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View Poll Results: The Future of Crimea

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  • Crimea is special and should become an independent country

    9 16.07%
  • Crimea belongs to Ukraine

    15 26.79%
  • Crimea should become Russian, because most population is Russian

    16 28.57%
  • Crimea should become first Tatar country, the longest residing ethnicity.

    10 17.86%
  • Crimea should be returned to Greece, the first official owner.

    6 10.71%
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Thread: Should Crimea be an independent country? (Russian-Ukrainian conflict)

  1. #826
    Regular Member Ike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Interesting, I thought you love and thrive on pain, rape, murders and perversion.
    Nope, but I feel right when mass murderers and traitors get what they deserve.
    Perversions and rape fall into your emotional domain. I don't have any problem discussing it, and you have to deal with those things yourself, and make yourself endurable enough to make a decent conversation out of it.

  2. #827
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    Ike, what are you telling there?
    It was not because of mr Putin attacking Cechenia that a group of Chechens and Ingush terrorists took a school?
    From what I am hearing at news it was not told anything about the fact that people there were Chechens ,in the news were told that one of the terrorists was black...
    There,386 people died. And Russian forces I do not know how careful were when attacking terrorists there.
    After,one of the journalists that was criticizing mr Putin for this,died assassinated.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Politkovskaya
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_..._the_gymnasium
    Sorry,but I would not want to have a leader as Vladimir Putin to put me in danger,because of his imperialist ambitions.
    When a leader starts to raise an empire,both his average citizens and the conquered nations are suffering,for what,for the leader vain glory?
    And for the protegees of the leader to live a very good life,by exploiting others?
    If I do remember Stalin,yes,USSR was doing good,from economical point of view,but mr Stalin was ruling by terror,people were afraid,if I do a small mistake at job,I will end in prison,if I comment something that is not proper,I will end in prison and so on.
    Now mr Putin wants to become the leader of Russia for life and I do not see that he has too light-methods to rule Russia.
    Why in Russia is not limited by law ,how many years someone can be a president?
    For example,in Romania,someone can be president for maximum 10 years,2 mandates.
    I am not talking here about Russians being bad guys,I am talking about leaders like Stalin,or Putin,which started to follow Stalin,as he rules Russia.....
    Which leaders I do not like how they are ruling by terror and by using force a lot,having a very militaristic way of viewing things.

  3. #828
    Regular Member Ike's Avatar
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    I can't care for Mr. Putin or his theoretical imperialistic ambitions, when I have experienced the worst imperialistic behavior from the organization of people that would like to bring him down.
    So far Putin has done absolutely nothing for me, and he still leads 47:0, so you can imagine what my opinion about the other side is.

  4. #829
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post
    I can't care for Mr. Putin or his theoretical imperialistic ambitions, when I have experienced the worst imperialistic behavior from the organization of people that would like to bring him down.
    So far Putin has done absolutely nothing for me, and he still leads 47:0, so you can imagine what my opinion about the other side is.
    No one tries to bring Putin down.
    Please go read a little history,Stalin also thought others are trying to get his place,same happened to Ivan the Terrible,same happens now to mr Putin.
    Ivan the Terrible ordered the mass killing of boyars from Novgorod,thinking they want to defect to the enemy,killed his own son,accusing him of rebellion...
    After striking his son,Ivan started to repent,but was too late,his son died later.
    Wonder how many people were killed because Stalin thought they are thinking to become supreme leaders of USSR instead of him?
    Is Putin who wants to become the world leader, to expand his empire,I understand that it was a petition to White House to give back Alaska to Russia.
    Is not Putin behind that?
    Or what Putin fans were posting with "I am calling Alaska Ice Crimea"?
    Do you think most people from Alaska would want to join Russia?
    I doubt.
    Sorry,but I like the freedom of speech,did you see anyone in US to have his wealth taken or worse,being killed for criticizing Obama or Bush or Clinton?
    I did not see such a thing.
    As for weird theories such as "CIA is behind 2001" no one brought any real proofs for that.
    Putin has lots of propaganda,guess he also invests lots of $ in it,that is the thing I am seeing.

  5. #830
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    I think Europe has turned the page,

    in Welt am Sonntag, Ioannes Claudius Juncker seems to seek for a EU army against Russia,

    well I do not know what to say,

    we can not protect EU from Turkey (Cyprus), from IS, terrorists etc but we can invade Russia!!!
    reminds me the old Blietzkrieg tactics,

    any opinion on that, maybe I understood it wrong, but i doupt

    it seems Central East Europe will never relief either ftom West ( Germans) either from East (Russians)

    and as always, Balkans, WW1 started there, WW2 fate was judged there, Lets see,


    situation is more serious. so the 'parrots' must be realized on what the say
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  6. #831
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post

    we can not protect EU from Turkey (Cyprus), from IS, terrorists etc but we can invade Russia!!!
    reminds me the old Blietzkrieg tactics,
    Thumbs up for that. Yes, it is ridiculous.

  7. #832
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    I think Europe has turned the page,

    in Welt am Sonntag, Ioannes Claudius Juncker seems to seek for a EU army against Russia,

    well I do not know what to say,

    we can not protect EU from Turkey (Cyprus), from IS, terrorists etc but we can invade Russia!!!
    reminds me the old Blietzkrieg tactics,
    A little far fetched Yetos. We are bombing Deash and support allays with military equipment. But we yet to extend such commitments to Ukraine. Not mentioning that nobody is even contemplating to invade Russia.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

  8. #833
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I think that Crimea should be returned to Greece, who clearly has been its first official owner.

  9. #834
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgonzola View Post
    I think that Crimea should be returned to Greece, who clearly has been its first official owner.
    I am starting to think that would be indeed best to put Crimea and Greece in same state, if Greece also agrees.
    In this case Crimea will join EU, Greece will guarantee a nice treatment to all people there.
    Russia should be left to keep their military base in Crimea and all will be happy.
    The population in Crimea is very diverse from an ethnical point of view,so this is best to give Crimea to Greece or let them be autonomous.

  10. #835
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    I think if they joined EU, they wouldn't need to belong to another country.
    I also think that giving a 100 years, most countries will disintegrate into autonomous smaller provinces, based on local cultural and economic functions, and will exist as such within EU.

  11. #836
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    I was tro_lling when I said that Russia should keep their military base in Crimea.
    Now my serious opinion,Russia should not keep their military base from Crimea,what is the purpose of a Russia military base in Crimea,to threaten Romania,Bulgaria and Turkey?
    Since I do not see any others NATO members which have shores to Black Sea,than Romania,Bulgaria and Turkey.
    As for Crimea joining Greece,I was half serious.
    Anyway,is much better to give Crimea to Greece than to let Crimea to Russia.
    Now,my serious opinion about Crimea is that it should be autonomous and if Russia is taking their weapons from there,they have a great touristic potential.
    If I remember right US and UK signed a treaty that they guarantee the territorial integrity of Ukraine,including Crimea.
    And Russia signed also.
    Here is that treaty:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapes...ity_Assurances
    Ukraine agreed to renounce their nuclear weapons,by having its territorial integrity guaranteed by Russia,US and UK.
    So here is the big problem with Putin annexing Crimea and sending mercenaries to Eastern Ukraine,Russia signed that it guarantees Ukraine borders but now Russia is taking parts from Ukraine?

  12. #837
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    Now,so people would know,the treaty signed in 1994 by US,UK and Russia said ,as a resume, these:
    "According to the memorandum, Russia, the U.S., and the UK confirmed, in recognition of Ukraine becoming party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and in effect abandoning its nuclear arsenal to Russia, that they would:

    1. Respect Ukrainian independence and sovereignty within its existing borders.
    2. Refrain from the threat or use of force against Ukraine.
    3. Refrain from using economic pressure on Ukraine in order to influence its politics.
    4. Seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, "if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used".
    5. Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against Ukraine.
    6. Consult with one another if questions arise regarding these commitments.[13][14]"

  13. #838
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    my friends Crimea can not join Greece, although has a respectable Greek minority,
    cause the same day Turkey will invade to create another state there like in Cyprus in order to save the remnants of the Golden Horde

    the Ukraine problem is more than political, it holds even before october 1918,

    we discuss like diplomats, but are we? or we are humans?

  14. #839
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    my friends Crimea can not join Greece, although has a respectable Greek minority,
    cause the same day Turkey will invade to create another state there like in Cyprus in order to save the remnants of the Golden Horde

    the Ukraine problem is more than political, it holds even before october 1918,

    we discuss like diplomats, but are we? or we are humans?
    Talking like humans,Russia was paying a lot of $ to Ukraine,as rent for the military base in Crimea.
    And Crimea was bringing nice profits from tourism.
    Talking like humans,why should people from Bucharest live under terror of Putin submarines from Crimea base?
    From Crimea base till Romanian Black Sea shore is a very short distance,something like 400km (measured on Google maps). From Romanian Black Sea shore till
    Bucharest are 200km.
    In straight like,as you can calculate are about 600km .
    http://www.brookings.edu/research/op...response-pifer
    http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/...215-story.html
    Guess which large cities from NATO can Russia threaten from Crimea with Iskander-m which has a range of about 500km.
    Bucharest,Iasi,Constanta and cities from Turkey.

  15. #840
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    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    Talking like humans,Russia was paying a lot of $ to Ukraine,as rent for the military base in Crimea.
    And Crimea was bringing nice profits from tourism.
    Talking like humans,why should people from Bucharest live under terror of Putin submarines from Crimea base?
    From Crimea base till Romanian Black Sea shore is a very short distance,something like 400km (measured on Google maps). From Romanian Black Sea shore till
    Bucharest are 200km.
    In straight like,as you can calculate are about 600km .
    http://www.brookings.edu/research/op...response-pifer
    http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/...215-story.html
    Guess which large cities from NATO can Russia threaten from Crimea with Iskander-m which has a range of about 500km.
    Bucharest,Iasi,Constanta and cities from Turkey.
    According the independence of Cyprus
    Greece UK and Turkey should guaranty the aytonomy and indepence of Cyprus,
    yet the NATO (US/CIA) dictatorship put a dictator, and then a second one who overlap the first to make an effort to kill Cyprus president,
    and then Turkey invaded and still today occupies 1/3 to 1/2 of island,
    what Uk did?
    and what NATO did?
    besides even from the times of Greek revolt for indepence Russia did not tend to occupy Romania,
    the after WW2 dictatorship in Romania is another case,
    but since you are Romanian, I am expecting to discuss about Moldova and Hyperdneisteria than Crimaia,
    yet which you wanted to be president of Russia?
    Putin? or Abramovich?

    the Ukraine's sauvereignity is not threaten neither by Russians, neither by EU or Germans, but from the politicians who follow them, and driven them to civil war

    It was a crime in Cyprus,
    It is a crime in Kossovo,
    It is a crime in Moldova,
    lets not make another crime in the Ukraine in the name of sauvereign of land borders and send UN to keep peace, in order not to change borders,
    Diplomacy is to solve problems, not to create,
    As for Romania and Russia?
    that is the bad to have a strong neighbor


    now tell me,
    do you believe that Romania is in danger? with or with out NATO bases?

  16. #841
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post

    the Ukraine's sauvereignity is not threaten neither by Russians, neither by EU or Germans, but from the politicians who follow them, and driven them to civil war
    Who took Crimea, a territory which belonged to Ukraine, away?
    Are Russian tanks in Donbass, the province of Ukraine?
    Did Putin mention how fast russian tanks can be in Kiev?

  17. #842
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Who took Crimea, a territory which belonged to Ukraine, away?
    Are Russian tanks in Donbass, the province of Ukraine?
    Did Putin mention how fast russian tanks can be in Kiev?


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea


    Crimea—or the
    Tauric Peninsula, as it was formerly known—has historically been at the boundary between the classical world and the Pontic-Caspian steppe. Its southern fringe was colonised by the ancient Greeks, the ancient Persians, the ancient Romans, the Byzantine Empire, the Genoese and the Ottoman Empire, while at the same time its interior was occupied by a changing cast of invading steppe nomads, such as the Cimmerians, Scythians, Sarmatians, Goths, Alans, Bulgars, Huns, Khazars, Kipchaks, and the Golden Horde. Crimea and adjacent territories were united in the Crimean Khanate during the 15th to 18th century before falling to the Russian Empire and being included into the Russian Taurida Governorate in 1802.



    Ukrainian control 1954–2014

    In 1954, by an internal political action by Communist Party General Secretary Nikita Khrushchev, it became a territory of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic within the Soviet Union.[17] In 1991, it became part of independent Ukraine as the Autonomous Republic of Crimea.


    Better ask your shelf who gave sauvereign of Kremnoi to Ukraine!!!!!

  18. #843
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea


    Crimea—or the
    Tauric Peninsula, as it was formerly known—has historically been at the boundary between the classical world and the Pontic-Caspian steppe. Its southern fringe was colonised by the ancient Greeks, the ancient Persians, the ancient Romans, the Byzantine Empire, the Genoese and the Ottoman Empire, while at the same time its interior was occupied by a changing cast of invading steppe nomads, such as the Cimmerians, Scythians, Sarmatians, Goths, Alans, Bulgars, Huns, Khazars, Kipchaks, and the Golden Horde. Crimea and adjacent territories were united in the Crimean Khanate during the 15th to 18th century before falling to the Russian Empire and being included into the Russian Taurida Governorate in 1802.



    Ukrainian control 1954–2014

    In 1954, by an internal political action by Communist Party General Secretary Nikita Khrushchev, it became a territory of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic within the Soviet Union.[17] In 1991, it became part of independent Ukraine as the Autonomous Republic of Crimea.


    Better ask your shelf who gave sauvereign of Kremnoi to Ukraine!!!!!
    Crimea was never a sovereign country. It was always part of other countries.

    Secondly, I was pointing to Russian aggression against Ukraine, in response to your claim:

    Originally Posted by Yetos

    the Ukraine's sauvereignity is not threaten neither by Russians, neither by EU or Germans, but from the politicians who follow them, and driven them to civil war

  19. #844
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Crimea was never a sovereign country. It was always part of other countries.

    Secondly, I was pointing to Russian aggression against Ukraine, in response to your claim:
    Crimea is hammer, the castle of all powers that passed from there,
    yet manage to assimilate from ancient to medieval to modern populations,
    but its fate to be a base of someone,
    like Cyprus, like Malta, like Gibraltar, Hong Kong, like Falkland islands etc,

    an autonomous Crimea can stand only if allows a 'Big' one to have naval/military bases there.
    I am tired with borders, In EU we cancel them, why should we care about the borders of Ukraine and slain people in acivil war?

    Besides in WW2 the famous German airplanes messerschmit used rolls royce kstrel engine
    in today's Ukraine's civil inner stragle, gas and oil pass through sauvereign!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post

    Besides in WW2 the famous German airplanes messerschmit used rolls royce kstrel engine
    Are you sure British company Rolls Royce produced engines for German airplanes during WW2?

    The first prototype (Versuchsflugzeug 1 or V1), with civilian registration D-IABI, was completed by May 1935, but the new German engines were not yet ready. In order to get the "R III" designs into the air, the RLM acquired four Rolls-Royce Kestrel VI engines by trading Rolls-Royce a Heinkel He 70 Blitz for use as an engine test-bed.[nb 2] Messerschmitt received two of these engines and adapted the engine mounts of V1 to take the V-12 engine upright. V1 made its maiden flight at the end of May 1935 at the airfield located in the southernmost Augsburg neighborhood of Haunstetten, piloted by Hans-Dietrich "Bubi" Knoetzsch. After four months of flight testing, the aircraft was delivered in September to the Luftwaffe's central test centre at the Erprobungsstelle Rechlin to take part in the design competition.
    In the late summer of 1935, the first Jumo engines became available so V2 was completed in October using the 449 kW (600 hp) Jumo 210A engine. V3 followed, the first to be mounted with guns, but it did not fly until May 1936 due to a delay in procuring another Jumo 210 engine.
    The primary engines used were the Daimler-Benz DB 601 and DB 605, though the Junkers Jumo 210 powered most of the pre-war variants.

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    2 members found this post helpful.

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    Russian propaganda all the time is trying to convince the world public opinion that Ukrainian army and MIA battalions are not capable of suppressing rebellion of miners and farmers.
    Here you have the maps showing how far Ukrainian forces were pushed to the north and west from 19.08.2014 to 12.03.2015:
    ukr 19.08.jpg
    ukr 12.03.jpg
    But anyone who wants to know what is going on after checking sequence of events will realize that it is impossible to Donieck miners to dig up tunnel from Donieck to Novoazovsk big enough let tanks through So where the tanks came from....

    Look at Russia's ghost army reportage:

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    I don't mind if referendum in any country is made, under classical guidelines and international overseeing. If Scotts or Catalans want to be independent or Crimeans or Donbass to join Russia it is FINE with me. But it has to be done right in honest and transparent manners. This did not happen in Crimea. This referendum is invalid.
    I'm sure if it was done in proper way, Crimea would be Russian legally, and we wouldn't have had this discussion.
    I tried to stay away from this disgusting time-consuming thread, but it is hard when I accidentally come across all this nonsense here.

    "For their part, Crimeans seem content with their annexation by Russia. Overwhelming majorities say the March 16th referendum was free and fair (91%) and that the government in Kyiv ought to recognize the results of the vote (88%).
    "
    http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/05/08/...n-one-country/

    But of course they are all manipulated by Putin's secret brainwash x-rays.

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    Crimea was not annexed by Russia,it was annexed by Putin.
    "Russia" means Putin and his gang that are terrorizing most people living in Russia.
    Look at that movie with "I am Russian occupant" that Rogozin post on his twitter account,how come from 150 million Russians,from which most likely at least 30-40 millions have internet access only about 111k liked the video on youtube?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T65SwzHAbes
    The video has more than 5 million viewers.
    As already written,two demented persons made Russia so big:
    Ivan the Terrible and Stalin.
    At both orders were killed also lots of Russians,besides people of other ethnicities.
    They were not happy with how many people they had to keep under terror and fear so they think to extend their "great and wise leadership" to other people ,so those also would feel the happiness and privilege to be lead by some blood thirsty tyrants.
    What a Russian from Bessarabia told and is also cleared in this video,Putin has a "victory politics" he thinks he is some kind of great warrior and his mercenaries are some kind of great army.
    See what declaration he gave,that he will occupy "....large territory in Europe" if he wants.
    If Obama would have done same as Putin does and would have sent as "volunteers" some US snipers from US marine to Ukraine,to fight with Ukraine army,you would have seen how different things would have been.
    Or if US would send 9-10 F16 and some instructors to Ukraine army,to teach Ukraine army pilots how to fly these jets,see what "rebels" will do than.
    It is not worth to get involved in East Ukraine,a revolution will start soon in Russia and Putin will get in jail,if not killed by the crowds.
    Putin managed to make the most wealthy state from the world,as resources,bankrupt.
    Russia is like this,because 85% of their exports is oil and since oil price dropped ,Russia economy has a huge problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matbir View Post

    Look at Russia's ghost army reportage:
    What a great piece of documentary, thanks for posting matbir. We are going to hear more and more stories about killed and wounded soldiers, till Putin can't hide it no more.

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