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View Poll Results: The Future of Crimea

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  • Crimea is special and should become an independent country

    9 15.79%
  • Crimea belongs to Ukraine

    15 26.32%
  • Crimea should become Russian, because most population is Russian

    17 29.82%
  • Crimea should become first Tatar country, the longest residing ethnicity.

    10 17.54%
  • Crimea should be returned to Greece, the first official owner.

    6 10.53%
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Thread: Should Crimea be an independent country? (Russian-Ukrainian conflict)

  1. #376
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    Hey Ike, what do you think about Russians occupying government buildings in East Ukraine. Are they Russian agents and agitators sent by Putin or only local ethnic Russians?
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

  2. #377
    Regular Member Ike's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Dunno, I really don't care anymore to take this subject with ya. You know, nazists killed a lot of my family members but for mentioning them I'm implicitly labeled as paranoid, while you are mentioning a guy that died 60 years ago and cry-babying 'cause you didn't have a discoball, r'n'r and gay rights. No prob dude, think what you like ...

  3. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post
    Dunno, I really don't care anymore to take this subject with ya. You know, nazists killed a lot of my family members but for mentioning them I'm implicitly labeled as paranoid, while you are mentioning a guy that died 60 years ago and cry-babying 'cause you didn't have a discoball, r'n'r and gay rights. No prob dude, think what you like ...
    I think you are scared to go on a record.

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    I guess I will just leave this here, I sure hope it is fake but you never know.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/w...raine/7816951/

  5. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post
    Dunno, I really don't care anymore to take this subject with ya. You know, nazists killed a lot of my family members but for mentioning them I'm implicitly labeled as paranoid, while you are mentioning a guy that died 60 years ago and cry-babying 'cause you didn't have a discoball, r'n'r and gay rights. No prob dude, think what you like ...
    what you say is irrelevant, I do not know if your father and mother are killed by the Nazis, so I wonder quege have, you drooling like an old worn azvec your disk. Pace the Nazis razed the city of my parents I have an excuse to do evil around me against the innocent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Good summary of the Russian Model. ...and don't dare to teach them, lol.
    I must say that the Russians an excuse for aggression paranoid by comparing them to the German that the Germans had voted for Hitler; Russian do not vote they elect.

  7. #382
    Regular Member Ike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    I think you are scared to go on a record.
    Ok then, for the record:

    1. The war in Ukraine is the last thing Russians need. It would undermine their political agenda, drive unwanted attention and foreign military forces near their borders, make the whole region unstable, worsen economic relations with...
    2. EU which doesn't need the war for that same reason at this moment.
    3. It is also the last thing Ukrainians want. They are perfectly aware that they stand no chance in real conflict with Russian, and that they would only end up in misery, devastation. Not to mention that they don't want to fight with their cousins.

    4. So who's left ...





  8. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post

    4. So who's left ...
    And if you bothered to read international press not only Russian, you would have known that this was in response to similar Russian incident. Eye for an Eye sort of way.
    Russian jet's passes near U.S. ship in Black Sea 'provocative': Pentagon

    WASHINGTON Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:40pm EDT

    (Reuters) - A Russian fighter aircraft made repeated low-altitude, close-range passes near a U.S. ship in the Black Sea over the weekend, the Pentagon said on Monday, condemning the action at a time of heightened U.S.-Russian tensions over Ukraine.
    "This provocative and unprofessional Russian action is inconsistent with their national protocols and previous agreements on the professional interaction between our militaries," said Colonel Steve Warren, a Pentagon spokesman.
    Warren said a Russian Su-24 aircraft, or Fencer, made 12 passes at low altitude near the USS Donald Cook, a destroyer that has been in the Black Sea since April 10. It appeared to be unarmed, he told reporters.
    The incident lasted 90 minutes and took place on Saturday evening while the U.S. ship was conducting a patrol in international waters in the western Black Sea, Warren said. The ship is now in a Romanian port.
    The Russian plane, accompanied by another Fencer that did not fly close to the U.S. ship, did not respond to multiple attempts by the Donald Cook to communicate with its pilot, he said.
    Pentagon officials have not yet discussed the incident with the Russian government, Warren said.
    Tensions have grown between Moscow and Washington in recent weeks over the situation in Ukraine, where pro-Russian separatists on Monday ignored an ultimatum to leave occupied government buildings and another group of rebels attacked a police headquarters.
    Warren said the U.S. ship was not in danger during Saturday's incident.
    "I would have difficulty believing that two Russian pilots on their own would choose to take such an action," Warren said.
    "We've seen the Russians conduct themselves unprofessionally and in violation of international norms in Ukraine now for several months," he said. "These continued acts of provocations and unprofessionalism do nothing to de-escalate the situation in Ukraine."
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A3D15Q20140414


    1. The war in Ukraine is the last thing Russians need. It would undermine their political agenda, drive unwanted attention and foreign military forces near their borders, make the whole region unstable, worsen economic relations with...

    Sure, everybody likes building empire the peaceful way. But if it can't be done peacefully Putin is known to send troops. Now the world is watching if he has guts to "liberate" Ukrainians and "protect" Russians in East Ukraine. I think you've read the survey about 80% Russians dreaming about Russian empire again. Putin's politics and strategic moves are in line with sentiments and wishes of people who has chosen him as a president.

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    Ideally it would be independent but having it be a puppet of UE or Russia would probably be its destiny. May as well let it go back to Russia.

  10. #385
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    @LeBrok You didn't read carefully. That was satire for this.
    Americans start panicking as soon as they see Russians near their continent, but they think it's OK to cruise inside the Black Sea area and Russian naval base.

  11. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristocephalic View Post
    Ideally it would be independent but having it be a puppet of UE or Russia would probably be its destiny. May as well let it go back to Russia.
    So is it better to be a puppet of UE or a puppet of Russia?

  12. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post
    @LeBrok You didn't read carefully. That was satire for this.
    Americans start panicking as soon as they see Russians near their continent, but they think it's OK to cruise inside the Black Sea area and Russian naval base.
    I'm not sure how you figured that US is panicking and Russia is not?

  13. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElHorsto View Post

    Otherwise Russian "freedom fighters" should be send to Russia.
    Sounds like ethnic cleansing.
    
    It would be only applied to Russian ethnic armed militiamen who advocates Ukraine to be take over by a foreign country, Russia. Don't you think it is understandable?

    I'm sure you would agree if (hypothetically) Turks' militiamen took over one of German cities and would want to separate from Germany and join Turkey.

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    Russia is already feeling consequences of it's military actions in Ukraine. Capital money is leaving russia, production is slowing down, people don't spend much, and the recession is imminent.
    It might be the beginning of an end for Putin. Surely he will soon ask Russians for more sacrifices for Mother Russia and the New Empire. I wonder how patients Russians will be with Putin during economic recession.
    If he enters his troops into Western Ukraine it would mean more sanctions, bigger economic mess and more severe recession. Looks like Russian economy is much weaker than expected, especially by nationalistic Russians like Anton. America has sneezed and Russia has caught the cold.

    The threat of economic sanctions from the European Union and the United States has already prompted a massive capital outflow from Russia in the first three months of the year.
    But even before the crisis erupted, Russian growth was starting to slow due to internal problems, such as slowing consumer spending, sagging investment and weakening demand for its energy exports.
    Finance Minister Anton Siluanov warned this week that Russia's economy may not expand at all in 2014.
    His counterpart at the economy ministry, Alexei Ulyukaev, then revealed that the Russian economy contracted around 0.5 percent in the first three months of the year, compared to the fourth quarter of 2013.
    That makes it increasingly likely that Russia will sink into recession this year, which is defined as two consecutive quarters of shrinking economic output.
    In an unusually frank public assessment from a Russian minister, Siluanov said Russia was facing the toughest economic conditions since 2009, when it went into a deep slowdown.
    The uncertainty created by Ukraine crisis has prompted a further spike in Russia's already haemorrhaging net capital outflows, which doubled from a year earlier to $50.6 billion in the first quarter.
    It also faces long-term structural problems, including a weak private sector in a state-dominated economy, low labour productivity and dangerous dependence on energy exports, which are now cruelly exposed.
    "The economic situation has become even more strained and internal factors have been exacerbated by a high level of uncertainty on currency and financial markets, serious capital flight, an unreadiness by investors to take decisions in this acute international situation," Ulyukaev said.
    Capital Economics pointed to weakening growth in industrial production and retail sales in the first quarter, which they said paints an increasingly "bleak" outlook for the country.
    A slump in the Russian ruble, which plummeted to a record low against the dollar and euro on March 3 after Moscow voted to allow Putin to send troops into Ukraine, could also fuel inflation, they warned.
    http://articles.economictimes.indiat...anton-siluanov

  15. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    I'm not sure how you figured that US is panicking and Russia is not?
    Who said it is not? It is. It's latest moves show it clearly.

    In fact if I was Putin I'd already have ground forces on every ex-Soviet republic. He is being too soft, because he's too much concerned about feelings of Lithuanians, Estonians and Kazakhs...
    This way he is endangering the whole world. You can't play soft with the aggressors, they only come back for more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post
    Who said it is not? It is. It's latest moves show it clearly.

    In fact if I was Putin I'd already have ground forces on every ex-Soviet republic.

    He is being too soft, because he's too much concerned about feelings of Lithuanians, Estonians and Kazakhs...
    This way he is endangering the whole world. You can't play soft with the aggressors, they only come back for more.
    And you would destroy fragile Russian economy. Unlike you Putin can see this and goes slow, calculating if he can afford every step. He wants to be re-elected, you don't.


    You can't play soft with the aggressors, they only come back for more
    You're right. They've already taken Crimea and getting ready for Eastern Ukraine. International community needs to stand up to this aggressor.

  17. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    And you would destroy fragile Russian economy. Unlike you Putin can see this and goes slow, calculating if he can afford every step. He wants to be re-elected, you don't.
    Who'd care about economy, when some creeps are creeping in with nuclear warheads at your state border?

    You're right. They've already taken Crimea and getting ready for Eastern Ukraine. International community needs to stand up to this aggressor.
    So now the will of the majority does not count? It's democracy, but only till you say so.
    Venice, California, Crimea, Catalonia - no democracy for them. It seems that democracy is just a story for an ex-communist countries that are not under Western control :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post
    Who'd care about economy, when some creeps are creeping in with nuclear warheads at your state border?



    So now the will of the majority does not count? It's democracy, but only till you say so.
    Venice, California, Crimea, Catalonia - no democracy for them. It seems that democracy is just a story for an ex-communist countries that are not under Western control :)
    Bro, Mordor glad to see Isengard resisting. Victory will be ours! Those hobbits don't have chance

    http://www.vmestepobedim.org/wp-cont...%BE%D1%801.jpg

    http://img0.joyreactor.cc/pics/post/...BD-601789.jpeg

    For Lebrok I am already have a plane ticket to Smolensk

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    Shocking moment Ukrainian politician is mobbed by furious crowd hours before being abducted and 'tortured to death' by pro-Russian militia

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ian-river.html
    So much talk about Ukrainian Nazi, and look who behaves like one. Nazi methods by Russian ethnics, or perhaps Russian commando team.

  20. #395
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    So much talk?! No, there was no talk about Ukrainian nazi movement and their sponsors. You didn't allow it, if you remember?

    It's interesting that these guys have German flag emblems:


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post
    So much talk?! No, there was no talk about Ukrainian nazi movement and their sponsors. You didn't allow it, if you remember?

    It's interesting that these guys have German flag emblems:

    Yes, it is logical Germany sent their troops to start Russian Ukrainian war. That's how they can sell more BMWs!

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    Ukraine hits back turning water supply off for Crimea.


    http://en.itar-tass.com/world/729666

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Russian government agency revealed that turnout in Crimean referendum was about 30%-60% and only half of it (15%-30%) voted for joining Russia.
    Sources:
    1. Washington Post
    2. Forbes

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    Quote Originally Posted by matbir View Post
    Russian government agency revealed that turnout in Crimean referendum was about 30%-60% and only half of it (15%-30%) voted for joining Russia.
    Sources:
    1. Washington Post
    2. Forbes
    It makes far more sense. We see "justice" and "fairness" Soviet/KGB style again.

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    Supposedly Putin promised to withdraw his troops from Ukrainian borders. Doesn't this mean he will not "support by invasion" russian minorities in Ukraine? Are sanctions having a desired effect or he's playing Putin's game of deception?

    Personally I think there must be a strong opposition of powerful oligarchs to invasion, and Putin is trying to make them happy at the moment.
    I'm sure he would love to invade Ukraine and annex western parts, but he realizes the consequences of such action will becoming too painful for Russia to justify. They would have 10 million or so new citizens to support from oil money at the time when Russian economy is stressed by sanctions and fleeting investment capital. Plus strong NATO presence at its borders and Europe buying gas and oil elsewhere, and lost revenue for Russia.
    I guess it is not worth it for Putin and oligarchs.

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