 samples are Persian Basrah or Egyptian Aswan.


      BTW, my fathers sample is stated by some T members to contain Galician Spain and Vendee French markers..........I am still checking this out ..........my father has 15% less Italian than me ?!?!

  5. #255
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    Info below by T project in regards to our line CTS8862

    but because you are CTS8862+ you can assume you are positive for
    - CTS933 and all equivalent SNPs
    - CTS54 and all equivalent SNPs
    You can't tell whether you are positive for all the SNPs equivalent to CTS8862 (my bet is all or most of them) and you don't know which SNPs you are positive for of those shared by the two T-Y17493 kits (I suspect it would be very few, possibly none).

    The two T-Y17493 kits are related in genealogical time as they share a surname but they don't have a paper trail to confirm this. 1500-1650 AD is not an unreasonable estimate, I wouldn't be confident to be more precise than that.

  6. #256
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    Thumbs up Italy - T-CTS11984 and L131

    I have T-CTS11984 and L131.

    Nat. Geo said it was Northern European. Which match our surname...Pandolfi. Which is German for Banner-Wolf. The /i/ is an Italian add on.

    However, my family has been in Italy for at least 220 years according to church records.

    There is an old old record of the Lombards which Pandolfi is known to be, that describes their migration that ended in Italy around 900AD. I don't remember the name of the book...but I think it is simple like Lombards.

    When I saw your haplo group I was exited. Based on the surname search I did...there are few males with Lombard surnames left.

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    Sorry wrong thread.

  8. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by LombardsofItaly View Post
    I have T-CTS11984 and L131.

    Nat. Geo said it was Northern European. Which match our surname...Pandolfi. Which is German for Banner-Wolf. The /i/ is an Italian add on.

    However, my family has been in Italy for at least 220 years according to church records.

    There is an old old record of the Lombards which Pandolfi is known to be, that describes their migration that ended in Italy around 900AD. I don't remember the name of the book...but I think it is simple like Lombards.

    When I saw your haplo group I was exited. Based on the surname search I did...there are few males with Lombard surnames left.
    Nice to meet another CTS11984+! So you're saying your paternal line comes from Lombardy? Interesting, another Italian in our clade. I was researching your Pandolfi surname and I came across this:
    Pandolfi, cognomeitaliano di origine longobarda (deriva dal nome Pandulf ; italiano : Pandolfo), importato in Italia dai Longobardi (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandolfi)
    This makes sense based on what you said. If this is the case, then our clade might be Germanic especially since recent time estimates on our SNPs go only about 2,800 years ago (for CTS11984).

  9. #259
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    If you tested with Nat Geno, have you uploaded a story? If you do, it can pop up among the other men who are CTS11984+ in that section and it can show how closely related you are to them. I have one and so does the other user in this thread, Sile.

    Also, have you tested for your Y-STRs? They can help show closely related you are to another male within the same clade sometimes within hundreds of years. I have been running time estimates and phylogenetic trees to figure out how our clades are related and dispersed/migrated and STR info is key.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LombardsofItaly View Post
    I have T-CTS11984 and L131.

    Nat. Geo said it was Northern European. Which match our surname...Pandolfi. Which is German for Banner-Wolf. The /i/ is an Italian add on.

    However, my family has been in Italy for at least 220 years according to church records.

    There is an old old record of the Lombards which Pandolfi is known to be, that describes their migration that ended in Italy around 900AD. I don't remember the name of the book...but I think it is simple like Lombards.

    When I saw your haplo group I was exited. Based on the surname search I did...there are few males with Lombard surnames left.
    hi

    you are one step before Fundora and myself

    http://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpT.html

    this tree is from end of November 2015

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    Quote Originally Posted by KFundora View Post
    If you tested with Nat Geno, have you uploaded a story? If you do, it can pop up among the other men who are CTS11984+ in that section and it can show how closely related you are to them. I have one and so does the other user in this thread, Sile.

    Also, have you tested for your Y-STRs? They can help show closely related you are to another male within the same clade sometimes within hundreds of years. I have been running time estimates and phylogenetic trees to figure out how our clades are related and dispersed/migrated and STR info is key.
    Hi,

    Just uploaded a "story".

    The German thing also explains the blue eyes in that line. My very very Italian g.grandfather had such blue eyes they were violet, with auburn hair.

    Does Nat. Geo automatically test for Y-STRs? or do I do that elsewhere? Not sure what they are?

    Great tree, Sile ! Does "one step before.." mean that you have one more marker than my line?

    How is T-CTS11984 and L131 related?

  12. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by LombardsofItaly View Post
    Hi,

    Just uploaded a "story".

    The German thing also explains the blue eyes in that line. My very very Italian g.grandfather had such blue eyes they were violet, with auburn hair.

    Does Nat. Geo automatically test for Y-STRs? or do I do that elsewhere? Not sure what they are?

    Great tree, Sile ! Does "one step before.." mean that you have one more marker than my line?

    How is T-CTS11984 and L131 related?
    with your marker ...........you will definitely have to have L131
    then you will bypass P322 and have L446 to get to CTS11984

    we are one step further on than you............fundora and I both have CTS11984.............but we also have one step more

    My CTS8862 was found in natgeno...........since they did not find it in yours then your marker stops at CTS11984


    in nat geo.......go to your download area and download your markers................there should be about 14500 markers

  13. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by LombardsofItaly View Post
    Hi,

    Just uploaded a "story".

    The German thing also explains the blue eyes in that line. My very very Italian g.grandfather had such blue eyes they were violet, with auburn hair.

    Does Nat. Geo automatically test for Y-STRs? or do I do that elsewhere? Not sure what they are?

    Great tree, Sile ! Does "one step before.." mean that you have one more marker than my line?

    How is T-CTS11984 and L131 related?
    see if you can still transfer your natgeno to ftdna for free.................then you will have a natgeno account and also a ftdna account where you can be placed in the T group
    write to Gareth Henson from the ftdna T project on any further questions once you transfer your data

  14. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by LombardsofItaly View Post
    Hi,

    Just uploaded a "story".

    The German thing also explains the blue eyes in that line. My very very Italian g.grandfather had such blue eyes they were violet, with auburn hair.

    Does Nat. Geo automatically test for Y-STRs? or do I do that elsewhere? Not sure what they are?

    Great tree, Sile ! Does "one step before.." mean that you have one more marker than my line?

    How is T-CTS11984 and L131 related?
    Is your username "singaSong"? If not, make sure you click the "show your story" option where you first typed it.

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    New Isogg T updated 7th of January .........my Positive L490 which takes me from T to T1 is now under investigation ..............the only other one L206 which does the same , I am negative for

    BTW
    my Mtdna marker has its 5th member only .............from Tramonti di Sopra in the friulian mountains with surname of Calderan, Vedlin and Muin. I have already spoke to the ancestor currently living in central france.

    that's 4 from italy ( 3 x NI and 1 x SI ) and 1 from sweden

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    In Ftdna , another two testers are bracketed with us, one from Italy and the other unknown.........................kit numbers are

    N164010

    N145191

    Have found no info on them...........I think they are natgeno testers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    In Ftdna , another two testers are bracketed with us, one from Italy and the other unknown.........................kit numbers are

    N164010

    N145191

    Have found no info on them...........I think they are natgeno testers
    Where do you see them @Sile? I can't find them in the list of results from the T project...

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    Quote Originally Posted by KFundora View Post
    Where do you see them @Sile? I can't find them in the list of results from the T project...
    yes they disappeared again, like last time..............I will take a snippet next time

    One was surname Greco is is common in all of Italy, the other only said Italy.


    have a try at this new chinese site, for Audna.. its free

    https://www.wegene.com/en/

    it will eventually give you health reports as well once they convert from chinese to English

  19. #269
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    Ok now I think I remember one of those kits appearing and disappearing within a day from our grouping on the T project site. It was the Italian one that had very little info besides origin. It is interesting that quite a bit of CTS8862 individuals are Italian.

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    Also! Checked the Genographic Project for any new member-submitted stories from our line and there is a new one! The username is Fmaldonadocosta, I wonder if there is a way I could contact him. He is Peruvian and writes there is not much exact information known about his paternal line except that it begins in Poland and France, migrated to the U.K. then to "North America" (I'm presuming the U.S. or Canada), then to northern Peru. Very interesting!

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    North Alpine Italian
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    Quote Originally Posted by KFundora View Post
    Also! Checked the Genographic Project for any new member-submitted stories from our line and there is a new one! The username is Fmaldonadocosta, I wonder if there is a way I could contact him. He is Peruvian and writes there is not much exact information known about his paternal line except that it begins in Poland and France, migrated to the U.K. then to "North America" (I'm presuming the U.S. or Canada), then to northern Peru. Very interesting!
    Surname looks Portuguese

    looks like donado Costa ...............which I wrote to a long time ago ...............if it is him, he states he is from northern Portugal next ot Galicia Spain

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    I thought his surname was "Maldonado Costa" but sometimes it's hard to tell based on usernames. If it is Donado Costa then do you remember if he too was CTS8862? Trying to make a connection...
    If this NatGeno user is the same person then there is helps support my hypothesis that my line originated in Galicia/Portugal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KFundora View Post
    Ok now I think I remember one of those kits appearing and disappearing within a day from our grouping on the T project site. It was the Italian one that had very little info besides origin. It is interesting that quite a bit of CTS8862 individuals are Italian.
    they are back again



    Do you ignore the "red" coded DYS .............ie, the fast mutating ones?

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    I was just about to post saying they reappeared. The fast ones should usually be ignored

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    they are back again

    Do you ignore the "red" coded DYS .............ie, the fast mutating ones?
    Actually it depends. The first STR phylogenies I did I got TMRCA estimates in the 2,000+ ybp range similar to Yfull's current estimates. When I ignored the fastest ones and used the slowest ones only, I got TMRCA estimates in the 4,000+ ybp range similar to this site we discussed earlier https://sites.google.com/site/compositeytree/t

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