Questions on my Y-DNA Haplogroup T

I will look forward to it

Pingerelli is 67 marker tested

and hof is 37 marker tested..........below is his ysearch ID
FQX7R

he is DYS390=22


this family must have tested another member , this is the other ysearch ID
Z9PTC
 
But Piangerelli is not DYS390=22, he is 23...

I used all the DYS390=22 individuals who were matches to the main 5 CTS8862+ (you, I, Knox, Dalessio, and Schales). I made a tree using McGee's Y-Utility, PHYLIP data, and Kitsch.exe:
proposed cts8862 tree.png

This can serve as a tentative DYS390=22/CTS8662 tree but I will do one for just the confirmed CTS8862 individuals
 
Last edited:
KFundora said:
But Piangerelli is not DYS390=22, he is 23...
Click to expand...

correct, so I do not know why I match this person from this "expert"

I used all the DYS390=22 individuals who were matches to the main 5 CTS8862+ (you, I, Knox, Dalessio, and Schales). I made a tree using McGee's Y-Utility, PHYLIP data, and Kitsch.exe:
View attachment 7217

This can serve as a tentative DYS390=22/CTS8662 tree but I will do one for just the confirmed CTS8862 individuals
Click to expand...


ok

You have all the CTS8862 I was given by this "expert" except Piangerelli


where is Riols from?..................I have a riols in Ftdna matches who is from an island off Atlantic France near the region of Vendee.


Cna you add Daniel Hof , he is DYS390=22
 
Riols' info from Ysearch (U34WX) states earliest paternal ancestor in Riols, Hérault, Languedoc-Roussillon, France about 1450. The surname info provided also mentions de Fonclare and that is also the name of the testee/contact person... so I believe the real surname might be de Fonclare and not Riols.

I didn't include Hof because he was missing DYS389ii but all of us have 30 for that STR so I will substitute that for his missing STR and include him in the next one as I finalize the relations.
 
Here is just the confirmed CTS8862+ including Puiatti (DYS390=23) which was stated to be CTS8862+

small cts8862 tree.png

I tried using Mike Maglio's biogeographical multilateration method that he devised to try and devise a migration pattern for our branch but his method assumes Neolithic or at least ancient migration intervals of 1 km/yr and seems to work for most scenarios he has encountered. Except that these scenarios included more common and well-known haplogroups like I and G and included individuals that were close matches and most of the CTS8862 branch is distantly related.
originhunters.blogspot.com/2014/01/getting-more-from-your-genetic-testing.html
 
KFundora said:
Here is just the confirmed CTS8862+ including Puiatti (DYS390=23) which was stated to be CTS8862+

View attachment 7218

I tried using Mike Maglio's biogeographical multilateration method that he devised to try and devise a migration pattern for our branch but his method assumes Neolithic or at least ancient migration intervals of 1 km/yr and seems to work for most scenarios he has encountered. Except that these scenarios included more common and well-known haplogroups like I and G and included individuals that were close matches and most of the CTS8862 branch is distantly related.
originhunters.blogspot.com/2014/01/getting-more-from-your-genetic-testing.html
Click to expand...


Puiatti is a friulian/ladin person , IIRC what squecco told me

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladin_people


I am surprised you are closer to dalessio than myself, yet dalessio is number 3 on my matches and schales is number 11 ( all zero GD with me )

BTW.....Schales has a book on his family history in the USA
 
Where and how can I access Schales' family history information? It would help in pinpointing one more paternal origin for our branch.
 
KFundora said:
Where and how can I access Schales' family history information? It would help in pinpointing one more paternal origin for our branch.
Click to expand...

https://books.google.com.au/books?i...a=X&ei=koJKVcrMDcezmwXzz4HYBw&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA

check my post #166 .............it states the same guy and the link I mentioned.


same family furthe back in time
http://www.myheritage.com/names/heinrich_schales

before 1750 , their surname was Schullus


The only link I can see so far for me is a marriage with a MOSER
807 moser surnames in Italy.

682 Trentino A.A.
39 Veneto
22 Lombardia

In Italy they state Moser is German
Surname meaning for "Moser"
South German: topographic name for someone who lived near a peat bog, Middle High German mos

Found In ULM


Back to Schales.........the German origin is in Hesse and the older origin is in Pfalz
 
Were they confirmed CTS8862 or just DYS390=22? Because T-CTS11984* individuals are also DYS390=22 (i.e. Espinoza from Nat Geno/Ysearch), unless they may have been upgraded to CTS8862...

I am currently analyzing only the confirmed and predicted CTS8862 from the T FTDNA Project (21 individuals) to best interpret and predict our migrational history and connections. On Ysearch they may match but I do not know if they are CTS8862 or not. Anyways, if they still match with the slowest STRs, they should fit into the tree the same as they did in my previous ones that took into account all the STRs. I even did one for those 10 that tested 67 markers, which should be more accurate.
 
KFundora said:
Were they confirmed CTS8862 or just DYS390=22? Because T-CTS11984* individuals are also DYS390=22 (i.e. Espinoza from Nat Geno/Ysearch), unless they may have been upgraded to CTS8862...

I am currently analyzing only the confirmed and predicted CTS8862 from the T FTDNA Project (21 individuals) to best interpret and predict our migrational history and connections. On Ysearch they may match but I do not know if they are CTS8862 or not. Anyways, if they still match with the slowest STRs, they should fit into the tree the same as they did in my previous ones that took into account all the STRs. I even did one for those 10 that tested 67 markers, which should be more accurate.
Click to expand...

yes confirmed CTS8862 with DYS390=22

will send you info privately to what the project stated
 
I will include them in my revamped analysis of CTS8862. But the one I did yesterday using the slowest STRs and the ones Y-Utility includes (especially in the 67 set) showed a TMRCA for our clade at around 4,500 years ago just like Banks' tree shows. Of course it shows highly increased values in regards to the TMRCA of smaller subgroupings such as Knox and other individuals of shared surnames but it appears more accurate and realistic. The 67 tree shows some interesting results as well. Here they are:
37 markers.png
This is the 37 marker one and the values are in generations. Multiply them by 2 to get the actual generational distance and then I multiplied that by 25 and 30 for a possible range in years.

Here is the 67 one:
67 markers.png
 
There appears to be distinct Ashkenazi Jewish cluster within our clade but it most likely is the result of an early convert to Judaism because the rest of our clade has no history of Jewish tradition.
 
KFundora said:
I will include them in my revamped analysis of CTS8862. But the one I did yesterday using the slowest STRs and the ones Y-Utility includes (especially in the 67 set) showed a TMRCA for our clade at around 4,500 years ago just like Banks' tree shows. Of course it shows highly increased values in regards to the TMRCA of smaller subgroupings such as Knox and other individuals of shared surnames but it appears more accurate and realistic. The 67 tree shows some interesting results as well. Here they are:
View attachment 7306
This is the 37 marker one and the values are in generations. Multiply them by 2 to get the actual generational distance and then I multiplied that by 25 and 30 for a possible range in years.

Here is the 67 one:
View attachment 7307
Click to expand...

The project manager believes that CTS8862 was slightly younger than 4500 ....more like 4000
 
KFundora said:
I will include them in my revamped analysis of CTS8862. But the one I did yesterday using the slowest STRs and the ones Y-Utility includes (especially in the 67 set) showed a TMRCA for our clade at around 4,500 years ago just like Banks' tree shows. Of course it shows highly increased values in regards to the TMRCA of smaller subgroupings such as Knox and other individuals of shared surnames but it appears more accurate and realistic. The 67 tree shows some interesting results as well. Here they are:
View attachment 7306
This is the 37 marker one and the values are in generations. Multiply them by 2 to get the actual generational distance and then I multiplied that by 25 and 30 for a possible range in years.

Here is the 67 one:
View attachment 7307
Click to expand...

in your 37 marker chart, it seems odd that I am distant from many of my zero genetic distance FTDNA people of:

Hill
HillSC
Fundora
Schales
Jones
D'Alessio
 
KFundora said:
There appears to be distinct Ashkenazi Jewish cluster within our clade but it most likely is the result of an early convert to Judaism because the rest of our clade has no history of Jewish tradition.
Click to expand...

interesting

my tests show
Ftdna = zero ashkenazi
23andme = 0.3% ashkenazi ....................but phasing indicates not paternal, so it a woman who married into my paternal line
 
Sile remember,

Those were your 12 or 25 marker comparison, not your 37. So at 37 markers they will appear much more distant because more markers are taken into account
 
Sile said:
interesting

my tests show
Ftdna = zero ashkenazi
23andme = 0.3% ashkenazi ....................but phasing indicates not paternal, so it a woman who married into my paternal line
Click to expand...

Even if our clade was Ashkenazi, given our geographic and genetic distance our "Ashkenazi Jewish" admixture would have disappeared a long time ago. But our clade is not Ashkenazi.
 
KFundora said:
Even if our clade was Ashkenazi, given our geographic and genetic distance our "Ashkenazi Jewish" admixture would have disappeared a long time ago. But our clade is not Ashkenazi.
Click to expand...

thanks


BTW, on other T thread , Samaniego states he is also L446 ( from Spain )

wonder if Samaniego is made up name , because, ego endings on surnames are western Veneto ( Verona , Vicenza) while igo endings are in Eastern Veneto ( Venice and Padua )

Martinego ( vicenza )

Barbarigo ( venice )
 
Yes, I noticed and I responded to him to help. Samaniego is a surname emanating from Álava, a province of the Basque Country where his paternal line originates and it was adopted as a surname after the town named Samaniego in Álava. So it is most certainly an Iberian surname and makes the origin and spread of L446 and its downstream clades more intriguing.
 
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