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Thread: Questions on my Y-DNA Haplogroup T

  1. #51
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T-CTS1848
    MtDNA haplogroup
    L3e2b

    Ethnic group
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    Country: United States



    New Info

    It's been a while since I last posted here but I have recently found out some interesting information.

    I found out that my father's Y-STRs were tested and using the values for his 12 Y-STRs, I inputted them into Ysearch. I did not get back any 0 step matches or even 1 step matches. The closest genetic matches I got were two men: one with the surname Foster (earliest paternal ancestor from Germany) and the other Atwell (earliest paternal ancestor from Northumberland, England). They were 2 steps away from me, which FTDNA and Ysearch denote as "Probably Not Related." They go on to say that "you are unlikely to share a common male ancestor within the genealogical time frame." So does that mean we share a common male ancestor, just really long ago?

    Using the patterns seen in between the generations to the MRCA for 25 and 37 STRs, I calculated that there is a 95% probability that I share a common male ancestor with them some 66 generations ago. I am not sure if the math of the whole system was predictable enough for me to go on to do that but I did it anyways. Afterwards, I then predicted that since the average age men have had children is roughly 20-25 years, that 66 generations ago is between 1,320 to 1,650 years ago (or 364-694 CE). I cannot accurately interpret what this means, for I have a tendency to go down a slippery slope of assumptions.

    Also, the next closest matches (3 steps) were 5 individuals: 4 from the US (Frush, Atwell, Curtiss, Owens) and 1 German (Frush).

    Furthermore, the individuals that have tested CTS8862+ from FTDNA and CTS11984+ were all 5-6 steps away from me (Pretotto, Knox, and Espinoza).

  2. #52
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

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    North Alpine Italian
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    Quote Originally Posted by KFundora View Post
    It's been a while since I last posted here but I have recently found out some interesting information.

    I found out that my father's Y-STRs were tested and using the values for his 12 Y-STRs, I inputted them into Ysearch. I did not get back any 0 step matches or even 1 step matches. The closest genetic matches I got were two men: one with the surname Foster (earliest paternal ancestor from Germany) and the other Atwell (earliest paternal ancestor from Northumberland, England). They were 2 steps away from me, which FTDNA and Ysearch denote as "Probably Not Related." They go on to say that "you are unlikely to share a common male ancestor within the genealogical time frame." So does that mean we share a common male ancestor, just really long ago?

    Using the patterns seen in between the generations to the MRCA for 25 and 37 STRs, I calculated that there is a 95% probability that I share a common male ancestor with them some 66 generations ago. I am not sure if the math of the whole system was predictable enough for me to go on to do that but I did it anyways. Afterwards, I then predicted that since the average age men have had children is roughly 20-25 years, that 66 generations ago is between 1,320 to 1,650 years ago (or 364-694 CE). I cannot accurately interpret what this means, for I have a tendency to go down a slippery slope of assumptions.

    Also, the next closest matches (3 steps) were 5 individuals: 4 from the US (Frush, Atwell, Curtiss, Owens) and 1 German (Frush).

    Furthermore, the individuals that have tested CTS8862+ from FTDNA and CTS11984+ were all 5-6 steps away from me (Pretotto, Knox, and Espinoza).
    Do you have a match with surname Dalessio, or D'Alessio or Lessio or Less......he is CTS8862 states he was from south Italy ( but surname does not indicate this) and being south italy was/must used by Spanish kings in overseas duties.
    his ysearch is YSU4S

    I am 5 steps from you with individuals Knox, Ahmann ( Prussia), Parker ( England) Mueller ( Bavaria) Foester ( salzburg Austria). I wrote to knox and they have no record before 1500 for their T person called MASON .
    Mason appears 800 times in north Italy and is prounanced ( MAh ...zon ) , There are also hundreds of a Mazzon surname in north italy
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

  3. #53
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T-CTS1848
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    Hold on, these are the Y-STR results from Nat Geno 1.0 (which my father did):

    DYS 393: 13
    DYS19: 12
    DYS 391: 10
    DYS 439: 11
    DYS 389i: 14
    DYS 389ii: 16
    DYS388: 12
    DYS390: 22
    DYS426: 11
    DYS385a: 13
    DYS385b: 16
    DYS392: 13

    When I was inputting them for the first time, I incorrectly converted DYS389i and DYS389ii using the Oxford Ancestors conversion because I couldn't find the original values in the drop-down menu. Now, going back, I realized that that didn't make any sense. I look on FTDNA and they said this:

    "The second way is to show the result only for the second section that is tested by subtracting the DYS389-1 score from the original second test score. This is how the Genographic Project 1.0 test displayed the result. Some older publications also used this method.
    As long as you know which method is being used, you can convert between the two. For example, you add together the two DYS389 values from the Genographic Project to get the DYS389-2 value for Family Tree DNA. To convert to m+n,p+q format, subtract the DYS389-1 value from DYS389-2 from your Family Tree DNA results. This is the DYS389-2 value for the Genographic Project and elsewhere."

    I therefore added 14 and 16 to get 30, the FTDNA value for DYS389ii compatible with Ysearch.

    Upon doing this, I got these results: (Note that the results are now overwhelming)



    Compare User ID Pedigree Last Name Origin Haplogroup Tested With Markers Compared Genetic Distance
    EH8QF Frush Maryland, USA Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 0
    HD93F Curtiss Stratford, Fairfield,, USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 0
    J96SK Frush Germany Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 0
    X86AQ Fundora San Antonio de Río Blanco del Norte, La Habana, Cuba T1b* Genographic Project 12 0
    Z4JWV Foster Germany Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 1
    SBMFF Micchia Casignana, Reggio Calabria, Italy T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 1
    SCYYM Carvalho Campos de Cunha - São Paulo, Brazil T1* Family Tree DNA 12 1
    TWUU6 Vecchio Italy Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 1
    FKKA3 Show Atwell Northumberland, England Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 1
    4BCTS Bernard Ireland Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 1
    7JAQZ Bauer Unknown T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 1
    7MYJH Riva Cagliari, Italy Unknown Other - SMGF 12 2
    7S3PX Bulgakov Mordvinien, Russia T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    7W8GR Martin Unknown Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
    84P6X Pivovitz Tykocin, Poland T1* Family Tree DNA 12 2
    85S98 Knox Strabane, Northern Ireland T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    8P6P5 Groen Netherlands Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
    8TTV3 McKinley Unknown Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
    9FQV7 Tulupov Kursk region, Russia T1* Family Tree DNA 12 2
    9U5RZ Luddington New York, USA Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
    9Z3Q4 Knox Pitt County, North Carolina, USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    B7EPU Show Ahmann Lienen, Preußen/Prussia, Germany T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    BMV54 Epstein Bobruisk, Belarus T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    C2URV Vavilov Morshansk, Russia T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    4J56P Anonymous Brazilian Brazil T1b* Other - SMGF 12 2
    5MVDN Hill Darlington, South Carolina, USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    75W9X Hill Tennessee, USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    27V79 Fakes Unknown T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    2WQH4 Hill Tennessee, USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    3FURP Lazar Unknown Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
    FMW5U Show Blarer C/o Phytax Gmbh St. Gallen, Switzerland T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    FZ3K4 Dean Unknown Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
    G8NSN Guerra Ecuador Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
    GFXYD Cleveland, Cleaveland Unknown Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
    GNY7X Hohenfeld Tolkmicko, Poland T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    GH8YR Atwell Virginia, USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    DFEA3 Show Liss Kartuz Bereza, Belarus T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    DG4TT Milligan North Carolina, USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    HVVYW Madrigal madrid, Spain T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    JRWTZ Lippi Arezzo, Italy Unknown Other - SMGF 12 2
    K3JXB Carson Unknown T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    nrwwc Mason West Palm Beach Florida, USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    NUUFC Espinoza Callao, Peru T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    P9K39 Murphy Unknown Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
    PC6W3 Velasco Puerto Rico T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    PTD7V Carver Krzepice, Poland Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
    T8WMY Russo Camposano, Province of Naples, Italy T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    SJ4CJ Show Hill Unknown Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
    SYJCU Fauth Rastatt, Alsace/Elsaß, Germany Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
    R3MRH Black Ireland Unknown Genographic Project 12 2
    RK58S Hill Packsville (Paxville), USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    YUQVH Teaford Nancy, Alsace-Lorraine/Elsass-Lothringen, France T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    XYSQ3 Alvarado Spain T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    Y4B44 Mitchell North Carolina, USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    WAERQ Owens Henry County, USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    WJRFG Pivovitz Tykocin, Poland T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2


    Can you assist me in understanding these? I only showed up to the 2 steps because the list was extremely​ long

  4. #54
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    This was just using the genetic matches option for all haplogroups. This is what I got when I tested within our haplogroup (the most exact I could get was T1b):


    Compare User ID Pedigree Last Name Origin Haplogroup Tested With Markers Compared Genetic Distance
    X86AQ Fundora San Antonio de Río Blanco del Norte, La Habana, Cuba T1b* Genographic Project 12 0
    4J56P Anonymous Brazilian Brazil T1b* Other - SMGF 12 2
    YUQVH Teaford Nancy, Alsace-Lorraine/Elsass-Lothringen, France T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    7S3PX Bulgakov Mordvinien, Russia T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    C2URV Vavilov Morshansk, Russia T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    XYSQ3 Alvarado Spain T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    FMW5U Show Blarer C/o Phytax Gmbh St. Gallen, Switzerland T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    85S98 Knox Strabane, Northern Ireland T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    NUUFC Espinoza Callao, Peru T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    U7KWS Gyorgy Istensegits, Bukowina, Transylvania, Romania T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 3
    SBN6R Rappleye Unknown T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 3
    X43UQ pretotto Treviso, Italy T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 3
    3D7EU Wingate London, England T1b* Oxford Ancestors 12 3
    GCX5C La Rochelle La Rochelle, France T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 3
    23U9K Parker England T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 4
    3QECG Hulpiau Belgium T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 6

  5. #55
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
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    Quote Originally Posted by KFundora View Post
    Hold on, these are the Y-STR results from Nat Geno 1.0 (which my father did):

    DYS 393: 13
    DYS19: 12
    DYS 391: 10
    DYS 439: 11
    DYS 389i: 14
    DYS 389ii: 16
    DYS388: 12
    DYS390: 22
    DYS426: 11
    DYS385a: 13
    DYS385b: 16
    DYS392: 13

    When I was inputting them for the first time, I incorrectly converted DYS389i and DYS389ii using the Oxford Ancestors conversion because I couldn't find the original values in the drop-down menu. Now, going back, I realized that that didn't make any sense. I look on FTDNA and they said this:

    "The second way is to show the result only for the second section that is tested by subtracting the DYS389-1 score from the original second test score. This is how the Genographic Project 1.0 test displayed the result. Some older publications also used this method.
    As long as you know which method is being used, you can convert between the two. For example, you add together the two DYS389 values from the Genographic Project to get the DYS389-2 value for Family Tree DNA. To convert to m+n,p+q format, subtract the DYS389-1 value from DYS389-2 from your Family Tree DNA results. This is the DYS389-2 value for the Genographic Project and elsewhere."

    I therefore added 14 and 16 to get 30, the FTDNA value for DYS389ii compatible with Ysearch.

    Upon doing this, I got these results: (Note that the results are now overwhelming)



    Compare User ID Pedigree Last Name Origin Haplogroup Tested With Markers Compared Genetic Distance
    EH8QF Frush Maryland, USA Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 0
    HD93F Curtiss Stratford, Fairfield,, USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 0
    J96SK Frush Germany Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 0
    X86AQ Fundora San Antonio de Río Blanco del Norte, La Habana, Cuba T1b* Genographic Project 12 0
    Z4JWV Foster Germany Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 1
    SBMFF Micchia Casignana, Reggio Calabria, Italy T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 1
    SCYYM Carvalho Campos de Cunha - São Paulo, Brazil T1* Family Tree DNA 12 1
    TWUU6 Vecchio Italy Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 1
    FKKA3 Show Atwell Northumberland, England Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 1
    4BCTS Bernard Ireland Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 1
    7JAQZ Bauer Unknown T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 1
    7MYJH Riva Cagliari, Italy Unknown Other - SMGF 12 2
    7S3PX Bulgakov Mordvinien, Russia T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    7W8GR Martin Unknown Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
    84P6X Pivovitz Tykocin, Poland T1* Family Tree DNA 12 2
    85S98 Knox Strabane, Northern Ireland T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    8P6P5 Groen Netherlands Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
    8TTV3 McKinley Unknown Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
    9FQV7 Tulupov Kursk region, Russia T1* Family Tree DNA 12 2
    9U5RZ Luddington New York, USA Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
    9Z3Q4 Knox Pitt County, North Carolina, USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    B7EPU Show Ahmann Lienen, Preußen/Prussia, Germany T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    BMV54 Epstein Bobruisk, Belarus T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    C2URV Vavilov Morshansk, Russia T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    4J56P Anonymous Brazilian Brazil T1b* Other - SMGF 12 2
    5MVDN Hill Darlington, South Carolina, USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    75W9X Hill Tennessee, USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    27V79 Fakes Unknown T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    2WQH4 Hill Tennessee, USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    3FURP Lazar Unknown Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
    FMW5U Show Blarer C/o Phytax Gmbh St. Gallen, Switzerland T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    FZ3K4 Dean Unknown Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
    G8NSN Guerra Ecuador Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
    GFXYD Cleveland, Cleaveland Unknown Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
    GNY7X Hohenfeld Tolkmicko, Poland T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    GH8YR Atwell Virginia, USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    DFEA3 Show Liss Kartuz Bereza, Belarus T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    DG4TT Milligan North Carolina, USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    HVVYW Madrigal madrid, Spain T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    JRWTZ Lippi Arezzo, Italy Unknown Other - SMGF 12 2
    K3JXB Carson Unknown T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    nrwwc Mason West Palm Beach Florida, USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    NUUFC Espinoza Callao, Peru T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    P9K39 Murphy Unknown Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
    PC6W3 Velasco Puerto Rico T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    PTD7V Carver Krzepice, Poland Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
    T8WMY Russo Camposano, Province of Naples, Italy T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    SJ4CJ Show Hill Unknown Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
    SYJCU Fauth Rastatt, Alsace/Elsaß, Germany Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 2
    R3MRH Black Ireland Unknown Genographic Project 12 2
    RK58S Hill Packsville (Paxville), USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    YUQVH Teaford Nancy, Alsace-Lorraine/Elsass-Lothringen, France T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    XYSQ3 Alvarado Spain T1b (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    Y4B44 Mitchell North Carolina, USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    WAERQ Owens Henry County, USA T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2
    WJRFG Pivovitz Tykocin, Poland T1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 2


    Can you assist me in understanding these? I only showed up to the 2 steps because the list was extremely​ long
    I suggest you do what I did, join this site below, its free ( unless you want to go to extreme searches ), it only covers family trees ( not genetics), but it will lead to genetics via other sites IF you establish your surnames
    http://en.geneanet.org/

    I joined, 6 months ago, I got fortnightly emails to see If I match surnames which where on my tree and also in others trees and have just satrted matching people who are in my tree with the same people who are on genetic sites

    just got this about a month ago (see below) the gaspar guy is my line



    follow what I did , it will remove the clutter of all these names so you may focus on your true line.

    BTW on your list
    Russo is a Greek jew from the aegean islands
    Lippi and Carson are from Lombardia
    Hohenfeld is from old east-prussia
    Hill is scottish , settled in southCarolina about 1700

    I do not know the rest apart from knox and Mason

  6. #56
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    H95a1 ..Pannoni

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankN View Post
    The name "Rauch" may have several etymological origins:

    1. Rauch = smoke, fume, indicating a profession that is associated with producing fume, e.g. metallurgy.
    2. from "rau" = raw, rough. Thought to have designated people with "raw", i.e. scrubby appearance, or with rough manners.
    3. possible Germanisation of ital. roca, fr. roche (rock), etc.

    Here is the name distribution map according to German telephone register entries:

    Attachment 6447
    Source: http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/Hauptseite (a very useful site if you want to research on German genealogy, and can comprehend a bit of German).

    Don't know if it really helps, but I thought I post it anyway, if only as food for thought.
    Do you know where the german name SCHALES comes from?

  7. #57
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by KFundora View Post
    It's been a while since I last posted here but I have recently found out some interesting information.

    I found out that my father's Y-STRs were tested and using the values for his 12 Y-STRs, I inputted them into Ysearch. I did not get back any 0 step matches or even 1 step matches. The closest genetic matches I got were two men: one with the surname Foster (earliest paternal ancestor from Germany) and the other Atwell (earliest paternal ancestor from Northumberland, England). They were 2 steps away from me, which FTDNA and Ysearch denote as "Probably Not Related." They go on to say that "you are unlikely to share a common male ancestor within the genealogical time frame." So does that mean we share a common male ancestor, just really long ago?

    Using the patterns seen in between the generations to the MRCA for 25 and 37 STRs, I calculated that there is a 95% probability that I share a common male ancestor with them some 66 generations ago. I am not sure if the math of the whole system was predictable enough for me to go on to do that but I did it anyways. Afterwards, I then predicted that since the average age men have had children is roughly 20-25 years, that 66 generations ago is between 1,320 to 1,650 years ago (or 364-694 CE). I cannot accurately interpret what this means, for I have a tendency to go down a slippery slope of assumptions.

    Also, the next closest matches (3 steps) were 5 individuals: 4 from the US (Frush, Atwell, Curtiss, Owens) and 1 German (Frush).

    Furthermore, the individuals that have tested CTS8862+ from FTDNA and CTS11984+ were all 5-6 steps away from me (Pretotto, Knox, and Espinoza).

    We have now been placed together in ftdna T project.............can you confirm further back for your family line?

    other CTS8862 are now Da Lessio ( 15 generic distance from me ), Schales ( ysearch 4MNH3, 1 GD from me ) ,

    I also think we have a very good match with the swiss person ( ysearch 7JAQZ, 2 GD from me) from the 13th century, and also the slovene, Mozenic , 2 GD from me ( mozen means coins ( of various values) in venetian ), but I doubt he will go for a further test beyond 12 marker

  8. #58
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T-CTS1848
    MtDNA haplogroup
    L3e2b

    Ethnic group
    Latino
    Country: United States



    I just saw! How intriguing! We're exact matches! That was with just 12 Y-STRs, as my Y-DNA 37 has yet to come in.

    And unfortunately, no we still cannot go further back then Cuba with our paternal line

    We've been placed together in the Gamma 1-X T-CTS8862 Unmatched on the Haplogroup T Project STR Results page. I have to continue research and will get back to with you.

  9. #59
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by KFundora View Post
    I just saw! How intriguing! We're exact matches! That was with just 12 Y-STRs, as my Y-DNA 37 has yet to come in.

    And unfortunately, no we still cannot go further back then Cuba with our paternal line

    We've been placed together in the Gamma 1-X T-CTS8862 Unmatched on the Haplogroup T Project STR Results page. I have to continue research and will get back to with you.
    found this line from Lombardy Italy...........they sent a family line to the greek islands held by Italy after the 1911-1912 Turco-italian war.
    Do you see any in regards to matches
    FONDRA


    1.o Alfonso2.
    o Eugénia & Mario Pierre Isidore SUMMA 1910-19733.
    o Giovanna4.
    o
    Innocenzo & Teresa VENINI
    o
    Ferdinando ca 1826-1888 & ? ?
    o
    Alfredo 1866-1895
    oGiovanni1829-1908 & Luisa Ou Luigia BORETTI 1845-1923
    o
    Enrico 1864-
    o
    Joachim (Giovacchino) 1865-1926 & Argyro CARIDHIA
    o
    Giovanni1894-1894
    o
    Luisa 1895-1921
    o
    Elfrida Anna 1896- &1922 Antonio PREDONZAN ...
    o
    Elena Anna Cristina 1897-1897
    o
    Arturo 1898-1971 &1924 Giovanna PREDONZAN
    o
    Elvira Luisa
    oJoachim (Giovacchino) 1865-1926 &1918 Maria PIROLOVOS
    o
    Ettore1903-1924
    o
    Eugenia1905- &1925 Guy FIOROVICH
    o
    Giovanni1908- &1935 Maria FRAGIACOMO
    o
    Adolfo 1867-1924 &1893 Teresa FILINESI 1872- 5.
    o
    Teresa


    in cuba
    this is the oldest line 1847

    genovapete1969 1 FUNDORA
    1847 - 1847 San Antonio de Los Banos Cuba

    o Rosario
    owner of line is Peter Genova .....city is San Antonio de Los Banos

    red print is Fundora or Fondra person

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    99% of all Fondera are french from:

    Joan FONDERA

    Titles: pagès



    • Born about 1600 - Millas,66170,Pyrénées-Orientales,Languedoc-Roussillon,FRANCE
    • Deceased

    Spouses and children




    about 1600 : Birth - Millas,66170,Pyrénées-Orientales,Languedoc-Roussillon,FRANCE
    20 February 1657 : Will - Millas,66170,Pyrénées-Orientales,Languedoc-Roussillon,FRANCE
    Notaire : Montbolo Miquel

    son fils Joseph, chirurgien (qui ne réapparait plus ensuite), ses filles Monserrada, Géronima, Anna (qui n'apparaît plus dans les testaments suivants) et Maria épouse Burch (1er mariage)

    Sources: relevés de l'association - A.C.G. - Other - moi-même - Other
    23 December 1668 : Will - Millas,66170,Pyrénées-Orientales,Languedoc-Roussillon,FRANCE
    Notaire : Montbolo Miquel

    Ce testament sera remplacé par celui de 1676. Il énonce le nom des 2 premières épouses et par contre attribue à la seconde Boher, Monserrada (Maria) 3 enfants Isabel, Thérèse et Jaume, qui vont ensuite être replacée sous la 3eme épouse Joana."

    Sources: relevés de l'association - A.C.G. - Other - moi-même - Other
    8 September 1676 : Will - Millas,66170,Pyrénées-Orientales,Languedoc-Roussillon,FRANCE
    notaire : Amill Hieronim
    nouveau testament : Joana est sa 3eme épouse et la mère de ses enfants Thérèse, Isabel épouse Cubri, Jaume 14 ans, Géronima épouse de Sylvestre Palegri. (Il y a un hiatus avec le testament de 1668 où Thérèse, Isabel et Jaume sont indiqués enfants de Maria Boher 2eme épouse). Lors des mariages de ces enfants, leurs mères est bien Joana.
    Sa 1ere épouse Maria (Burch) était la mère de Maria épouse de Côme Burch, sa seconde épouse Maria ? était la mère de Monserrada épouse de Miquel BOHER

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    found this line from Lombardy Italy...........they sent a family line to the greek islands held by Italy after the 1911-1912 Turco-italian war.
    Do you see any in regards to matches
    FONDRA


    1.o Alfonso2.
    o Eugénia & Mario Pierre Isidore SUMMA 1910-19733.
    o Giovanna4.
    o
    Innocenzo & Teresa VENINI
    o
    Ferdinando ca 1826-1888 & ? ?
    o
    Alfredo 1866-1895
    oGiovanni1829-1908 & Luisa Ou Luigia BORETTI 1845-1923
    o
    Enrico 1864-
    o
    Joachim (Giovacchino) 1865-1926 & Argyro CARIDHIA
    o
    Giovanni1894-1894
    o
    Luisa 1895-1921
    o
    Elfrida Anna 1896- &1922 Antonio PREDONZAN ...
    o
    Elena Anna Cristina 1897-1897
    o
    Arturo 1898-1971 &1924 Giovanna PREDONZAN
    o
    Elvira Luisa
    oJoachim (Giovacchino) 1865-1926 &1918 Maria PIROLOVOS
    o
    Ettore1903-1924
    o
    Eugenia1905- &1925 Guy FIOROVICH
    o
    Giovanni1908- &1935 Maria FRAGIACOMO
    o
    Adolfo 1867-1924 &1893 Teresa FILINESI 1872- 5.
    o
    Teresa


    in cuba
    this is the oldest line 1847

    genovapete1969 1 FUNDORA
    1847 - 1847 San Antonio de Los Banos Cuba

    o Rosario
    owner of line is Peter Genova .....city is San Antonio de Los Banos

    red print is Fundora or Fondra person
    Unfortunately no I do not see any familiar people or anyone possibly related to me in that Fondra family. Remember, my earliest ancestor that we know was born around 1809 in San Antonio de Rio Blanco del Norte, La Habana, Cuba.

    I contacted Peter not too long ago and his Fundora ancestor is his great-great-great grandmother named Rosario Fundora. Her son, his great-great-grandfather, was born in San Antonio de los Baños in 1847. Comparing temporal data, we may be distantly related. The earliest account of Fundora in Cuba comes from 1773, when Antonio Fundora (b. 1759) enlisted in the Cuban-Spanish Army. He fought against the British in the Anglo-Spanish War in Louisiana and Florida, part of the American Revolutionary War. I also recently found a Santiago Jose Fundora y Cabrera baptized in Bejucal, La Habana from 1770-1780 (his record was found in a general church record entry).

    These two sites provide information regarding Fundora:
    http://www.xn--apellidosespaa-2nb.co...o/fundora.html -> this one says that Fundora has a Spanish heraldic shield and is common in the Canary Islands
    http://apellido.enfemenino.com/w/ape...dora-leon.html -> this one says that there are between 337-358 people in Barcelona Province with the surname Fundora Leon.
    Last edited by Huracan; 13-07-14 at 02:15.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Fondera is a surname that appears in Pyrenees-Orientales, France since the late 1500s and early 1600s. Fundera, its variant, also appears in the same areas. Fondora, another variant, if I remember correctly also goes back to the same time period and area (as per World Vital Records). Most of this information I got from FamilySearch.org. It also appears in records from Gerona since the mid-1600s and into the 1700s. In Barcelona province, it continues to the modern-day.

    Thus, a Catalan-French origin seems to be the best option for the origin for Fundora, especially since Fundora is also found in a lot of Latin American countries (i.e. Mexico, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, Panama, Ecuador, Chile, and Brazil), being distributed by Catalan and Spaniard settlers in the New World.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KFundora View Post
    Unfortunately no I do not see any familiar people or anyone possibly related to me in that Fondra family. Remember, my earliest ancestor that we know was born around 1809 in San Antonio de Rio Blanco del Norte, La Habana, Cuba.

    I contacted Peter not too long ago and his Fundora ancestor is his great-great-great grandmother named Rosario Fundora. Her son, his great-great-grandfather, was born in San Antonio de los Baños in 1847. Comparing temporal data, we may be distantly related. The earliest account of Fundora in Cuba comes from 1773, when Antonio Fundora (b. 1759) enlisted in the Cuban-Spanish Army. He fought against the British in the Anglo-Spanish War in Louisiana and Florida, part of the American Revolutionary War. I also recently found a Santiago Jose Fundora y Cabrera baptized in Bejucal, La Habana from 1770-1780 (his record was found in a general church record entry).

    These two sites provide information regarding Fundora:
    http://www.xn--apellidosespaa-2nb.co...o/fundora.html -> this one says that Fundora has a Spanish heraldic shield and is common in the Canary Islands
    http://apellido.enfemenino.com/w/ape...dora-leon.html -> this one says that there are between 337-358 people in Barcelona Province with the surname Fundora Leon.
    thanks

    The year 1759 for Antonio makes sense in that the story is no catalan or basque went to the new world via spanish ships due to some type of legality/rules. this was changed in ~1720

    whats your plan?

    I have registry records from 1689 to now for me..........plus another document from Rovereto from 1610 .............I just need to trace this Gaspar guy from 1545 , again in Val di Cembra Trentino Italy...............we might only be linked via a paternal marriage of sisters long long time ago...or ...?

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    Also @Sile, I wish to refresh myself on the possible origins for L131, L446, CTS11984, and CTS8862. I remember you saying and reading elsewhere that M272 (our line) migrated north of the Caspian and it was in the northern Caucasus (Pontic-Caspian steppe) that L131 appeared. Despite the predominant L446 presence in Europe, I see on Family Tree DNA that there are lots of L446+ individuals in Saudi Arabia, meaning that L446 originated in Eurasia, likely the same place as L131. Now CTS11984 and CTS8862 both seem to be only found in the European but could have either appeared also in the north Caucasus or in Europe. Although the age for the T subclades goes back to the Neolithic, I cannot find any source of Neolithic culture/peoples spreading from the Caucasus, into north of the Black Sea, and entering Europe. I may be wrong, but is there a possibility that the northern L131, L446, CTS11984, and CTS8862 lineages were dispersed by the Indo-Europeans?

    I know the Indo-Europeans were predominantly haplogroup R (R1a + R1b) but the compelling hypotheses for the origins of the Indo-Europeans seem to point to a Pontic-Caspian steppe/north Caucasus area of origin, the same as L131. Also, the presence of L446, CTS11984, and CTS8862 in the British Isles, which have some of the least Neolithic influence (typical of Northern Europe), can be explained by an introduction via the Celts (supported by the presence of these lineages in Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and England). Even the presence of L446 sister clade P322/P328 in Scandinavia, Shetland, and Orkney Islands can be attributed to an Indo-European introduction, namely the Germanic peoples (Norse, Vikings, etc.). And when you said that the T-project managers told you that your line came into the Venice area when the Italics came in via the eastern Alpine passes, it appears to support these hypotheses. And when they said that your line also came from the Black Sea area, it also coincides with an Indo-European introduction.
    Also, even Maciamo suggested that L131 was absorbed by the Indo-Europeans as they spread eastward into Central Asia, owing to its presence in Xinjiang (extreme western China, next to Kazakhstan).

    Therefore, what I see is that L131 and it's European oriented lineages originated in the Pontic-Caspian steppe north of the Caucasus. Later or around the same time, they were absorbed and assimilated into the Proto-Indo-European substrate and then migrated along with the Indo-Europeans in their successful expansions into Europe.

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    Since we share a genetic distance of 0, but have a different surname (and largely different national ancestries), we likely share a common male ancestor that lived centuries to thousands of years ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KFundora View Post
    Also @Sile, I wish to refresh myself on the possible origins for L131, L446, CTS11984, and CTS8862. I remember you saying and reading elsewhere that M272 (our line) migrated north of the Caspian and it was in the northern Caucasus (Pontic-Caspian steppe) that L131 appeared. Despite the predominant L446 presence in Europe, I see on Family Tree DNA that there are lots of L446+ individuals in Saudi Arabia, meaning that L446 originated in Eurasia, likely the same place as L131. Now CTS11984 and CTS8862 both seem to be only found in the European but could have either appeared also in the north Caucasus or in Europe. Although the age for the T subclades goes back to the Neolithic, I cannot find any source of Neolithic culture/peoples spreading from the Caucasus, into north of the Black Sea, and entering Europe. I may be wrong, but is there a possibility that the northern L131, L446, CTS11984, and CTS8862 lineages were dispersed by the Indo-Europeans?

    I know the Indo-Europeans were predominantly haplogroup R (R1a + R1b) but the compelling hypotheses for the origins of the Indo-Europeans seem to point to a Pontic-Caspian steppe/north Caucasus area of origin, the same as L131. Also, the presence of L446, CTS11984, and CTS8862 in the British Isles, which have some of the least Neolithic influence (typical of Northern Europe), can be explained by an introduction via the Celts (supported by the presence of these lineages in Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and England). Even the presence of L446 sister clade P322/P328 in Scandinavia, Shetland, and Orkney Islands can be attributed to an Indo-European introduction, namely the Germanic peoples (Norse, Vikings, etc.). And when you said that the T-project managers told you that your line came into the Venice area when the Italics came in via the eastern Alpine passes, it appears to support these hypotheses. And when they said that your line also came from the Black Sea area, it also coincides with an Indo-European introduction.
    Also, even Maciamo suggested that L131 was absorbed by the Indo-Europeans as they spread eastward into Central Asia, owing to its presence in Xinjiang (extreme western China, next to Kazakhstan).

    Therefore, what I see is that L131 and it's European oriented lineages originated in the Pontic-Caspian steppe north of the Caucasus. Later or around the same time, they were absorbed and assimilated into the Proto-Indo-European substrate and then migrated along with the Indo-Europeans in their successful expansions into Europe.
    The predominate T areas in the middle-east areas today are.......assyrians 16%, armenians 7%, Azeri 9%, lezkins 7%, dagestan 6%, there are far less % in saudi arabia ( except the "saudi nobility" ) ......I was once told the saudi nobility cam south from Persia.

    The pontic-caspian area includes the
    this is what Maciano correctly states....T1a2 has been found as far east as the Volga-Ural region of Russia and Xinjiang in north-west China. This branch probably penetrated into the Pontic-Caspian Steppe during the Neolithic (perhaps alongside G2a3b1 and J2b2) ......T1a2 is L131 line

    You also need to remember that T along with L, G and J broke off early from its parent K before K ever thought about forming P which later formed the R group. these "west-asian" TLGJ, could have been the first in europe ...the scouts/hunter gathers/ herders

    R dominated europe because they brought along "dynastic" system of concubines , something the hunter gather herders did not have


    In regards to 1 project manager states ............"i thought you had slavic, you do not, I thought you had iberic or balkan, you don't ., no african or ashkenazi ?!
    the other states alpine ....either east or west alpine

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    Quote Originally Posted by KFundora View Post
    Since we share a genetic distance of 0, but have a different surname (and largely different national ancestries), we likely share a common male ancestor that lived centuries to thousands of years ago.
    I was told 0 means not older than 800 years

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    Yes, I may have jumped the gun regarding the distribution of T in Europe, especially T-L131. An old Neolithic origin and distribution is the more likely situation.

    Now, I updated to 37 Y-STRs and we are no longer closely related at all. The closest match I have now is a man from the Azores, with surname Lemas, who is a genetic distance of 4 from me. Otherwise, I have no close matches in any respect. The 25 Y-STRs showed that I was a distance of 1 from Lemas and several Frush/Froshour (German/German-Americans); no individuals with a distance of 0.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KFundora View Post
    Yes, I may have jumped the gun regarding the distribution of T in Europe, especially T-L131. An old Neolithic origin and distribution is the more likely situation.

    Now, I updated to 37 Y-STRs and we are no longer closely related at all. The closest match I have now is a man from the Azores, with surname Lemas, who is a genetic distance of 4 from me. Otherwise, I have no close matches in any respect. The 25 Y-STRs showed that I was a distance of 1 from Lemas and several Frush/Froshour (German/German-Americans); no individuals with a distance of 0.
    in the project site where we sit , you need to ignore the fast mutating red DYS ones and check the others , ...the darker the blue the slower the mutation change.

    we miss in DYS447..........you are like 15% of the world, I am 2% of the world

    we then have 5 misses in 37 markers , so we fit here

    Re: Y Chromosome Marker Details: DYS 447

    As an administrator ( not me ) with a study with persons who have tested with Family Tree, DNA Heritage, Ancesrty.com and SMFG, we use the following simple guidelines to apply to all:

    37 Marker level:
    . A 37/37 match: Very Tightly Related.
    . A 36/37 match: Tightly Related. Family Tree states that very few people achieve this close of a match.
    . A 35/37 or 34/37 match: Related.
    . A 33/37 or 32/37 match: Marginal.
    . A 31/37 match and beyond: You are not related and the odds are that you have not shared a common male ancestor with anyone in this group within thousands of years.



    we are in the marginal group

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    KF

    do you match any of mine below, some are in ysearch search, most are not. these are surnames and origins ( i have left you out , it did have you as cuba, but in haplo-origins ( ydna ftdna) you are now spain )

    Da Lessio, north italy
    Fava, North italy
    Mozentic, Slovenia .............stated venetian from name Mozen ( IMO , could be like the austrian below)
    Schales, South Germany
    Molzen, Austria
    Toigo, North Italy
    Cemin, North Italy
    Viselli, central Italy
    Rossi, North Italy
    Higuera, Basque
    and Benedetto, south Italy

    plus 7 from the british isles ( mostly irish and welsh )

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    KF

    do you match any of mine below, some are in ysearch search, most are not. these are surnames and origins ( i have left you out , it did have you as cuba, but in haplo-origins ( ydna ftdna) you are now spain )

    Da Lessio, north italy
    Fava, North italy
    Mozentic, Slovenia .............stated venetian from name Mozen ( IMO , could be like the austrian below)
    Schales, South Germany
    Molzen, Austria
    Toigo, North Italy
    Cemin, North Italy
    Viselli, central Italy
    Rossi, North Italy
    Higuera, Basque
    and Benedetto, south Italy

    plus 7 from the british isles ( mostly irish and welsh )
    I match the following from your list:

    12 Y-STRs:
    Mozetič (0)
    Schales (0) [FTDNA]
    Benedetto (0)
    Viselli (1)
    Higuera (1)
    Rossi (1) [FTDNA]
    Rossi (6) [Ysearch]
    Schales (6) [Ysearch]

    25 Y-STRs:
    Schales (6) [Ysearch]
    Rossi (6) [Ysearch]

    37 Y-STRs:
    Schales (6) [Ysearch]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    in the project site where we sit , you need to ignore the fast mutating red DYS ones and check the others , ...the darker the blue the slower the mutation change.

    we miss in DYS447..........you are like 15% of the world, I am 2% of the world

    we then have 5 misses in 37 markers , so we fit here

    Re: Y Chromosome Marker Details: DYS 447

    As an administrator ( not me ) with a study with persons who have tested with Family Tree, DNA Heritage, Ancesrty.com and SMFG, we use the following simple guidelines to apply to all:

    37 Marker level:
    . A 37/37 match: Very Tightly Related.
    . A 36/37 match: Tightly Related. Family Tree states that very few people achieve this close of a match.
    . A 35/37 or 34/37 match: Related.
    . A 33/37 or 32/37 match: Marginal.
    . A 31/37 match and beyond: You are not related and the odds are that you have not shared a common male ancestor with anyone in this group within thousands of years.



    we are in the marginal group
    Oh this is interesting... where is the site/source where you got this from?

    Is a marginal relation noteworthy?

    I have to review the slower mutating STRs, especially in regards to my match on FTDNA that was a distance of 4 from me (Lemas).

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    FTDNA is listing me as Spain? So when you click on haplo-origins it actually shows me as Spain, despite the farthest my documented line goes back is in Cuba. I know it's obvious it could have come from Spain but I didn't confirm or state that.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by KFundora View Post
    FTDNA is listing me as Spain? So when you click on haplo-origins it actually shows me as Spain, despite the farthest my documented line goes back is in Cuba. I know it's obvious it could have come from Spain but I didn't confirm or state that.
    haplogroup origins cannot give me your cuba, ......it will give me Spain along with my other Italy and ireland.

    Isogg T is updated...........looks like we will go back under L446

  25. #75
    Regular Member Achievements:
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    Huracan's Avatar
    Join Date
    21-02-14
    Posts
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    Points: 7,306, Level: 25
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T-CTS1848
    MtDNA haplogroup
    L3e2b

    Ethnic group
    Latino
    Country: United States



    Oh ok.

    And where is this update? I can't find any updated info on the ISOGG site or on FTDNA

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