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Thread: Questions on my Y-DNA Haplogroup T

  1. #476
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
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    Australia
    Posts
    5,115

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    William ( bradshaw ) Atherholt ..ancestral line.'
    .
    Christian Atherholt 1724-1812 Hanover Germany
    father of
    Christian Atherholt 1756 - 1838 died in USA
    father of
    John Atherholt 1817 -1883 USA
    etc
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

  2. #477
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
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    Australia
    Posts
    5,115

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Unsure what to make of phylogeographer
    in regard to T haplogroup .............looks like they state the beginning was Mardin East Turkey
    and my SNP of Z19945 created in Porrentruy Switzerland
    .
    Below is there map for my line
    .
    other map showed CTS1848 origins are East of Paris
    .

    .
    These people have access to all genetic services and data can only be entered by administrators

  3. #478
    Regular Member Salento's Avatar
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - SK1480
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12a

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Questions on my Y-DNA Haplogroup T

    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    Unsure what to make of phylogeographer
    in regard to T haplogroup .............looks like they state the beginning was Mardin East Turkey
    and my SNP of Z19945 created in Porrentruy Switzerland
    .
    Below is there map for my line
    .
    other map showed CTS1848 origins are East of Paris
    .

    .
    These people have access to all genetic services and data can only be entered by administrators
    I noticed T CTS54 around Rome.
    Z19945 is younger than CTS54.
    ... CTS54 > CTS8489 (CTS8862) > Z19945 > CTS1848
    Just wondering if that CTS54 is final, or not.

    ps I can’t figure out your Avatar, are you drowning upside-down? LOL
    Wait, I see it now: Message in a Bottle. :)
    🕷️

  4. #479
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
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    5,115

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    I noticed T CTS54 around Rome.
    Z19945 is younger than CTS54.
    ... CTS54 > CTS8489 (CTS8862) > Z19945 > CTS1848
    Just wondering if that CTS54 is final, or not.

    ps I can’t figure out your Avatar, are you drowning upside-down? LOL
    Wait, I see it now: Message in a Bottle. :)
    I spoke to the administrators and they state the the points are final, but the migrational route is not......CTS8489 is near Geneva on the map.
    As I state , unsure how accurate it is , but as usual it would get better as they place more Yfull and Bigy samples into it.
    I thought I better change my avatar since I ran it for over 2 years...........I did not know it is an "issue" for some

  5. #480
    Regular Member Huracan's Avatar
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    21-02-14
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    215

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2-CTS1848
    MtDNA haplogroup
    L3e2b Yoruba/Fulbe

    Ethnic group
    Hispano-Cuban
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    Unsure what to make of phylogeographer
    in regard to T haplogroup .............looks like they state the beginning was Mardin East Turkey
    and my SNP of Z19945 created in Porrentruy Switzerland
    .
    Below is there map for my line
    .
    other map showed CTS1848 origins are East of Paris
    .

    .
    These people have access to all genetic services and data can only be entered by administrators
    This is very interesting! I've never heard of this feature before and wonder how accurate it is. The migration pattern they propose is different than the ones I was hypothesizing for our clades all the way back to L446 and especially CTS11984... I don't think CTS11984/CTS54 originated in Italy because there is an Armenian in the T project that is CTS11984+. I think the Swiss Alp placement of CTS8489/CTS8862 is still consistent with the Ashkenazi Jewish CTS8862+ group in the T project since this population is believed to descend from Jews living along the Rhine and in the general surrounding region. Interesting nonetheless.

  6. #481
    Regular Member Salento's Avatar
    Join Date
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    4,999

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - SK1480
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12a

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    1 members found this post helpful.

    Questions on my Y-DNA Haplogroup T

    Quote Originally Posted by Huracan View Post
    This is very interesting! I've never heard of this feature before and wonder how accurate it is. The migration pattern they propose is different than the ones I was hypothesizing for our clades all the way back to L446 and especially CTS11984... I don't think CTS11984/CTS54 originated in Italy because there is an Armenian in the T project that is CTS11984+. I think the Swiss Alp placement of CTS8489/CTS8862 is still consistent with the Ashkenazi Jewish CTS8862+ group in the T project since this population is believed to descend from Jews living along the Rhine and in the general surrounding region. Interesting nonetheless.
    L446 is more than 7000 years old, CTS11984/CTS54 almost 4.000, CTS8862 is about 3.100 years old.
    Countless events, movements, tribal splits with consequential migrations, .... I could go on and on.
    As an example, 400 years after was formed, the main tribe of CTS8862 could have split in 2-3 or 4 tribes, each one of them moving at different, or opposte directions. Each of the tribes eventually joined other populations.
    Same examples applies to all clades.
    Who Knows for sure.

  7. #482
    Junior Member
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    Tampa Florida
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1B - L21
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6A

    Ethnic group
    European: Swiss, German, English
    Country: United States



    I recently had my Uncle {on my mothers side} tested on 23andMe, to see what my deceased Grandfathers YDNA was. We are all 100% European, almost all Northern European. He was born in London England in 1901. So I was expecting a R1B, R1A, or a I1 12. But no.... we get a T-CTS6507 in Britain- less then 1%.!
    Who else has this with a family tree in England, where can I start and try and get further details? further how or if does this tie into Thomas Jeffersons family tree or is this a different line. Looking for some help

  8. #483
    Regular Member Salento's Avatar
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    4,999

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - SK1480
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12a

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Questions on my Y-DNA Haplogroup T

    Quote Originally Posted by Remund View Post
    I recently had my Uncle {on my mothers side} tested on 23andMe, to see what my deceased Grandfathers YDNA was. We are all 100% European, almost all Northern European. He was born in London England in 1901. So I was expecting a R1B, R1A, or a I1 12. But no.... we get a T-CTS6507 in Britain- less then 1%.!
    Who else has this with a family tree in England, where can I start and try and get further details? further how or if does this tie into Thomas Jeffersons family tree or is this a different line. Looking for some help
    Thomas Jefferson: T1a1a1b1a1a1 PF7444
    Your Uncle: T1a1a1b2b2b1a1a CTS6507
    Not a family tree connection with Jefferson, but a much older relation.

    Your Uncle could be positive for more subclades.
    By Alpenjager:
    ... Thomas Jefferson belongs to T1a1a1b1a1a1-PF7444. Is a 5300ybp large and widely distributed West Eurasia T subclade also found well distributed in Great Britain but sadly still understudied in comparison to other T branches..

    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...l=1#post541447

    Look for CTS6507 for matches:
    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...frame=yresults

  9. #484
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
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    Australia
    Posts
    5,115

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Corson line of T1a2-L446

    Samuel Corson 1686 - 1764 born NY USA
    wife Mary Potts
    .
    f. Corneilius 1660 - 1719 born USA
    wife Hannah Hobbs
    .
    f. Jan Courson born south Netherlands
    wife Truque Muche
    .
    f. Hendrick Courson born 1620 Netherlands
    .
    f. Jan Corssen born 1596 Netherlands
    .
    f. Peter Corssen born 1558 netherlands
    wife Annetje Gerrits
    .
    .
    Seem like another T-L446 that is north of the Alps

  10. #485
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Huracan View Post
    This is very interesting! I've never heard of this feature before and wonder how accurate it is. The migration pattern they propose is different than the ones I was hypothesizing for our clades all the way back to L446 and especially CTS11984... I don't think CTS11984/CTS54 originated in Italy because there is an Armenian in the T project that is CTS11984+. I think the Swiss Alp placement of CTS8489/CTS8862 is still consistent with the Ashkenazi Jewish CTS8862+ group in the T project since this population is believed to descend from Jews living along the Rhine and in the general surrounding region. Interesting nonetheless.
    The Placement of Z19945 is in the Jura caves/Jura mountains
    I ( and others) recently gave the person the ancient T samples ......shortly he will use these to reset the paths of T
    we will see how accurate this is
    I think that L446 did not originate in the eastern alps as some have noted, but further north, more likely the north european plain..............we seem to find far too many british families appear with T1a2 SNPs and also noted after the anglo-saxon invasion of England

  11. #486
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    2 members found this post helpful.
    my Global25 results
    .
    Barcin_N,56.6
    Yamnaya_Samara,37.2
    WHG,6
    Yoruba,0.2
    .
    I am VG spot on map below......by myself
    .

  12. #487
    Regular Member Salento's Avatar
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - SK1480
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12a

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Questions on my Y-DNA Haplogroup T

    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    my Global25 results
    .
    Barcin_N,56.6
    Yamnaya_Samara,37.2
    WHG,6
    Yoruba,0.2
    .
    I am VG spot on map below......by myself
    .
    Northern Italy.
    Compare yourself with the T1a2 bbk # CL23:



    Nice! :)

  13. #488
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    1 members found this post helpful.
    I was given this from my Global25 numbers


    and my cousin from Cles Trentino got same numbers except lower saxony ( 2 % ) instead of the English I got

  14. #489
    Regular Member Huracan's Avatar
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    21-02-14
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    215

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2-CTS1848
    MtDNA haplogroup
    L3e2b Yoruba/Fulbe

    Ethnic group
    Hispano-Cuban
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    my Global25 results
    .
    Barcin_N,56.6
    Yamnaya_Samara,37.2
    WHG,6
    Yoruba,0.2
    .
    I am VG spot on map below......by myself
    .
    How did you calculate this for yourself, @Sile?

  15. #490
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
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    Australia
    Posts
    5,115

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Huracan View Post
    How did you calculate this for yourself, @Sile?
    no, through eurogenes and then another source
    they basically said I am in "the ancient box " of the alps, not north italian or central italian and not tyrolese, not adriatic coast........basically seems to be around salzburg to heading to innsbruck.....I will link another map if I can relog back in , in the next 15 minutes
    .
    my other plot...........i am VG

    the other North -east italians are also isolated......it seems the Bergamo ( north-italian ) is different
    Last edited by Sile; 16-11-18 at 07:13.

  16. #491
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
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    5,115

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    From the same eurogenes calculator as above .....compared to ancient samples
    .
    "distance%=2.0102"
    .
    GERMANI, 34.8
    ITALI, 33.6
    GRAECI, 24.8
    ILLYRII, 2.4
    SYRIA, 2.4
    VENEDI, 2

    .
    Hiperboreans - people from far north for the Greeks.
    .
    Venedi for this test - Balto-Slavic people living in NE Europe
    ...................................

    after more ancient uploaded

    my results have slightly changed to

    "distance%=2.0103"


    GERMANI,34.4
    ITALI,33.6
    GRAECI,23
    ILLYRII,3.6
    SYRIA,3
    NEURI SLAVI,2.4
    Last edited by Sile; 18-11-18 at 18:28.

  17. #492
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Another T1a2 that matches myself

    William Henry Sizemore, 1844 - 1922
    William Henry Sizemore was born on June 6 1844, in Christian, Kentucky, USA, to Henry William Sizemore and Elizabeth Messamore (born Parker).
    Henry was born in 1809, in Virginia, USA.
    Elizabeth was born in 1814, in North Carolina, USA.

    Oldest man I found from this line was 1553 in Middlesex England
    .
    .
    He served in the Confederate States CSA during the civil war ..............but must of left Kentucky for South Carolina as Kentucky stayed in the Union even though it was a slave state
    he was part of
    3rd Battalion, South Carolina Light Artillery (Palmetto Battalion)
    .
    Brief History
    .
    The 3rd Battalion, South Carolina Light Artillery was also known the Palmetto Battalion, Palmetto Battalion Light Artillery, and White's Battalion South Carolina Light Artillery). It was organized in November/December of 1861. Its members were from the counties of Allendale, Richland, Charleston, Georgetown, and Kershaw. The battalion started with with three companies and seven others were added at various times, the last about June 21, 1863. known as the Palmetto Battalion Light Artillery, and also White's Battalion South Carolina Light Artillery. For some time the unit served in the Department of South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida, but the companies were frequently detached to serve in other battalions. The 3rd Battalion Light Artillery was dissolved by the end of 1864.[1][2]
    .
    .
    He matches my other T1a2 USA matches
    David A Hill 1850, ........Georgia
    Nathaniel Hill 1825, .......Virginia
    William A hill 1782 ...North Carolina
    and John M Hill 1819...South Carolina

  18. #493
    Regular Member Salento's Avatar
    Join Date
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    Posts
    4,999

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - SK1480
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12a

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    1 members found this post helpful.
    ​maybe related?

    “Hunting Shirt” (Henry Sizemore)

    1791 North Carolina - 1875 Clay, Kentucky



    https://www.geni.com/people/Henry-Hu...00011759534491
    Last edited by Salento; 03-02-19 at 22:27. Reason: Link

  19. #494
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
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    5,115

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    a yfull find for a match for me
    .
    YF06979 .......Henry Sizemore b. 1810 and d.1877
    must be the father of Henry William Sizemore

  20. #495
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    a yfull find for a match for me
    .
    YF06979 .......Henry Sizemore b. 1810 and d.1877
    must be the father of Henry William Sizemore
    https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surn...sizemore/1989/
    Origin of the surname:
    SIZEMORE (Eng.) Descendant of Sigmar (victory, great) dweller on the Saxon's wasteland1
    When I checked the LDS IGI for England (Jan/Feb 1988) many years ago, I found numerous pages of records. There were 44 spelling variants of SIZEMORE. The earliest record was dated 1556 and largest concentration of the surname was in the county of Gloucester.2
    .
    another theory
    The Sizemores have been in America since at least the 17th century. Some branches spell it Sisemore. The name is cognate with Cismor and other Portuguese surnames.
    is it Saxon, Suebi ancient invasion of iberia?
    .
    another ...hungarian surname Zizmer
    https://books.google.com.au/books?id...sigmar&f=false
    .
    .
    I only found that the sizemore surname are ydna T and Ydna Q

  21. #496
    Regular Member Huracan's Avatar
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    21-02-14
    Posts
    215

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2-CTS1848
    MtDNA haplogroup
    L3e2b Yoruba/Fulbe

    Ethnic group
    Hispano-Cuban
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    Another T1a2 that matches myself

    William Henry Sizemore, 1844 - 1922
    William Henry Sizemore was born on June 6 1844, in Christian, Kentucky, USA, to Henry William Sizemore and Elizabeth Messamore (born Parker).
    Henry was born in 1809, in Virginia, USA.
    Elizabeth was born in 1814, in North Carolina, USA.

    Oldest man I found from this line was 1553 in Middlesex England
    .
    .
    He served in the Confederate States CSA during the civil war ..............but must of left Kentucky for South Carolina as Kentucky stayed in the Union even though it was a slave state
    he was part of
    3rd Battalion, South Carolina Light Artillery (Palmetto Battalion)
    .
    Brief History
    .
    The 3rd Battalion, South Carolina Light Artillery was also known the Palmetto Battalion, Palmetto Battalion Light Artillery, and White's Battalion South Carolina Light Artillery). It was organized in November/December of 1861. Its members were from the counties of Allendale, Richland, Charleston, Georgetown, and Kershaw. The battalion started with with three companies and seven others were added at various times, the last about June 21, 1863. known as the Palmetto Battalion Light Artillery, and also White's Battalion South Carolina Light Artillery. For some time the unit served in the Department of South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida, but the companies were frequently detached to serve in other battalions. The 3rd Battalion Light Artillery was dissolved by the end of 1864.[1][2]
    .
    .
    He matches my other T1a2 USA matches
    David A Hill 1850, ........Georgia
    Nathaniel Hill 1825, .......Virginia
    William A hill 1782 ...North Carolina
    and John M Hill 1819...South Carolina
    Interesting update! I checked the FTDNA T group and saw that this Sizemore individual is only CTS11984+

  22. #497
    Regular Member Huracan's Avatar
    Join Date
    21-02-14
    Posts
    215

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2-CTS1848
    MtDNA haplogroup
    L3e2b Yoruba/Fulbe

    Ethnic group
    Hispano-Cuban
    Country: United States



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surn...sizemore/1989/
    Origin of the surname:
    SIZEMORE (Eng.) Descendant of Sigmar (victory, great) dweller on the Saxon's wasteland1
    When I checked the LDS IGI for England (Jan/Feb 1988) many years ago, I found numerous pages of records. There were 44 spelling variants of SIZEMORE. The earliest record was dated 1556 and largest concentration of the surname was in the county of Gloucester.2
    .
    another theory
    The Sizemores have been in America since at least the 17th century. Some branches spell it Sisemore. The name is cognate with Cismor and other Portuguese surnames.
    is it Saxon, Suebi ancient invasion of iberia?
    .
    another ...hungarian surname Zizmer
    https://books.google.com.au/books?id...sigmar&f=false
    .
    .
    I only found that the sizemore surname are ydna T and Ydna Q
    A good portion are I-M253 and R-M269 as well https://www.familytreedna.com/public...frame=yresults

  23. #498
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,115

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huracan View Post
    Interesting update! I checked the FTDNA T group and saw that this Sizemore individual is only CTS11984+
    Henry william sizemore is the father of
    William Henry sizemore
    .
    Henry william sizemore is the Yfull and Ftdna person ..............yfull matched it first , then I received the match with ftdna
    .
    Initally, I was given the son as a match in Ftdna ................maybe the owner of the account updated his account ancestral trail

  24. #499
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
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    Australia
    Posts
    5,115

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Huracan View Post
    A good portion are I-M253 and R-M269 as well https://www.familytreedna.com/public...frame=yresults
    Two ftdna account kit numbers of the same person ...........the second one is a BigY test because it was presented to Yfull to analyse

  25. #500
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,115

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    1 members found this post helpful.
    T-CTS54
    .
    T-CTS54*
    id:YF06979USA [US-VA] ................<.Henry William Sizemore
    id:NA20758ITA
    .
    T-CTS8489
    id:ERS256892ITA [IT-CA]
    .
    T-CTS8489*
    T-Y17493
    id:YF04232
    id:YF04203USA [US-NC]
    .
    T-Z19945
    T-Z19945*
    id:YF07608ITA [IT-TV]

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