Questions on my Y-DNA Haplogroup T

This is very interesting! I've never heard of this feature before and wonder how accurate it is. The migration pattern they propose is different than the ones I was hypothesizing for our clades all the way back to L446 and especially CTS11984... I don't think CTS11984/CTS54 originated in Italy because there is an Armenian in the T project that is CTS11984+. I think the Swiss Alp placement of CTS8489/CTS8862 is still consistent with the Ashkenazi Jewish CTS8862+ group in the T project since this population is believed to descend from Jews living along the Rhine and in the general surrounding region. Interesting nonetheless.

L446 is more than 7000 years old, CTS11984/CTS54 almost 4.000, CTS8862 is about 3.100 years old.
Countless events, movements, tribal splits with consequential migrations, .... I could go on and on.
As an example, 400 years after was formed, the main tribe of CTS8862 could have split in 2-3 or 4 tribes, each one of them moving at different, or opposte directions. Each of the tribes eventually joined other populations.
Same examples applies to all clades.
Who Knows for sure.
 
I recently had my Uncle {on my mothers side} tested on 23andMe, to see what my deceased Grandfathers YDNA was. We are all 100% European, almost all Northern European. He was born in London England in 1901. So I was expecting a R1B, R1A, or a I1 12. But no.... we get a T-CTS6507 in Britain- less then 1%.!
Who else has this with a family tree in England, where can I start and try and get further details? further how or if does this tie into Thomas Jeffersons family tree or is this a different line. Looking for some help
 
I recently had my Uncle {on my mothers side} tested on 23andMe, to see what my deceased Grandfathers YDNA was. We are all 100% European, almost all Northern European. He was born in London England in 1901. So I was expecting a R1B, R1A, or a I1 12. But no.... we get a T-CTS6507 in Britain- less then 1%.!
Who else has this with a family tree in England, where can I start and try and get further details? further how or if does this tie into Thomas Jeffersons family tree or is this a different line. Looking for some help

Thomas Jefferson: T1a1a1b1a1a1 PF7444
Your Uncle: T1a1a1b2b2b1a1a CTS6507
Not a family tree connection with Jefferson, but a much older relation.

Your Uncle could be positive for more subclades.
By Alpenjager:
... Thomas Jefferson belongs to T1a1a1b1a1a1-PF7444. Is a 5300ybp large and widely distributed West Eurasia T subclade also found well distributed in Great Britain but sadly still understudied in comparison to other T branches..

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...group-T/page17?p=541447&viewfull=1#post541447

Look for CTS6507 for matches:
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Y-Haplogroup-K2?iframe=yresults
 
Corson line of T1a2-L446

Samuel Corson 1686 - 1764 born NY USA
wife Mary Potts
.
f. Corneilius 1660 - 1719 born USA
wife Hannah Hobbs
.
f. Jan Courson born south Netherlands
wife Truque Muche
.
f. Hendrick Courson born 1620 Netherlands
.
f. Jan Corssen born 1596 Netherlands
.
f. Peter Corssen born 1558 netherlands
wife Annetje Gerrits
.
.
Seem like another T-L446 that is north of the Alps
 
This is very interesting! I've never heard of this feature before and wonder how accurate it is. The migration pattern they propose is different than the ones I was hypothesizing for our clades all the way back to L446 and especially CTS11984... I don't think CTS11984/CTS54 originated in Italy because there is an Armenian in the T project that is CTS11984+. I think the Swiss Alp placement of CTS8489/CTS8862 is still consistent with the Ashkenazi Jewish CTS8862+ group in the T project since this population is believed to descend from Jews living along the Rhine and in the general surrounding region. Interesting nonetheless.

The Placement of Z19945 is in the Jura caves/Jura mountains
I ( and others) recently gave the person the ancient T samples ......shortly he will use these to reset the paths of T
we will see how accurate this is
I think that L446 did not originate in the eastern alps as some have noted, but further north, more likely the north european plain..............we seem to find far too many british families appear with T1a2 SNPs and also noted after the anglo-saxon invasion of England
 
my Global25 results
.
Barcin_N,56.6
Yamnaya_Samara,37.2
WHG,6
Yoruba,0.2
.
I am VG spot on map below......by myself
.
 
my Global25 results
.
Barcin_N,56.6
Yamnaya_Samara,37.2
WHG,6
Yoruba,0.2
.
I am VG spot on map below......by myself
.
global25.jpg

Northern Italy.
Compare yourself with the T1a2 bbk # CL23:

BB_north_ITA.jpg


Nice! :)
 
I was given this from my Global25 numbers


and my cousin from Cles Trentino got same numbers except lower saxony ( 2 % ) instead of the English I got
 
my Global25 results
.
Barcin_N,56.6
Yamnaya_Samara,37.2
WHG,6
Yoruba,0.2
.
I am VG spot on map below......by myself
.

How did you calculate this for yourself, @Sile?
 
How did you calculate this for yourself, @Sile?
no, through eurogenes and then another source
they basically said I am in "the ancient box " of the alps, not north italian or central italian and not tyrolese, not adriatic coast........basically seems to be around salzburg to heading to innsbruck.....I will link another map if I can relog back in , in the next 15 minutes
.
my other plot...........i am VG

the other North -east italians are also isolated......it seems the Bergamo ( north-italian ) is different
 
Last edited:
From the same eurogenes calculator as above .....compared to ancient samples
.
"distance%=2.0102"
.
GERMANI, 34.8
ITALI, 33.6
GRAECI, 24.8
ILLYRII, 2.4
SYRIA, 2.4
VENEDI, 2

.
Hiperboreans - people from far north for the Greeks.
.
Venedi for this test - Balto-Slavic people living in NE Europe
...................................

after more ancient uploaded

my results have slightly changed to

"distance%=2.0103"


GERMANI,34.4
ITALI,33.6
GRAECI,23
ILLYRII,3.6
SYRIA,3
NEURI SLAVI,2.4
 
Last edited:
Another T1a2 that matches myself

William Henry Sizemore, 1844 - 1922
William Henry Sizemore was born on June 6 1844, in Christian, Kentucky, USA, to Henry William Sizemore and Elizabeth Messamore (born Parker).
Henry was born in 1809, in Virginia, USA.
Elizabeth was born in 1814, in North Carolina, USA.

Oldest man I found from this line was 1553 in Middlesex England
.
.
He served in the Confederate States CSA during the civil war ..............but must of left Kentucky for South Carolina as Kentucky stayed in the Union even though it was a slave state
he was part of
3rd Battalion, South Carolina Light Artillery (Palmetto Battalion)
.
Brief History
.
The 3rd Battalion, South Carolina Light Artillery was also known the Palmetto Battalion, Palmetto Battalion Light Artillery, and White's Battalion South Carolina Light Artillery). It was organized in November/December of 1861. Its members were from the counties of Allendale, Richland, Charleston, Georgetown, and Kershaw. The battalion started with with three companies and seven others were added at various times, the last about June 21, 1863. known as the Palmetto Battalion Light Artillery, and also White's Battalion South Carolina Light Artillery. For some time the unit served in the Department of South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida, but the companies were frequently detached to serve in other battalions. The 3rd Battalion Light Artillery was dissolved by the end of 1864.[1][2]
.
.
He matches my other T1a2 USA matches
David A Hill 1850, ........Georgia
Nathaniel Hill 1825, .......Virginia
William A hill 1782 ...North Carolina
and John M Hill 1819...South Carolina
 
a yfull find for a match for me
.
YF06979 .......Henry Sizemore b. 1810 and d.1877
must be the father of Henry William Sizemore
 
a yfull find for a match for me
.
YF06979 .......Henry Sizemore b. 1810 and d.1877
must be the father of Henry William Sizemore
https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/sizemore/1989/
Origin of the surname:
SIZEMORE (Eng.) Descendant of Sigmar (victory, great) dweller on the Saxon's wasteland1
When I checked the LDS IGI for England (Jan/Feb 1988) many years ago, I found numerous pages of records. There were 44 spelling variants of SIZEMORE. The earliest record was dated 1556 and largest concentration of the surname was in the county of Gloucester.2
.
another theory
The Sizemores have been in America since at least the 17th century. Some branches spell it Sisemore. The name is cognate with Cismor and other Portuguese surnames.
is it Saxon, Suebi ancient invasion of iberia?
.
another ...hungarian surname Zizmer
https://books.google.com.au/books?i...XoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=sizemore sigmar&f=false
.
.
I only found that the sizemore surname are ydna T and Ydna Q
 
Another T1a2 that matches myself

William Henry Sizemore, 1844 - 1922
William Henry Sizemore was born on June 6 1844, in Christian, Kentucky, USA, to Henry William Sizemore and Elizabeth Messamore (born Parker).
Henry was born in 1809, in Virginia, USA.
Elizabeth was born in 1814, in North Carolina, USA.

Oldest man I found from this line was 1553 in Middlesex England
.
.
He served in the Confederate States CSA during the civil war ..............but must of left Kentucky for South Carolina as Kentucky stayed in the Union even though it was a slave state
he was part of
3rd Battalion, South Carolina Light Artillery (Palmetto Battalion)
.
Brief History
.
The 3rd Battalion, South Carolina Light Artillery was also known the Palmetto Battalion, Palmetto Battalion Light Artillery, and White's Battalion South Carolina Light Artillery). It was organized in November/December of 1861. Its members were from the counties of Allendale, Richland, Charleston, Georgetown, and Kershaw. The battalion started with with three companies and seven others were added at various times, the last about June 21, 1863. known as the Palmetto Battalion Light Artillery, and also White's Battalion South Carolina Light Artillery. For some time the unit served in the Department of South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida, but the companies were frequently detached to serve in other battalions. The 3rd Battalion Light Artillery was dissolved by the end of 1864.[1][2]
.
.
He matches my other T1a2 USA matches
David A Hill 1850, ........Georgia
Nathaniel Hill 1825, .......Virginia
William A hill 1782 ...North Carolina
and John M Hill 1819...South Carolina

Interesting update! I checked the FTDNA T group and saw that this Sizemore individual is only CTS11984+
 
https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/sizemore/1989/
Origin of the surname:
SIZEMORE (Eng.) Descendant of Sigmar (victory, great) dweller on the Saxon's wasteland1
When I checked the LDS IGI for England (Jan/Feb 1988) many years ago, I found numerous pages of records. There were 44 spelling variants of SIZEMORE. The earliest record was dated 1556 and largest concentration of the surname was in the county of Gloucester.2
.
another theory
The Sizemores have been in America since at least the 17th century. Some branches spell it Sisemore. The name is cognate with Cismor and other Portuguese surnames.
is it Saxon, Suebi ancient invasion of iberia?
.
another ...hungarian surname Zizmer
https://books.google.com.au/books?i...XoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=sizemore sigmar&f=false
.
.
I only found that the sizemore surname are ydna T and Ydna Q

A good portion are I-M253 and R-M269 as well https://www.familytreedna.com/public/SIZEMORE_DNA?iframe=yresults
 
Interesting update! I checked the FTDNA T group and saw that this Sizemore individual is only CTS11984+
Henry william sizemore is the father of
William Henry sizemore
.
Henry william sizemore is the Yfull and Ftdna person ..............yfull matched it first , then I received the match with ftdna
.
Initally, I was given the son as a match in Ftdna ................maybe the owner of the account updated his account ancestral trail
 
T-CTS54
.
T-CTS54*
id:YF06979USA [US-VA] ................<.Henry William Sizemore
id:NA20758ITA
.
T-CTS8489
id:ERS256892ITA [IT-CA]
.
T-CTS8489*
T-Y17493
id:YF04232
id:YF04203USA [US-NC]
.
T-Z19945
T-Z19945*
id:YF07608ITA [IT-TV]
 

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