Questions on my Y-DNA Haplogroup T

Huracan · May 16, 2014

Sile said:
@fundora

My natgen 2 marker is CTS8862 , which is another step lower in the branch than your CTS11984

Oh turns out I am also CTS8862+, I would greatly appreciate the information and source regarding these sub-branches! I am getting excited!

Huracan · May 17, 2014

Sile said:
you stated you have T-CTS11984 which is downstream from L446 ( Its one of the 5 sub-branches of L446 ). Your branch is Tyrolese/Trentino/Grison group..........I do not know why you are thinking its Spanish. You ancestors most likely left for the new world in the mid 18th Century.

Sile, I recently found the 5 sub-branches you were talking about. This is interesting stuff! Currently on ysearch trying to investigate the genetic distance between me and other old T1b (L131+) members from FTDNA.

Sile · May 17, 2014

KFundora said:
View attachment 6435
Sile, I recently found the 5 sub-branches you were talking about. This is interesting stuff! Currently on ysearch trying to investigate the genetic distance between me and other old T1b (L131+) members from FTDNA.

As I mentioned in other T thread ...............ftdna are wrong in SNP - Pages00113 and L25

Pager00113 is in the L group
http://ybrowse.isogg.org/cgi-bin/gb...s=Sequence;feature_id=416;db_id=chrY:database

and L25 is in the J group

Pages00011 is correct in that it is T group .................but since you are CTS8862 , you will be negative for Pages00011 , UNLESS ftdna tree in that area is in error

Huracan · May 26, 2014

And @Sile, interesting news! Fundora instead may come from (di) Fondora, a surname that seems to emanate from Lucca in Tuscany and may have prior connections in Emilia-Romagna (I think Sorbano [now Sarsina or part of it] but I have yet to interpret the translations in full yet). The Fondoras were bankers, as was the prime business of Lucca, and had connections with nearby Genoa (Lucca is very close to Genoa/Liguria). They would have spread to Genoa or simply migrated in association with them to the Canary Islands in the 15th and 16th centuries and from there to Cuba. This makes my CTS8862 marker more in line with an Alpine origin of Northern Italy. Still working out everything and getting in touch with more Fundoras but this seems to be a promising theory regarding my ancestry.

Sile · May 26, 2014

KFundora said:
And @Sile, interesting news! Fundora instead may come from (di) Fondora, a surname that seems to emanate from Lucca in Tuscany and may have prior connections in Emilia-Romagna (I think Sorbano [now Sarsina or part of it] but I have yet to interpret the translations in full yet). The Fondoras were bankers, as was the prime business of Lucca, and had connections with nearby Genoa (Lucca is very close to Genoa/Liguria). They would have spread to Genoa or simply migrated in association with them to the Canary Islands in the 15th and 16th centuries and from there to Cuba. This makes my CTS8862 marker more in line with an Alpine origin of Northern Italy. Still working out everything and getting in touch with more Fundoras but this seems to be a promising theory regarding my ancestry.

I know Lucca as I have an aunt from my maternal side living there.

The genoese where the merchant bankers of the Crown of Spain during the renaissance. You should check spanish archives for genoese bankers in employment for Spain

only cts8862 in crimson colour which are also L446............the pink is only L446

In my opinion CTS8862 will be moved to a minor SNP marker and we will get L1322 or Pages00011 once its available for testing . These will be the only 2 lines coming out from L446+

FrankN · May 26, 2014

KFundora said:
Also, here is what I found from FTDNA based on those individuals who tested for L131 and L446:
Locations where T-L131+ (as per FTDNA):

Germany (Surname: Rauch)

The name "Rauch" may have several etymological origins:

Rauch = smoke, fume, indicating a profession that is associated with producing fume, e.g. metallurgy.
from "rau" = raw, rough. Thought to have designated people with "raw", i.e. scrubby appearance, or with rough manners.
possible Germanisation of ital. roca, fr. roche (rock), etc.

Here is the name distribution map according to German telephone register entries:

Source: http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/Hauptseite (a very useful site if you want to research on German genealogy, and can comprehend a bit of German).

Don't know if it really helps, but I thought I post it anyway, if only as food for thought.

Sile · May 26, 2014

FrankN said:
The name "Rauch" may have several etymological origins:

Rauch = smoke, fume, indicating a profession that is associated with producing fume, e.g. metallurgy.

from "rau" = raw, rough. Thought to have designated people with "raw", i.e. scrubby appearance, or with rough manners.

possible Germanisation of ital. roca, fr. roche (rock), etc.

Here is the name distribution map according to German telephone register entries:

View attachment 6447
Source: http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/Hauptseite (a very useful site if you want to research on German genealogy, and can comprehend a bit of German).

Don't know if it really helps, but I thought I post it anyway, if only as food for thought.

roca, rocca = tower ............as in a rook in chess
Rocca translated into English = fortress, rock, stronghold

rocce = rocks in Italian............sassi = stones

thanks for the link...Rauch a person who has minor links with me.........similar to the northern German named Kile

What does the map state?

I do have some genetic links with a town called Ravenstein .....IIRC the person who told me says its in Baden-Baden

Huracan · May 26, 2014

Sile, a recent discussion with a man, whose wife's four-times great grandmother was named Flora Fundora Y Abad, revealed that she was born in the Canary Islands and her family was from there and have been there for as long as anyone can remember but had originated in Spain. The wife's grandmother, Flora's granddaughter, said after asking around in Spain that Fundora means something along the lines of founder or foundry but do not know where exactly in Spain it comes from.

So now my question is, how would L446, let alone CTS11984 and CTS8862. would have made it into Spain?

Sile · May 26, 2014

KFundora said:
Sile, a recent discussion with a man, whose wife's four-times great grandmother was named Flora Fundora Y Abad, revealed that she was born in the Canary Islands and her family was from there and have been there for as long as anyone can remember but had originated in Spain. The wife's grandmother, Flora's granddaughter, said after asking around in Spain that Fundora means something along the lines of founder or foundry but do not know where exactly in Spain it comes from.

So now my question is, how would L446, let alone CTS11984 and CTS8862. would have made it into Spain?

I do not know about Spain as i cannot find any names similar to yours there, but in Italy

Antica famiglia lucchese, detta nel secolo XIII de' Bujoli, e chiamata poi dei Fondora dai luoghi di loro proprietà. Ebbe numerosi Anziani nella Repubblica dal secolo XIV al XVIII, e nel secolo XV alcuni maestri della zecca di Lucca. Il più noto della famiglia è Lazzaro de Fondora, dovizioso mercante, che fece erigere nel 1309 la chiesa di S. Maria e S. Francesco nei borghi della città, donandola ai Frati .... continua

From Lucca italy above, year from 1309..............Zecca = mint , where money is made

or

Le memorie di questa famiglia ricordano come capo stipite delle due linee, milanese, cioè, e veneto-dalmata, un Tommaso de Fondra che da Sigismondo imperatore con diploma datato a Milano, fu nel 1413 creato barone dell'impero. Si stabilì in Venezia sul principio del secolo XVI, ove un Lorenzo fu dal doge Pasquale Cicogna fatto conte palatino. Il primo di questa casa che si fermasse in Sebenico fu un Ferdinando cancelliere nel .... continua

Origin Milanese with links with Veneto and Dalmatia .

If you think they are bankers, check Spain archives

FrankN · May 26, 2014

Sile said:
What does the map state?

I do have some genetic links with a town called Ravenstein .....IIRC the person who told me says its in Baden-Baden

The map displays the relative frequency of the name among all telephone book entries. Geographical base unit is the county (German: Landkreis). The frequencies here are given as x per million (Rauch is a relatively rare name), the colouring goes from 10-155 occurrences per million (light orange) to more than 620 occurrences per million (dark red).

Ravenstein is in Baden-Würtemberg, approx. 90 km NNE of Stuttgart and 70 km SSW of Wurzburg. On the Rauch name frequency map, you will note a dark red county in south-central Germany (Main-Spessart County), surrounded by a few darker orange counties. If you go to the one directly south, and a bit beyond its SW corner, that's where Ravenstein is located.

Huracan · Jul 9, 2014

New Info

It's been a while since I last posted here but I have recently found out some interesting information.

I found out that my father's Y-STRs were tested and using the values for his 12 Y-STRs, I inputted them into Ysearch. I did not get back any 0 step matches or even 1 step matches. The closest genetic matches I got were two men: one with the surname Foster (earliest paternal ancestor from Germany) and the other Atwell (earliest paternal ancestor from Northumberland, England). They were 2 steps away from me, which FTDNA and Ysearch denote as "Probably Not Related." They go on to say that "you are unlikely to share a common male ancestor within the genealogical time frame." So does that mean we share a common male ancestor, just really long ago?

Using the patterns seen in between the generations to the MRCA for 25 and 37 STRs, I calculated that there is a 95% probability that I share a common male ancestor with them some 66 generations ago. I am not sure if the math of the whole system was predictable enough for me to go on to do that but I did it anyways. Afterwards, I then predicted that since the average age men have had children is roughly 20-25 years, that 66 generations ago is between 1,320 to 1,650 years ago (or 364-694 CE). I cannot accurately interpret what this means, for I have a tendency to go down a slippery slope of assumptions.

Also, the next closest matches (3 steps) were 5 individuals: 4 from the US (Frush, Atwell, Curtiss, Owens) and 1 German (Frush).

Furthermore, the individuals that have tested CTS8862+ from FTDNA and CTS11984+ were all 5-6 steps away from me (Pretotto, Knox, and Espinoza).

Sile · Jul 9, 2014

KFundora said:
It's been a while since I last posted here but I have recently found out some interesting information.

I found out that my father's Y-STRs were tested and using the values for his 12 Y-STRs, I inputted them into Ysearch. I did not get back any 0 step matches or even 1 step matches. The closest genetic matches I got were two men: one with the surname Foster (earliest paternal ancestor from Germany) and the other Atwell (earliest paternal ancestor from Northumberland, England). They were 2 steps away from me, which FTDNA and Ysearch denote as "Probably Not Related." They go on to say that "you are unlikely to share a common male ancestor within the genealogical time frame." So does that mean we share a common male ancestor, just really long ago?

Using the patterns seen in between the generations to the MRCA for 25 and 37 STRs, I calculated that there is a 95% probability that I share a common male ancestor with them some 66 generations ago. I am not sure if the math of the whole system was predictable enough for me to go on to do that but I did it anyways. Afterwards, I then predicted that since the average age men have had children is roughly 20-25 years, that 66 generations ago is between 1,320 to 1,650 years ago (or 364-694 CE). I cannot accurately interpret what this means, for I have a tendency to go down a slippery slope of assumptions.

Also, the next closest matches (3 steps) were 5 individuals: 4 from the US (Frush, Atwell, Curtiss, Owens) and 1 German (Frush).

Furthermore, the individuals that have tested CTS8862+ from FTDNA and CTS11984+ were all 5-6 steps away from me (Pretotto, Knox, and Espinoza).

Do you have a match with surname Dalessio, or D'Alessio or Lessio or Less......he is CTS8862 states he was from south Italy ( but surname does not indicate this) and being south italy was/must used by Spanish kings in overseas duties.
his ysearch is YSU4S

I am 5 steps from you with individuals Knox, Ahmann ( Prussia), Parker ( England) Mueller ( Bavaria) Foester ( salzburg Austria). I wrote to knox and they have no record before 1500 for their T person called MASON .
Mason appears 800 times in north Italy and is prounanced ( MAh ...zon ) , There are also hundreds of a Mazzon surname in north italy

Huracan · Jul 9, 2014

Hold on, these are the Y-STR results from Nat Geno 1.0 (which my father did):

DYS 393: 13
DYS19: 12
DYS 391: 10
DYS 439: 11
DYS 389i: 14
DYS 389ii: 16
DYS388: 12
DYS390: 22
DYS426: 11
DYS385a: 13
DYS385b: 16
DYS392: 13

When I was inputting them for the first time, I incorrectly converted DYS389i and DYS389ii using the Oxford Ancestors conversion because I couldn't find the original values in the drop-down menu. Now, going back, I realized that that didn't make any sense. I look on FTDNA and they said this:

"The second way is to show the result only for the second section that is tested by subtracting the DYS389-1 score from the original second test score. This is how the Genographic Project 1.0 test displayed the result. Some older publications also used this method.
As long as you know which method is being used, you can convert between the two. For example, you add together the two DYS389 values from the Genographic Project to get the DYS389-2 value for Family Tree DNA. To convert to m+n,p+q format, subtract the DYS389-1 value from DYS389-2 from your Family Tree DNA results. This is the DYS389-2 value for the Genographic Project and elsewhere."

I therefore added 14 and 16 to get 30, the FTDNA value for DYS389ii compatible with Ysearch.

Upon doing this, I got these results: (Note that the results are now overwhelming)

User ID	Pedigree	Last Name	Origin	Haplogroup	Tested With	Markers Compared	Genetic Distance
EH8QF		Frush	Maryland, USA	Unknown	Family Tree DNA	12	0
HD93F		Curtiss	Stratford, Fairfield,, USA	T1 (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	0
J96SK		Frush	Germany	Unknown	Family Tree DNA	12	0
X86AQ		Fundora	San Antonio de Río Blanco del Norte, La Habana, Cuba	T1b*	Genographic Project	12	0
Z4JWV		Foster	Germany	Unknown	Family Tree DNA	12	1
SBMFF		Micchia	Casignana, Reggio Calabria, Italy	T1 (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	1
SCYYM		Carvalho	Campos de Cunha - São Paulo, Brazil	T1*	Family Tree DNA	12	1
TWUU6		Vecchio	Italy	Unknown	Family Tree DNA	12	1
FKKA3	Show	Atwell	Northumberland, England	Unknown	Family Tree DNA	12	1
4BCTS		Bernard	Ireland	Unknown	Family Tree DNA	12	1
7JAQZ		Bauer	Unknown	T1 (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	1
7MYJH		Riva	Cagliari, Italy	Unknown	Other - SMGF	12	2
7S3PX		Bulgakov	Mordvinien, Russia	T1b (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
7W8GR		Martin	Unknown	Unknown	Family Tree DNA	12	2
84P6X		Pivovitz	Tykocin, Poland	T1*	Family Tree DNA	12	2
85S98		Knox	Strabane, Northern Ireland	T1b (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
8P6P5		Groen	Netherlands	Unknown	Family Tree DNA	12	2
8TTV3		McKinley	Unknown	Unknown	Family Tree DNA	12	2
9FQV7		Tulupov	Kursk region, Russia	T1*	Family Tree DNA	12	2
9U5RZ		Luddington	New York, USA	Unknown	Family Tree DNA	12	2
9Z3Q4		Knox	Pitt County, North Carolina, USA	T1 (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
B7EPU	Show	Ahmann	Lienen, Preußen/Prussia, Germany	T1 (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
BMV54		Epstein	Bobruisk, Belarus	T1 (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
C2URV		Vavilov	Morshansk, Russia	T1b (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
4J56P		Anonymous Brazilian	Brazil	T1b*	Other - SMGF	12	2
5MVDN		Hill	Darlington, South Carolina, USA	T1 (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
75W9X		Hill	Tennessee, USA	T1 (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
27V79		Fakes	Unknown	T1 (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
2WQH4		Hill	Tennessee, USA	T1 (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
3FURP		Lazar	Unknown	Unknown	Family Tree DNA	12	2
FMW5U	Show	Blarer C/o Phytax Gmbh	St. Gallen, Switzerland	T1b (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
FZ3K4		Dean	Unknown	Unknown	Family Tree DNA	12	2
G8NSN		Guerra	Ecuador	Unknown	Family Tree DNA	12	2
GFXYD		Cleveland, Cleaveland	Unknown	Unknown	Family Tree DNA	12	2
GNY7X		Hohenfeld	Tolkmicko, Poland	T1 (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
GH8YR		Atwell	Virginia, USA	T1 (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
DFEA3	Show	Liss	Kartuz Bereza, Belarus	T1 (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
DG4TT		Milligan	North Carolina, USA	T1 (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
HVVYW		Madrigal	madrid, Spain	T1 (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
JRWTZ		Lippi	Arezzo, Italy	Unknown	Other - SMGF	12	2
K3JXB		Carson	Unknown	T1 (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
nrwwc		Mason	West Palm Beach Florida, USA	T1 (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
NUUFC		Espinoza	Callao, Peru	T1b (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
P9K39		Murphy	Unknown	Unknown	Family Tree DNA	12	2
PC6W3		Velasco	Puerto Rico	T1 (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
PTD7V		Carver	Krzepice, Poland	Unknown	Family Tree DNA	12	2
T8WMY		Russo	Camposano, Province of Naples, Italy	T1 (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
SJ4CJ	Show	Hill	Unknown	Unknown	Family Tree DNA	12	2
SYJCU		Fauth	Rastatt, Alsace/Elsaß, Germany	Unknown	Family Tree DNA	12	2
R3MRH		Black	Ireland	Unknown	Genographic Project	12	2
RK58S		Hill	Packsville (Paxville), USA	T1 (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
YUQVH		Teaford	Nancy, Alsace-Lorraine/Elsass-Lothringen, France	T1b (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
XYSQ3		Alvarado	Spain	T1b (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
Y4B44		Mitchell	North Carolina, USA	T1 (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
WAERQ		Owens	Henry County, USA	T1 (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
WJRFG		Pivovitz	Tykocin, Poland	T1 (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2

Can you assist me in understanding these? I only showed up to the 2 steps because the list was extremely long

Huracan · Jul 9, 2014

This was just using the genetic matches option for all haplogroups. This is what I got when I tested within our haplogroup (the most exact I could get was T1b):

User ID	Pedigree	Last Name	Origin	Haplogroup	Tested With	Markers Compared	Genetic Distance
X86AQ		Fundora	San Antonio de Río Blanco del Norte, La Habana, Cuba	T1b*	Genographic Project	12	0
4J56P		Anonymous Brazilian	Brazil	T1b*	Other - SMGF	12	2
YUQVH		Teaford	Nancy, Alsace-Lorraine/Elsass-Lothringen, France	T1b (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
7S3PX		Bulgakov	Mordvinien, Russia	T1b (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
C2URV		Vavilov	Morshansk, Russia	T1b (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
XYSQ3		Alvarado	Spain	T1b (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
FMW5U	Show	Blarer C/o Phytax Gmbh	St. Gallen, Switzerland	T1b (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
85S98		Knox	Strabane, Northern Ireland	T1b (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
NUUFC		Espinoza	Callao, Peru	T1b (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	2
U7KWS		Gyorgy	Istensegits, Bukowina, Transylvania, Romania	T1b (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	3
SBN6R		Rappleye	Unknown	T1b (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	3
X43UQ		pretotto	Treviso, Italy	T1b (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	3
3D7EU		Wingate	London, England	T1b*	Oxford Ancestors	12	3
GCX5C		La Rochelle	La Rochelle, France	T1b (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	3
23U9K		Parker	England	T1b (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	4
3QECG		Hulpiau	Belgium	T1b (tested)	Family Tree DNA	12	6

Sile · Jul 10, 2014

KFundora said:
Hold on, these are the Y-STR results from Nat Geno 1.0 (which my father did):

DYS 393: 13
DYS19: 12
DYS 391: 10
DYS 439: 11
DYS 389i: 14
DYS 389ii: 16
DYS388: 12
DYS390: 22
DYS426: 11
DYS385a: 13
DYS385b: 16
DYS392: 13

When I was inputting them for the first time, I incorrectly converted DYS389i and DYS389ii using the Oxford Ancestors conversion because I couldn't find the original values in the drop-down menu. Now, going back, I realized that that didn't make any sense. I look on FTDNA and they said this:

"The second way is to show the result only for the second section that is tested by subtracting the DYS389-1 score from the original second test score. This is how the Genographic Project 1.0 test displayed the result. Some older publications also used this method.
As long as you know which method is being used, you can convert between the two. For example, you add together the two DYS389 values from the Genographic Project to get the DYS389-2 value for Family Tree DNA. To convert to m+n,p+q format, subtract the DYS389-1 value from DYS389-2 from your Family Tree DNA results. This is the DYS389-2 value for the Genographic Project and elsewhere."

I therefore added 14 and 16 to get 30, the FTDNA value for DYS389ii compatible with Ysearch.

Upon doing this, I got these results: (Note that the results are now overwhelming)

Compare User ID Pedigree Last Name Origin Haplogroup Tested With Markers Compared Genetic Distance
EH8QF Frush Maryland, USA Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 0
HD93F Curtiss Stratford, Fairfield,, USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 0
J96SK Frush Germany Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 0
X86AQ Fundora San Antonio de Río Blanco del Norte, La Habana, Cuba T1b* Genographic Project 12 0
Z4JWV Foster Germany Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 1
SBMFF Micchia Casignana, Reggio Calabria, Italy T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 1
SCYYM Carvalho Campos de Cunha - São Paulo, Brazil T1* Family Tree DNA 12 1
TWUU6 Vecchio Italy Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 1
FKKA3 Show Atwell Northumberland, England Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 1
4BCTS Bernard Ireland Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 1
7JAQZ Bauer Unknown T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 1
7MYJH Riva Cagliari, Italy Unknown Other - SMGF 12 2
7S3PX Bulgakov Mordvinien, Russia T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
7W8GR Martin Unknown Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
84P6X Pivovitz Tykocin, Poland T1* Family Tree DNA 12 2
85S98 Knox Strabane, Northern Ireland T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
8P6P5 Groen Netherlands Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
8TTV3 McKinley Unknown Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
9FQV7 Tulupov Kursk region, Russia T1* Family Tree DNA 12 2
9U5RZ Luddington New York, USA Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
9Z3Q4 Knox Pitt County, North Carolina, USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
B7EPU Show Ahmann Lienen, Preußen/Prussia, Germany T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
BMV54 Epstein Bobruisk, Belarus T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
C2URV Vavilov Morshansk, Russia T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
4J56P Anonymous Brazilian Brazil T1b* Other - SMGF 12 2
5MVDN Hill Darlington, South Carolina, USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
75W9X Hill Tennessee, USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
27V79 Fakes Unknown T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
2WQH4 Hill Tennessee, USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
3FURP Lazar Unknown Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
FMW5U Show Blarer C/o Phytax Gmbh St. Gallen, Switzerland T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
FZ3K4 Dean Unknown Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
G8NSN Guerra Ecuador Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
GFXYD Cleveland, Cleaveland Unknown Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
GNY7X Hohenfeld Tolkmicko, Poland T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
GH8YR Atwell Virginia, USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
DFEA3 Show Liss Kartuz Bereza, Belarus T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
DG4TT Milligan North Carolina, USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
HVVYW Madrigal madrid, Spain T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
JRWTZ Lippi Arezzo, Italy Unknown Other - SMGF 12 2
K3JXB Carson Unknown T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
nrwwc Mason West Palm Beach Florida, USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
NUUFC Espinoza Callao, Peru T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
P9K39 Murphy Unknown Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
PC6W3 Velasco Puerto Rico T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
PTD7V Carver Krzepice, Poland Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
T8WMY Russo Camposano, Province of Naples, Italy T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
SJ4CJ Show Hill Unknown Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
SYJCU Fauth Rastatt, Alsace/Elsaß, Germany Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
R3MRH Black Ireland Unknown Genographic Project 12 2
RK58S Hill Packsville (Paxville), USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
YUQVH Teaford Nancy, Alsace-Lorraine/Elsass-Lothringen, France T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
XYSQ3 Alvarado Spain T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
Y4B44 Mitchell North Carolina, USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
WAERQ Owens Henry County, USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
WJRFG Pivovitz Tykocin, Poland T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2

Can you assist me in understanding these? I only showed up to the 2 steps because the list was extremely long

I suggest you do what I did, join this site below, its free ( unless you want to go to extreme searches ), it only covers family trees ( not genetics), but it will lead to genetics via other sites IF you establish your surnames
http://en.geneanet.org/

I joined, 6 months ago, I got fortnightly emails to see If I match surnames which where on my tree and also in others trees and have just satrted matching people who are in my tree with the same people who are on genetic sites

just got this about a month ago (see below) the gaspar guy is my line

follow what I did , it will remove the clutter of all these names so you may focus on your true line.

BTW on your list
Russo is a Greek jew from the aegean islands
Lippi and Carson are from Lombardia
Hohenfeld is from old east-prussia
Hill is scottish , settled in southCarolina about 1700

I do not know the rest apart from knox and Mason

Sile · Jul 11, 2014

FrankN said:
The name "Rauch" may have several etymological origins:

Rauch = smoke, fume, indicating a profession that is associated with producing fume, e.g. metallurgy.

from "rau" = raw, rough. Thought to have designated people with "raw", i.e. scrubby appearance, or with rough manners.

possible Germanisation of ital. roca, fr. roche (rock), etc.

Here is the name distribution map according to German telephone register entries:

View attachment 6447
Source: http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/Hauptseite (a very useful site if you want to research on German genealogy, and can comprehend a bit of German).

Don't know if it really helps, but I thought I post it anyway, if only as food for thought.

Do you know where the german name SCHALES comes from?

Sile · Jul 11, 2014

KFundora said:
It's been a while since I last posted here but I have recently found out some interesting information.

I found out that my father's Y-STRs were tested and using the values for his 12 Y-STRs, I inputted them into Ysearch. I did not get back any 0 step matches or even 1 step matches. The closest genetic matches I got were two men: one with the surname Foster (earliest paternal ancestor from Germany) and the other Atwell (earliest paternal ancestor from Northumberland, England). They were 2 steps away from me, which FTDNA and Ysearch denote as "Probably Not Related." They go on to say that "you are unlikely to share a common male ancestor within the genealogical time frame." So does that mean we share a common male ancestor, just really long ago?

Using the patterns seen in between the generations to the MRCA for 25 and 37 STRs, I calculated that there is a 95% probability that I share a common male ancestor with them some 66 generations ago. I am not sure if the math of the whole system was predictable enough for me to go on to do that but I did it anyways. Afterwards, I then predicted that since the average age men have had children is roughly 20-25 years, that 66 generations ago is between 1,320 to 1,650 years ago (or 364-694 CE). I cannot accurately interpret what this means, for I have a tendency to go down a slippery slope of assumptions.

Also, the next closest matches (3 steps) were 5 individuals: 4 from the US (Frush, Atwell, Curtiss, Owens) and 1 German (Frush).

Furthermore, the individuals that have tested CTS8862+ from FTDNA and CTS11984+ were all 5-6 steps away from me (Pretotto, Knox, and Espinoza).

We have now been placed together in ftdna T project.............can you confirm further back for your family line?

other CTS8862 are now Da Lessio ( 15 generic distance from me ), Schales ( ysearch 4MNH3, 1 GD from me ) ,

I also think we have a very good match with the swiss person ( ysearch 7JAQZ, 2 GD from me) from the 13th century, and also the slovene, Mozenic , 2 GD from me ( mozen means coins ( of various values) in venetian ), but I doubt he will go for a further test beyond 12 marker

Huracan · Jul 12, 2014

I just saw! How intriguing! We're exact matches! That was with just 12 Y-STRs, as my Y-DNA 37 has yet to come in.

And unfortunately, no we still cannot go further back then Cuba with our paternal line

We've been placed together in the Gamma 1-X T-CTS8862 Unmatched on the Haplogroup T Project STR Results page. I have to continue research and will get back to with you.

Sile · Jul 12, 2014

KFundora said:
I just saw! How intriguing! We're exact matches! That was with just 12 Y-STRs, as my Y-DNA 37 has yet to come in.

And unfortunately, no we still cannot go further back then Cuba with our paternal line

We've been placed together in the Gamma 1-X T-CTS8862 Unmatched on the Haplogroup T Project STR Results page. I have to continue research and will get back to with you.

found this line from Lombardy Italy...........they sent a family line to the greek islands held by Italy after the 1911-1912 Turco-italian war.
Do you see any in regards to matches
FONDRA

Display by:

line (5)

alphabetical order

1.o Alfonso2.
o Eugénia & Mario Pierre Isidore SUMMA 1910-19733.
o Giovanna4.
oInnocenzo & Teresa VENINI
oFerdinando ca 1826-1888 & ? ?
o Alfredo 1866-1895
oGiovanni1829-1908 & Luisa Ou Luigia BORETTI 1845-1923
o Enrico 1864-
oJoachim (Giovacchino) 1865-1926 & Argyro CARIDHIA
o Giovanni1894-1894
oLuisa 1895-1921
o Elfrida Anna 1896- &1922 Antonio PREDONZAN ...
o Elena Anna Cristina 1897-1897
oArturo 1898-1971 &1924 Giovanna PREDONZAN
oElvira Luisa
oJoachim (Giovacchino) 1865-1926 &1918 Maria PIROLOVOS
o Ettore1903-1924
oEugenia1905- &1925 Guy FIOROVICH
oGiovanni1908- &1935 Maria FRAGIACOMO
o Adolfo 1867-1924 &1893 Teresa FILINESI 1872- 5.
o Teresa

in cuba
this is the oldest line 1847

genovapete1969

1

FUNDORA

1847 - 1847

San Antonio de Los Banos

Cuba

o Rosario

owner of line is Peter Genova .....city is San Antonio de Los Banos

red print is Fundora or Fondra person

Sile · Jul 12, 2014

99% of all Fondera are french from:

[h=2]

Joan FONDERA[/h] Titles: pagès

Born about 1600 - Millas,66170,Pyrénées-Orientales,Languedoc-Roussillon,FRANCE
Deceased

[h=2]Spouses and children[/h]

Married to Maria BURCH with
- Joseph FONDERA ca 1630-/1668
- Maria FONDERA ca 1633-


about 1600 :	Birth - Millas,66170,Pyrénées-Orientales,Languedoc-Roussillon,FRANCE
20 February 1657 :	Will - Millas,66170,Pyrénées-Orientales,Languedoc-Roussillon,FRANCE Notaire : Montbolo Miquel son fils Joseph, chirurgien (qui ne réapparait plus ensuite), ses filles Monserrada, Géronima, Anna (qui n'apparaît plus dans les testaments suivants) et Maria épouse Burch (1er mariage) Sources: relevés de l'association - A.C.G. - Other - moi-même - Other
23 December 1668 :	Will - Millas,66170,Pyrénées-Orientales,Languedoc-Roussillon,FRANCE Notaire : Montbolo Miquel Ce testament sera remplacé par celui de 1676. Il énonce le nom des 2 premières épouses et par contre attribue à la seconde Boher, Monserrada (Maria) 3 enfants Isabel, Thérèse et Jaume, qui vont ensuite être replacée sous la 3eme épouse Joana." Sources: relevés de l'association - A.C.G. - Other - moi-même - Other
8 September 1676 :	Will - Millas,66170,Pyrénées-Orientales,Languedoc-Roussillon,FRANCE notaire : Amill Hieronim nouveau testament : Joana est sa 3eme épouse et la mère de ses enfants Thérèse, Isabel épouse Cubri, Jaume 14 ans, Géronima épouse de Sylvestre Palegri. (Il y a un hiatus avec le testament de 1668 où Thérèse, Isabel et Jaume sont indiqués enfants de Maria Boher 2eme épouse). Lors des mariages de ces enfants, leurs mères est bien Joana. Sa 1ere épouse Maria (Burch) était la mère de Maria épouse de Côme Burch, sa seconde épouse Maria ? était la mère de Monserrada épouse de Miquel BOHER

Questions on my Y-DNA Haplogroup T

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