Questions on my Y-DNA Haplogroup T

[torzio]

@Torzio … from 1725 onwards, my AncestryDNA map shows my genetic presence in your area, in multiple dates.

interesting .............in the last 48 hours I got 2 families I link genetically close to

Pietro Moscher b. 1891 Trambileno, Trento, Italy .....and his line

Gisella Paurle b. 1900 Pozzachio, Trento, Italy .....and her line

along with the Beceval detto Rasmi family .......who seem to be in 3 places of which one is for me

http://www.marianoberti.it/index.php...ecevello-rasmi

[torzio]

2 of the above ( in previous post thread ) I have made contact with their relatives in USA via 23andme site

[torzio]

Attachment 13067
The new YFull CTS1848* sample (@torzio you said he was from the Netherlands?) was placed in a new subclade with me in the live version of the tree. Let's see if it stays. Very interesting

https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/T-CTS1848/

new Yfull

Nicolas VIRONET, b. 1818, d. 1874 Belgium YF103151 new T-Y61337*

belongs to the Verona family ...........a 2nd cousin of the other Vironet samples

[torzio]

new Yfull

Nicolas VIRONET, b. 1818, d. 1874 Belgium YF103151 new T-Y61337*

belongs to the Verona family ...........a 2nd cousin of the other Vironet samples

I just received in FtDna a Bradley Verona as 1 step from my ydna marker


in FtDNa he is T-FT158444


stated he did a Big Y test

[torzio]

Hans Caspar Gräßer; b 1660 and d. 1744 from Germany....................is T- L446
His grandson Johann Christoph came to Canada during the American revolution.

Claude Cregheur is related to the above Hans ( he is french-canadian ) he is T-BY60439. His paternal ancestors are from Thüringen, Germany.

surname changes are a bummer

[torzio]

@Torzio
officially there are only 3 of us … The Survivors :)

Is there any of the people you posted around T_SK1480 ?

IN68942 Unknown Origin T-SK1480, this sample from ftdna Montreuil project...................He appears to be French.

FTDNA allocate IN to their own kits shipped to overseas addresses.

[Salento]

IN68942 Unknown Origin T-SK1480, this sample from ftdna Montreuil project...................He appears to be French.
FTDNA allocate IN to their own kits shipped to overseas addresses.

Merci Torzio, … it means Thanks en Français, … maybe

I guess we’re 4:
D'Artagnan, Athos, Aramis, and Porthos

[torzio]

Merci Torzio, … it means Thanks en Français, … maybe

I guess we’re 4:
D'Artagnan, Athos, Aramis, and Porthos

You are the priestly perfumed one

Maybe I am the the gascon one.......err, maybe not ...................I am definitely not the big one

[torzio]

Merci Torzio, … it means Thanks en Français, … maybe
I guess we’re 4:
D'Artagnan, Athos, Aramis, and Porthos

https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults
compare yourself to IN68942

[Hawk]

So, is Y-DNA T one of the lineages of PPNB farmers from Levant? How did it end up among Somalis? Because both their E-M78 and Y-DNA T have a recent founder effect among Somalis, looks like both Y-DNA E-M78 and T entered Eastern Africa with Natufian-like/PPNB populations and mixed with Nilothic Eastern African populations.

Would it show among Ancient Egyptians?

[Salento]

So, is Y-DNA T one of the lineages of PPNB farmers from Levant? How did it end up among Somalis? Because both their E-M78 and Y-DNA T have a recent founder effect among Somalis, looks like both Y-DNA E-M78 and T entered Eastern Africa with Natufian-like/PPNB populations and mixed with Nilothic Eastern African populations.

Would it show among Ancient Egyptians?

… some Ts went back to Africa! … from Asia, like R1*.
y T was in Europe since the neolithic.

Y T may have originated in Western Asia, … spread into E. Africa, S.Asia, S.Europe, and more.

….. T on the African continent may, like R1* representatives, point to an older introduction from Asia. The Levant rather than the Arabian Peninsula appears to have been the main route of entry, as the Egyptian and Turkish haplotypes are considerably older in age (13,700 BP and 9,000 BP, respectively) than those found in Oman (only 1,600 BP). According to the authors, the spotty modern distribution pattern of haplogroup T-M184 within Africa may therefore represent the traces of a more widespread early local presence of the clade. Later expansions of populations carrying the E1b1b, E1b1a, G and J NRY lineages may have overwhelmed the T-M184 clade-bearers in certain localities……

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_T-M184

[torzio]

So, is Y-DNA T one of the lineages of PPNB farmers from Levant? How did it end up among Somalis? Because both their E-M78 and Y-DNA T have a recent founder effect among Somalis, looks like both Y-DNA E-M78 and T entered Eastern Africa with Natufian-like/PPNB populations and mixed with Nilothic Eastern African populations.

Would it show among Ancient Egyptians?

are you referring to the T in the cave found with a bow.............a hunter ?

Ain Ghazal ( 9600 yBP - Early Neolithic ) Late Middle PPNB

I1707 ( 9573 ± 39 yBP )
Y-DNA: T1a-PF5610 (x T1a1a-Z19870, T1a1b-Y6031, T1a2b-FGC37337, T1a2a-Y9189)
mtDNA: R0a
Other IDs: Ghazal-I / AG83_5 / Poz-81097
Coverage: 0,142
atDNA Notes: Northern origin.
Files: FASTQ / FASTQ&BAM (galaxy) / BAM

...............
or these below who are from one line also found in Iberia and atlantic coast Morocco
Peqi'in Cave ( 6150 yBP - Late Chalcolithic )

I1155
Y-DNA: T1a1a1a-CTS2214 (xY15711,, Y21017, Y3782, Y9102, Z709)
mtDNA: K1a
Sample: Petrous
Coverage: 0.09
Other IDs: CHPK021 / S1155.E1.L1
Files: FASTQ / FASTQ&BAM (galaxy) / BAM

I1160
Y-DNA: T1a1a1a-CTS2214 (xY15711,, Y21017, Y3782, Y9102, Z709)
mtDNA: N1a1b
Sample: Petrous
Coverage: 308
Other IDs: CHPKL101B-005, CHPKL101B-011 / S1160.E1.L1, S1161.E1.L1
Files: FASTQ / FASTQ&BAM (galaxy) / BAM

I1165
Y-DNA: T1a1a1a-CTS2214 (xY15711,, Y21017, Y3782, Y9102, Z709)
mtDNA: HV1a’b’c’
Sample: Petrous
Coverage: 0.95
Other IDs: CHPKL104-004 / S1165.E1.L1
Files: FASTQ / FASTQ&BAM (galaxy) / BAM

I1166
Y-DNA: T1a1a1a-CTS2214 (xY15711,, Y21017, Y3782, Y9102, Z709)
mtDNA: H
Sample: Petrous
Coverage: 0.981
Other IDs: CHPKL104-014, CHPKL104-026 / S1166.E1.L1 / S1167.E1.L1
Files: FASTQ / FASTQ&BAM (galaxy) / BAM

I1170
Y-DNA: T1a1a1a-CTS2214 (xY15711,, Y21017, Y3782, Y9102, Z709)
mtDNA: T1a2
Sample: Petrous
Coverage: 0.67
Other IDs: CHPKL105-030 / S1170.E1.L1
Files: FASTQ / FASTQ&BAM (galaxy) / BAM

I1172
Y-DNA: T1a1a1a-CTS2214 (xY15711,, Y21017, Y3782, Y9102, Z709)
mtDNA: K1a
Sample: Petrous
Coverage: 0.12
Other IDs: CHPKL108B-024 / S1172.E1.L1
Files: FASTQ / FASTQ&BAM (galaxy) / BAM

I1178
Y-DNA: T1a1a1a-CTS2214 (xY15711,, Y21017, Y3782, Y9102, Z709)
mtDNA: I6
Sample: Petrous
Coverage: 2.56
Other IDs: CHPKL109L-015 / S1178.E1.L1
Files: FASTQ / FASTQ&BAM (galaxy) / BAM

I1180
Y-DNA: T1a1a1a-CTS2214 (xY15711,, Y21017, Y3782, Y9102, Z709)
mtDNA: T
Sample: Petrous
Coverage: 0.09
Other IDs: CHPKL109M-028 / S1180.E1.L1
Files: FASTQ / FASTQ&BAM (galaxy) / BAM

I1187
Y-DNA: T1a1a1a-CTS2214 (xY15711,, Y21017, Y3782, Y9102, Z709)
mtDNA: U6d
Sample: Petrous
Coverage: 0.12
Other IDs: CHPKL301N-001 / Library S1187.E1.L1
Other IDs: CHPKL109M-028 / S1180.E1.L1
Files: FASTQ / FASTQ&BAM (galaxy) / BAM

Peqi'in Cave atDNA notes: Northern origin. They also carry the WHG G allele for Blue eyes at Rs12913832.

[torzio]

Northern origin refers to anywhere between Black sea Georgia area to northern Syria

[torzio]

… some Ts went back to Africa! … from Asia, like R1*.
y T was in Europe since the neolithic.

Y T may have originated in Western Asia, … spread into E. Africa, S.Asia, S.Europe, and more.

….. T on the African continent may, like R1* representatives, point to an older introduction from Asia. The Levant rather than the Arabian Peninsula appears to have been the main route of entry, as the Egyptian and Turkish haplotypes are considerably older in age (13,700 BP and 9,000 BP, respectively) than those found in Oman (only 1,600 BP). According to the authors, the spotty modern distribution pattern of haplogroup T-M184 within Africa may therefore represent the traces of a more widespread early local presence of the clade. Later expansions of populations carrying the E1b1b, E1b1a, G and J NRY lineages may have overwhelmed the T-M184 clade-bearers in certain localities……

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_T-M184

Lemba T in South Africa origin in modern syria.............they went to modern Yemen, then Tanzania and then south Africa, they mixed and married local women as they took no women with them when they left syria ..............looking at their history they believe they where some type of religious order...........I might check on web to see any updates on them.

first reported in the mendez paper of 2011

[torzio]

https://www.familytreedna.com/public...§ion=yresults
compare yourself to IN68942

I found out that all of these in the link, represent the French who went to first settle in Canada

most come from Denis province of France

[torzio]

Interesting in BigY is that T1a2-Pages00113 has a few Ukraines, Belarus and Poles ..............yet this snp is negative for myself .............but I have a Pole in my T1a2-SK1480 group, he does state/thinks he is of dutch origin part of hansetic league


still nothing on who is the sample in post #1065

[torzio]

Ulrich Blarer b about 1190 and d 1242 Sankt Gallen Switzerland T-CTS933


in any Ftdna project ................my closest , oldest sample seems to be , the above


but the one that sits in my group ( also in yfull ) is Giovanni ERSPAMER, b. 1704 (Malosco, Italy) Italy

[Salento]

T-CTS8862 is now in Germany, T-BY143483 and T-SK1480 overlap in Italy, ... we're totally Romans

[torzio]

T-CTS8862 is now in Germany, T-BY143483 and T-SK1480 overlap in Italy, ... we're totally Romans

looks like Samnites or Sabines .............we are not elite enough to be Romans

[Salento]

looks like Samnites or Sabines .............we are not elite enough to be Romans

…we’re very Elite (Golden King, Jefferson, …), as far as we know, Romulus was one of us, maybe :)

[torzio]

looks like Samnites or Sabines .............we are not elite enough to be Romans

umbri migrated into Italy from central europe circa 2300BC ..............like your map

[Salento]

looks like Samnites or Sabines .............we are not elite enough to be Romans

If the timeline is OK, we should share close ancestors in the last 220 years or less, … and since the 1600s (at least), Rome, Marche, and Lecce has had communities of people close to my DNA (according to MyHeritage).

[Pax Augusta]

umbri migrated into Italy from central europe circa 2300BC ..............like your map

Archeologists support the idea that Umbrians were formed in Italy, didn't come from abroad. Those who arrived in the Bronze Age are a prehistoric or protohistoric component from which their language is most likely descended.

For anthropologists then, one can speak of peoples in Italy and other parts of Europe only when they show ethnic self-awareness, which occurs in the Iron Age, and not before.

[torzio]

Archeologists support the idea that Umbrians were formed in Italy, didn't come from abroad. Those who arrived in the Bronze Age are a prehistoric or protohistoric component from which their language is most likely descended.

For anthropologists then, one can speak of peoples in Italy and other parts of Europe only when they show ethnic self-awareness, which occurs in the Iron Age, and not before.

I agree ....and I said many times , the bulk of Italians from central and south italy come via only 2 groups , the Etruscan and Umbri group

I leave out Sicily and the Northern Italians groups ( basically the ones north of the Po river and the Liguri ( and beyond ) )......................I only state what other Archeologists state in their documentations , that the Umbri came into Italy via the NE of Italy passage from Central-Europe/czechia areas, ............the date I posted is what they posted

[torzio]

If the timeline is OK, we should share close ancestors in the last 220 years or less, … and since the 1600s (at least), Rome, Marche, and Lecce has had communities of people close to my DNA (according to MyHeritage).

I have a record of my family line ( paternal )going back to 1450 .............for your 220 years ago......my line as per BDM, was in Ponzano Veneto and Villorba towns ...........in 1823 one line went to Morgano in Veneto and another to Volpago del Montello in Veneto.

prior to 1820 ..............the family was around the above noted areas and Montebelluna Veneto areas ( north of )

my cousins in Italy in the last 5 years has found a 90% link with the family in attachment below ...................this family and its marriages with locals has me linking with many DNA matches in the area of Val di Non, Trentino ( it many towns ) ..............I cannot challenge this , even if I ignore 2 segments matches of DNA, there are many I share beyond 2 segments and up to 6 segments ...................chat with me privately for further info/proof

I know your surname is common in Italy ...an equal to smith an jones in britain.......but I have not come across it in my line............maybe your family had a name change.

here is the oldest link presented to my cousins in italy and matching many families in the area

http://www.dermulo.it/DermuloStory/Genealogia/PretH.htm