Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum

View Poll Results: The Future of Crimea

Voters
57. You may not vote on this poll
  • Crimea is special and should become an independent country

    9 15.79%
  • Crimea belongs to Ukraine

    15 26.32%
  • Crimea should become Russian, because most population is Russian

    17 29.82%
  • Crimea should become first Tatar country, the longest residing ethnicity.

    10 17.54%
  • Crimea should be returned to Greece, the first official owner.

    6 10.53%
Page 12 of 43 FirstFirst ... 2101112131422 ... LastLast
Results 276 to 300 of 1073

Thread: Should Crimea be an independent country? (Russian-Ukrainian conflict)

  1. #276
    Regular Member Aberdeen's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-11-13
    Posts
    1,838

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H4

    Ethnic group
    Scottish, English and German
    Country: Canada-Ontario



    1 members found this post helpful.
    According to CBC News, the chief electoral officer in Crimea has stated that 50% of the vote has been counted and that over 95% voted in favour of joining Russia. Given that the Russians were controlling this vote, I'm surprised that the percentage of the vote that was in favour of joining Russia was anything less than 120%.

  2. #277
    Banned
    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    Congrats to people of Crimea. I wish my people and leaders would be as brave as you!

  3. #278
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    04-01-12
    Posts
    125


    Country: Poland



    Crimean Tatars boycotted pole. In Polish news I’ve heard that Russian residents were allowed to vote so we could expect more the 100%.

  4. #279
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    14-10-11
    Posts
    1,040

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    Yes
    MtDNA haplogroup
    Yes

    Ethnic group
    German
    Country: Germany



    I think the explanation is much simpler:: russian wages are three-fold higher than ukrainian, whereas the rest of Ukraine goes IMF.

  5. #280
    Regular Member Ike's Avatar
    Join Date
    20-12-10
    Posts
    1,128


    Country: Yugoslavia



    More than that, Ukrainians will have two passports, giving them ability to balance their personal needs between Russia and EU, whenever one of them gets ahead.

  6. #281
    Curious
    Join Date
    11-08-12
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    2,247

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    Not known - O3?
    MtDNA haplogroup
    Not known - M?

    Ethnic group
    Chinese
    Country: Canada-British Columbia



    My Polish friend visited his brother in Poland. His brother lives near the German border and was worried that Germans who were buying all the properties in Prussia (Western part of Poland) were talking about joining Germany as most of the area is now owned by Germans. They bought land with the high-valued Euros. There is talk that German owners feel it is part of Germany. My friend also is against Poland using the Euro as Polish products will be priced out of the market and would kill tourism. It is the rich Germans propping up Poland as they live on the western part and spend building up homes and businesses.

  7. #282
    Advisor bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,730


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    The difference on whether to be independent or being "annexed" by Russia...................Independence I favour, not annexation.

    but other parts of Europe are seeking indepence

    venice
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26604044

    Scotland in mid 2014

    the catalans

    split of the Walloons and Flemish in Belgium

    and many more

    As i said, 2 different issues for Crimea
    Maybe Crimea should be independent, but I don't think it could survive on its own.
    The whole referendum seems a farce, organised to give the Russians legitimacy.
    On the other hand, what is the legitimacy of the present 'rulers' in Kiev?
    They have not been elected. Yanukovitch was corrupt and abused his power, but at least, he was elected by the whole nation of Ukraine.

  8. #283
    Advisor LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,295

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    According to CBC News, the chief electoral officer in Crimea has stated that 50% of the vote has been counted and that over 95% voted in favour of joining Russia. Given that the Russians were controlling this vote, I'm surprised that the percentage of the vote that was in favour of joining Russia was anything less than 120%.
    Disregarding the fact that this referendum was illegal by any standard but Putin's, the 95% numbers proves that it was also fadged. Even if most Tatars and Ukrainians stayed home in protest that day, it is unlikely that all the rest who voted would choose to join Russia so overwhelmingly. You guys don't need to take my word for it, you can read articles in which statisticians pointed to this as being a statistical phenomenon, a thing of a very small probability. Likewise, a lack of international observers and any transparency supports this statistical suspicion, that the voting was rigged and crime premeditated. I just can't understand why Putin want to tickle himself so much for pleasure, with incredible support of crimeans, to chose such fantastic number as 95%?

    Soviets used to select 99% for their support and love of voters. Now everybody knows that 99% was fake, so Putin has chosen a new 99, which is 95% (or is it 97% in the latest news?). Wow, smart move, now we believe, lol. However, assuming that he is not stupid, and he had run a survey about gullibility of Russian citizens, it means that 95% is a very believable support number for most Russians. This high number will prove to ordinary Russians how much Crimeans love Russia and how their military intervention was needed or even necessary. It feels good for them, therefore it is much easier to believe in 95% being a real support.

    Did they publish a number of participants, how many voted? Did at least 53% voters showed up, to make it 51% ( 95% voted yes) of population for joining Russia? I only heard that "voters turnout was high".
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

  9. #284
    Advisor LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,295

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    Maybe Crimea should be independent, but I don't think it could survive on its own.
    Why not, there are other small and well situated principalities/countries in Europe being very prosperous. All they need to go is tourism and casinos.

  10. #285
    Regular Member Aberdeen's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-11-13
    Posts
    1,838

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H4

    Ethnic group
    Scottish, English and German
    Country: Canada-Ontario



    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Disregarding the fact that this referendum was illegal by any standard but Putin's, the 95% numbers proves that it was also fadged. Even if most Tatars and Ukrainians stayed home in protest that day, it is unlikely that all the rest who voted would choose to join Russia so overwhelmingly. You guys don't need to take my word for it, you can read articles in which statisticians pointed to this as being a statistical phenomenon, a thing of a very small probability. Likewise, a lack of international observers and any transparency supports this statistical suspicion, that the voting was rigged and crime premeditated. I just can't understand why Putin want to tickle himself so much for pleasure, with incredible support of crimeans, to chose such fantastic number as 95%?

    Soviets used to select 99% for their support and love of voters. Now everybody knows that 99% was fake, so Putin has chosen a new 99, which is 95% (or is it 97% in the latest news?). Wow, smart move, now we believe, lol. However, assuming that he is not stupid, and he had run a survey about gullibility of Russian citizens, it means that 95% is a very believable support number for most Russians. This high number will prove to ordinary Russians how much Crimeans love Russia and how their military intervention was needed or even necessary. It feels good for them, therefore it is much easier to believe in 95% being a real support.

    Did they publish a number of participants, how many voted? Did at least 53% voters showed up, to make it 51% ( 95% voted yes) of population for joining Russia? I only heard that "voters turnout was high".
    At one point, CBC said that the Crimean electoral officials reported 80% participation, which CBC found to be an interesting number, since most of the Ukrainians and Tatars apparently boycotted the vote. I don't know why Crimean officials came up with 80% participation - surely 150% participation would be more impressive. But perhaps you're right in thinking that the numbers are intended for Russian consumption only, and Putin doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks.

  11. #286
    Advisor LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,295

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    But perhaps you're right in thinking that the numbers are intended for Russian consumption only, and Putin doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks.
    Logic points to it, though I suspected that Putin made this farce for the rest of the world and didn't care what ordinary Russians think. I've missed the fact that all dictators wants to be loved by people, their own people in particular.

  12. #287
    His Royal Highness Coolboygcp's Avatar
    Join Date
    11-08-13
    Location
    Floridé, Le Monde, Florida, The Earth, Florida, Die Erde
    Posts
    156


    Ethnic group
    English, Northern Irish, Scottish, Norwegian, Danish, Dutch, French, Irish, Greek
    Country: USA - Florida



    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    At one point, CBC said that the Crimean electoral officials reported 80% participation, which CBC found to be an interesting number, since most of the Ukrainians and Tatars apparently boycotted the vote. I don't know why Crimean officials came up with 80% participation - surely 150% participation would be more impressive. But perhaps you're right in thinking that the numbers are intended for Russian consumption only, and Putin doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks.
    I think that the Russians exaggerated the participation rate. It was probably more around 40-60%, than 80%. 80% is not realistic at all. I agree with LeBrok regarding what he said about the Russians holding an illegal and illegitimate referendum.

    I read in The Guardian recently an article about how Angela Merkel was talking with Obama, and she told him that Putin has gone off the deep end, that he is in his own world, and that's he's gone too far with this, etc. And, I have to agree with Merkel, he is in his own world, and he has dug himself into a hole too deep for him to get out of. This could potentially be the ruin of his political career, but he's a dictator so he won't be deposed easily.

  13. #288
    His Royal Highness Coolboygcp's Avatar
    Join Date
    11-08-13
    Location
    Floridé, Le Monde, Florida, The Earth, Florida, Die Erde
    Posts
    156


    Ethnic group
    English, Northern Irish, Scottish, Norwegian, Danish, Dutch, French, Irish, Greek
    Country: USA - Florida



    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Why not, there are other small and well situated principalities/countries in Europe being very prosperous. All they need to go is tourism and casinos.
    Exactly. Crimea has a good location, all they need is more tourism facilities, hotels, casinos, etc. And they need a good PR firm to market Crimea worldwide. Also, if they could find some ancient ruins, that would draw tourists to there as well. It could be the Greece of the Black Sea. (Tourism-wise, not economically.)

  14. #289
    His Royal Highness Coolboygcp's Avatar
    Join Date
    11-08-13
    Location
    Floridé, Le Monde, Florida, The Earth, Florida, Die Erde
    Posts
    156


    Ethnic group
    English, Northern Irish, Scottish, Norwegian, Danish, Dutch, French, Irish, Greek
    Country: USA - Florida



    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    Maybe Crimea should be independent, but I don't think it could survive on its own.
    The whole referendum seems a farce, organised to give the Russians legitimacy.
    On the other hand, what is the legitimacy of the present 'rulers' in Kiev?
    They have not been elected. Yanukovitch was corrupt and abused his power, but at least, he was elected by the whole nation of Ukraine.
    Yes, the referendum is a farce.

    Well, the people in power in Kiev are only for the interim, until the early elections are held. And, they were elected, just not for the positions they currently hold. At least they will only be the leaders for the interim, and once the new elections are held, there will be new leaders of Ukraine, elected for the positions they will hold.

    If Crimea could be truly independent, and not be in the Russian sphere of influence, and join the EU in the future, I would be totally for it. Especially if it was a Greek or a Tatar nation. But, I don't think that would happen, unfortunately.

  15. #290
    Banned
    Join Date
    23-01-11
    Location
    Moscow
    Age
    30
    Posts
    249


    Ethnic group
    Northern Russians - Slavonic & Finno-Ugric mixture, but hell it's just my guesses
    Country: Russian Federation



    Smile

    hahaha I see hysteria in comments of our Anglo-Saxon "friends" - sign that Vlad once again is doing right thing .

    Long live the people of 84th Crimean federal subject! Homeland of RF Black Sea fleet, future tourist & Gardariki dissolute life capital

  16. #291
    Advisor LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,295

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by Anton, Bear's den View Post
    hahaha I see hysteria in comments of our Anglo-Saxon "friends" - sign that Vlad once again is doing right thing .

    Long live the people of 84th Crimean federal subject! Homeland of RF Black Sea fleet, future tourist & Gardariki dissolute life capital
    Russian definition of hysteria must be way different, lol, "Everyone's opinion not in agreement with Putin's."

    Let see if you'll be still optimistic and pro Putin in 5 years.

  17. #292
    martiko martiko's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-01-14
    Posts
    213

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-DF100
    MtDNA haplogroup
    T1a1

    Ethnic group
    european : basqueR1b/IberianI2b
    Country: France



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Logic points to it, though I suspected that Putin made this farce for the rest of the world and didn't care what ordinary Russians think. I've missed the fact that all dictators wants to be loved by people, their own people in particular.
    I know the Russian I know is that two of them are in France, they are afraid and prefer to continue to live in France for two in Russia they say that they have very fear of war and Putin, I think Putin will soon be as loved as Stalin in another era, but the Russian people they suffer from the economic crisis and fear an economic disaster for Russia: a cute taken from a barrel of crude oil.

  18. #293
    His Royal Highness Coolboygcp's Avatar
    Join Date
    11-08-13
    Location
    Floridé, Le Monde, Florida, The Earth, Florida, Die Erde
    Posts
    156


    Ethnic group
    English, Northern Irish, Scottish, Norwegian, Danish, Dutch, French, Irish, Greek
    Country: USA - Florida



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anton, Bear's den View Post
    hahaha I see hysteria in comments of our Anglo-Saxon "friends" - sign that Vlad once again is doing right thing .

    Long live the people of 84th Crimean federal subject! Homeland of RF Black Sea fleet, future tourist & Gardariki dissolute life capital
    Hysteria? I pretty much have only seen rational responses to the illegal and illegitimate referendum conducted by Russia, in order to "prove" to the world that the people of Crimes want to be part of Russia. In actuality, the majority people of Crimea don't want to be part of your corrupt, non-democratic, totalitarian, unstable, oppressive dictatorship. If Angela Merkel says that your leader is out of his mind, and that he is in his own world, that's pretty bad.

    Also, "Vlad" has never made done the right thing. He beat and cheated on his wife, invaded Georgia and now Ukraine, has supported corrupt dictatorships (like Russia), has given money and weapons to countries like Iran, Syria, North Korea, etc., and much more.

    Give it some time, and Russia will dissolve in a few years time. Mark my words, Russia will become the next Ukraine, or Syria; as soon as the people of Russia wake up, and revolt against their oppressors.

    Also, if your country was so great, why are there millions are people fleeing it every year? How come many Russians now live in Europe, or America? Because they are better than Russia!

    And also, Russia is only going down from here. Their population is falling, as is their economy, and their influence. Russia will not be of importance; actually it already is not of importance to the international community.

    After Russia has a revolution in a few years, they'll probably join the EU and NATO afterward; which would be the best choice for Russia, as the EU is much more powerful, and has a larger population than Russia.

  19. #294
    martiko martiko's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-01-14
    Posts
    213

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-DF100
    MtDNA haplogroup
    T1a1

    Ethnic group
    european : basqueR1b/IberianI2b
    Country: France



    therefore it is only 97 % of favourable vote, in fact I had badly heard and I had understood 117 %.
    But it is because it is 3 %? Is what they are still alive, this kamikaze?
    It is not very believable that it am so many audacious people, 3 % there it is huge, in France there were no resistance fighters against fachistes.

  20. #295
    His Royal Highness Coolboygcp's Avatar
    Join Date
    11-08-13
    Location
    Floridé, Le Monde, Florida, The Earth, Florida, Die Erde
    Posts
    156


    Ethnic group
    English, Northern Irish, Scottish, Norwegian, Danish, Dutch, French, Irish, Greek
    Country: USA - Florida



    Quote Originally Posted by martiko View Post
    I know the Russian I know is that two of them are in France, they are afraid and prefer to continue to live in France for two in Russia they say that they have very fear of war and Putin, I think Putin will soon be as loved as Stalin in another era, but the Russian people they suffer from the economic crisis and fear an economic disaster for Russia: a cute taken from a barrel of crude oil.
    Well, the two Russians that you know in France are smart to stay in France; it is much better for them in France than Russia. I would be afraid to return to such a country like Russia, where the people are oppressed by a crazy dictator, where the economy is collapsing, and the population is decreasing as well.

    If I was in Russia, I would have a fear of war in Russia, as well; as it will come. Russia will probably have a civil war, and after that, the Russia people will be free. Russia is also heading towards an economic disaster, as you already said.

    What did you think of Russia, in your travel in Russia?

  21. #296
    His Royal Highness Coolboygcp's Avatar
    Join Date
    11-08-13
    Location
    Floridé, Le Monde, Florida, The Earth, Florida, Die Erde
    Posts
    156


    Ethnic group
    English, Northern Irish, Scottish, Norwegian, Danish, Dutch, French, Irish, Greek
    Country: USA - Florida



    Quote Originally Posted by martiko View Post
    therefore it is only 97 % of favourable vote, in fact I had badly heard and I had understood 117 %.
    But it is because it is 3 %? Is what they are still alive, this kamikaze?
    Does Putin think that people will believe these referendum results? Most people in Crimea don't want to be part of Russia, but Russia wants Crimea, and Russia/Putin doesn't care what Crimeans want or what the world wants.

  22. #297
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    14-10-11
    Posts
    1,040

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    Yes
    MtDNA haplogroup
    Yes

    Ethnic group
    German
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by Anton, Bear's den View Post
    hahaha I see hysteria in comments of our Anglo-Saxon "friends"
    Never challenge Kim Jong Cameron's 99.8% Falkland Islands referendum!

  23. #298
    Advisor LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,295

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Now when Crimea is Russian it opens a flood gate for all Russian Tatars to migrate there without passports or visas. In 20 years there will be more Tatars than others. With first opportunity they will demand a referendum for independence. There is still a chance for first Tatar state in the future. Especially if Russia sucks economically for a long time.

  24. #299
    Advisor LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,295

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    The last order of Russian Crimea is to get rid of Ukrainian troops. What will Putin do?

    1. Surround them and do nothing till Ukrainians are bored and hungry and go home.
    2. Because Ukrainians are playing passive, Russians will get into bases unopposed and force them to get into transports and move them out.
    3. Ukraine will (wisely) move troops to Ukraine next few days not to give Putin any opportunity of conflict and further invasions.
    4. Russians vigilantes will attack Ukrainian bases in their patriotic fight with "occupiers". It happened today on small scale. Ukrainians fight back, and next Crimean war starts. Small and short this time, unless muslim Tatars and Ukrainians will join the effort.

    I'll pick 1st or 3rd option, less likely is 2nd and even less 4th.

  25. #300
    Advisor LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,295

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    The last order of Russian Crimea is to get rid of Ukrainian troops. What will Putin do?

    1. Surround them and do nothing till Ukrainians are bored and hungry and go home.
    2. Because Ukrainians are playing passive, Russians will get into bases unopposed and force them to get into transports and move them out.
    3. Ukraine will (wisely) move troops to Ukraine next few days not to give Putin any opportunity of conflict and further invasions.
    4. Russians vigilantes will attack Ukrainian bases in their patriotic fight with "occupiers". It happened today on small scale. Ukrainians fight back, and next Crimean war starts. Small and short this time, unless muslim Tatars and Ukrainians will join the effort.

    I'll pick 1st or 3rd option, less likely is 2nd and even less 4th.
    Looks like Russians going for option 2. It is very risky and might turn into a battle with many killed. From TV news I'm not sure if this is action done by Russian military or local Russian ethnic militia? If militia then I'm not sure why Putin allows it? Last thing he needs is to kill Ukrainians. Not much to gain if any, but lose a lot.

Page 12 of 43 FirstFirst ... 2101112131422 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •