Questions on my Y-DNA Haplogroup T

**Huracan** · 16-11-20, 02:05

Was recently able to trace my paternal line to ~1700s in the Canary Islands, Spain. Updated my info on FTDNA. Based on oral histories and genealogies of other Fundora families, this was expected as the Canaries served as a notable source of Fundora's who migrated to Cuba or elsewhere. In trying to find the ultimate mainland source, people have told me Asturias in Northern Spain may be the origin place of the surname. Perhaps that is where my paternal line ultimately hails from...

So this officially links my CTS1848 line to Spain

**torzio** · 17-11-20, 18:44

Originally Posted by Huracan

Was recently able to trace my paternal line to ~1700s in the Canary Islands, Spain. Updated my info on FTDNA. Based on oral histories and genealogies of other Fundora families, this was expected as the Canaries served as a notable source of Fundora's who migrated to Cuba or elsewhere. In trying to find the ultimate mainland source, people have told me Asturias in Northern Spain may be the origin place of the surname. Perhaps that is where my paternal line ultimately hails from...

So this officially links my CTS1848 line to Spain

your marker does not appear to be

Ancient Canary Islanders (Guanches)

**Huracan** · 18-11-20, 02:07

Originally Posted by torzio

your marker does not appear to be

Ancient Canary Islanders (Guanches)

No, it definitely is not Guanche or native Canary Islander. It was most definitely introduced via Spanish colonization of the islands.

**torzio** · 11-12-20, 04:12

Another 2 x T1a that are distant matches to myself

Christian Burtscher

Francesco Antonio Onorato (1727 - 1806) Lucania, Italy

.................................................. .....................

others of T1a2 not linked to myself, but close for my snp

Carl August Zimmerling b.1834 from North-Tyrol

Hans Caspar Gräser; b1660 from Nosellari, Trento, Trentino-South Tyrol, Italy

**Salento** · 11-12-20, 05:17

Originally Posted by torzio

Another 2 x T1a that are distant matches to myself

Christian Burtscher

Francesco Antonio Onorato (1727 - 1806) Lucania, Italy

.................................................. .....................

others of T1a2 not linked to myself, but close for my snp

Carl August Zimmerling b.1834 from North-Tyrol

Hans Caspar Gräser; b1660 from Nosellari, Trento, Trentino-South Tyrol, Italy

There should be a few T1a2 (SK1480) in Lucania (Basilicata), ... some relatives fled there after WW2 (wrong side of history) until the Amnesty, ... the usual :)
one of them met his wife and had a family, he didn’t go back to Puglia, ...

**torzio** · 11-12-20, 06:40

Originally Posted by Salento

There should be a few T1a2 (SK1480) in Lucania (Basilicata), ... some relatives fled there after WW2 (wrong side of history) until the Amnesty, ... the usual :)
one of them met his wife and had a family, he didn’t go back to Puglia, ...

thanks

I got a message that the person came from Foggia or Molise

the surname comes from these 2 area

Biccari, Foggia, Italy
Alberona, Foggia, Italy

I was also given this as his parents

Vincenzo Onorato, Rachele Verdorato

Usually ato surname endings are Veneti....same as endings with lin, otto, acco and gher to name a few ...................not to say that Vincenzo was Veneto , because he seems complete foggian

**torzio** · 11-12-20, 23:12

Originally Posted by torzio

thanks

I got a message that the person came from Foggia or Molise

the surname comes from these 2 area

Biccari, Foggia, Italy
Alberona, Foggia, Italy

I was also given this as his parents

Vincenzo Onorato, Rachele Verdorato

Usually ato surname endings are Veneti....same as endings with lin, otto, acco and gher to name a few ...................not to say that Vincenzo was Veneto , because he seems complete foggian

had to recheck ...I was slightly wrong

my cousin, my wife on the border of veneti and friuli have endings of

t, and olo

then there is also lin endings
Guidolin
Santolin
Michielin .....................all after christian names , Michiel being Michele in venetian

**torzio** · 21-12-20, 18:21

new yfull matches

they have me confirm SK1480 , but Yfull do not use it
Known SNPs at this position:

SK1480

A

to

G

YB

I lost my notes on samples NA20758 ........it says TSI ( toscani ) but I think it is Apulia.....one of these below

TB9PE Benedetto Bari, Italy
13 22 13 10 13 13 11 12 11 14 13 30 16 8 9 11 12 26 15 19 33 11 11 15 16 10 12 23 24 16 13 18 17 34 34 13 9

YSU4S Da Lessio Salerno, Italy
13 22 13 10 13 13 11 12 11 14 13 30 16 9 9 11 12 27 15 19 35 11 11 15 16 10 11 23 25 16 13 19 16 34 34 14 9 12 11 15 11 8 17 17 8 11 10 8 12 11 20 20 17 10 12 12 15 8 26 21 11 12 14 10 11 12 11

**torzio** · 21-12-20, 18:31

Benedetto I know married a german woman

Da Lessio can also be Alessio as I have spoken to a woman who runs the line ............but I think the original surname was lessio

https://www.antenati-italiani.org/it/cognomi/8234-lessio

https://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-co...taliani/LESSIO

**Salento** · 21-12-20, 20:54

probably: ... D’Alesssio ... :)

Il mio ... :

**torzio** · 23-12-20, 00:55

the swedish one is the viking from circa 1050AD

**Salento** · 23-12-20, 03:36

... Stratford ... go by I-95 or nicer Merritt Parkway to get to New York

**torzio** · 24-12-20, 22:05

Originally Posted by Salento

... Stratford ... go by I-95 or nicer Merritt Parkway to get to New York

this one is the latest with the new updated snp

compare the last two

post 886 to post 883

**torzio** · 25-12-20, 17:58

A new yfull match for myself

James Carson b. 1765

England

YF13207

T-BY45377

hmm, Carson ......from the Good, the Bad and the Ugly film........did he hide the gold

**Huracan** · 28-12-20, 16:42

Originally Posted by torzio

Yfull has just given me a new branch under Z19945
with a Pole and an ancient trentino/South Tyrol sample
Because there are 3 different non family samples it has been accepted so it is
T - BY143483

@torzio, how do you know the ERS sample grouped with you and the Pole (Bartosiak) is from Trentino/South Tyrol? It only lists Cagliari, Sardinia as its origin

**torzio** · 28-12-20, 20:58

Originally Posted by Huracan

@torzio, how do you know the ERS sample grouped with you and the Pole (Bartosiak) is from Trentino/South Tyrol? It only lists Cagliari, Sardinia as its origin

I state that ERS is a sardinian who matches another sample in Trentino surname erspamer
https://www.italianames.com/italian-...-maps/ERSPAMER

The Pole is not from trentino.......we chat regularly on messenger, he states he is currently living in old prusi lands -.......old prussians near the baltic sea , east of Gdansk
He states his ancestors are thuringians

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuringia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Prussians

he is an engineer on a merchant boat , trading between Poland and Britain

**torzio** · 28-12-20, 21:06

183663

Erspamer

Giovanni ERSPAMER, b. 1704 (Malosco, Italy)

Italy

T-M70

this site is so crap in updating ones messages

**torzio** · 28-12-20, 23:10

http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~berta...72.html#I18790

I have a distant DNA connection with this line from link above

Erspamer, Giovanni Giuseppe (1826 - 1903) - male
b. 19 Mar 1826
d. 23 Sep 1903 in Fondo,Trento,Trentino,Italy
father: Erspamer, Giovanni (*1787 - >1835)
mother: Sartori, Marianna (1791 - 1875)
spouse: Pretol, Maria (1841 - 1887)

**Huracan** · 29-12-20, 01:49

Originally Posted by torzio

I state that ERS is a sardinian who matches another sample in Trentino surname erspamer
https://www.italianames.com/italian-...-maps/ERSPAMER

Thanks that is interesting.

So is the Erspamer individual (#183663) positive for your same SNP SK1480? or BY143483?

**torzio** · 29-12-20, 04:27

Originally Posted by Huracan

Thanks that is interesting.

So is the Erspamer individual (#183663) positive for your same SNP SK1480? or BY143483?

not sure .....more analysis needs to be done

he is a T1a2 -L446

check also the old swiss Ulrich , also T1a2

**torzio** · 03-01-21, 05:11

4 members of the group below match me in level 0 or 1 , others do not appear

more info below

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Hill-3101

**Huracan** · 03-01-21, 07:26

I used SAPP (https://www.jdvsite.com) to create a Y-STR tree of CTS11984/CTS54 to get an idea about origin and dispersal. I specified in my input the currently known positive and negative SNPs for each sample and the program did the rest. It is in high agreement with YFull dates and organization. The red annotations are predictions based on timing and the patterns I see. It suggests CTS11984 originated in Central Europe ≥3,000 ybp, suggesting a connection to the Bronze Age expansion of Indo-Europeans such as the Celts, Italics, Illyrians, etc.

CTS54 tree p1.jpg CTS54 root with CTS8489 and CTS8862

CTS54 tree p2.jpgFirst CTS54* branch: the UK individuals (Powell, etc.)

CTS54 tree p3.jpgCTS8862* and Y17493 branch (Knox, etc.)

CTS54 tree p4.jpg CTS1848 branch (those cut off are Pereira [Azores] on the left and two Bernot individuals at the bottom)

**Huracan** · 03-01-21, 07:34

Sorry about the poor image quality. Trying to see how to share a higher resolution one.

**torzio** · 03-01-21, 16:58

Originally Posted by Huracan

I used SAPP (https://www.jdvsite.com) to create a Y-STR tree of CTS11984/CTS54 to get an idea about origin and dispersal. I specified in my input the currently known positive and negative SNPs for each sample and the program did the rest. It is in high agreement with YFull dates and organization. The red annotations are predictions based on timing and the patterns I see. It suggests CTS11984 originated in Central Europe ≥3,000 ybp, suggesting a connection to the Bronze Age expansion of Indo-Europeans such as the Celts, Italics, Illyrians, etc.

Attachment 12509

attachment does not work for me.....it says, ask administrator

**Huracan** · 03-01-21, 18:12

CTS54 tree p5.jpg
Last part: the rest of Z19945 (not including CTS1848) showing BY143483, the Ashkenazi group (PAGES00113) and the Brooks/Curtiss group

Thread: Questions on my Y-DNA Haplogroup T

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