Politics Should Crimea be an independent country? (Russian-Ukrainian conflict)

Fascist?
That is just ridicules, stop your soviet propaganda, and look what will be next. The only real scenario is that Putin will establish Republic of Crimea totaly dependent of Russia, because no one will recognize it as legal government.
That scenario happened in 2008 in Georgia, nothing is new here, just long known Russian imperial agenda.




I am also concerned about nationalist sentiments of party Svoboda, but gladly they do not have prime minister.

You are absolutely not aware of the current situation in Ukraine.

Svoboda party and the government does not have power in the country, it's puppets.
Power in the country is located at
Right Sector (Pravyi Sektor) is a Ukrainian militant group consisting mostly of young men with right-wing, ultra right-wing, borderline fascist or neofascist views.
Speaking about his attitude towards non-Ukrainians, Yarosh referred to controversial WWII figure Stepan Bandera as a model. For those fighting with Right Sector "for Ukraine," Yarosh stated that they should be treated "as comrades." For those opposing "the Ukrainian people's national liberation struggle," Yarosh stated that they should be treated "in a hostile way.
Andriy Tarasenko in an interview stated, among other things, that territories of Poland like Przemysl should become part of Ukraine and that it should regain nuclear weapons
 
Fascist?
That is just ridicules, stop your soviet propaganda, and look what will be next. The only real scenario is that Putin will establish Republic of Crimea totaly dependent of Russia, because no one will recognize it as legal government.
That scenario happened in 2008 in Georgia, nothing is new here, just long known Russian imperial agenda.
I wouldn't bring in Georgia into this game. In my opinion Ossetians have a right for their own homeland. I am not saying this in any offense to Georgians since I like them but just even without the Ossetian territories there wouldn't be much difference because it is just a small part of Georgia and Georgia just like most countries in West Asia are not made upon ethnic but geopolitical/imperial borders.
 
Yanukovich has no chance in elections, after what happened in Kiev. No one mentally healthy would vote for man who allowed police to shot to the civilians.

Yanukovich won the latest electons legitimately. So, how would you feel if a "group of civilians" stumbled down to Warshaw and started shooting at the police, and forced your president that you elected out of the city?

With an experience I have in situations like these, I say that only mistake Yanaukovich made was not to shoot down all the terrorist. All of them together with their leaders should have been put to death. It's what any other democratic leader would do. He was elected by his people to a certain function, and it's his responsibility to defend the country and legal institutions from intruders.

Possible war is the price country may pay, for Yanaukovich not doing what he was supposed to do.
 
With an experience I have in situations like these, I say that only mistake Yanaukovich made was not to shoot down all the terrorist. All of them together with their leaders should have been put to death. It's what any other democratic leader would do. He was elected by his people to a certain function, and it's his responsibility to defend the country and legal institutions from intruders.
It is pretty much explanatory why you and people like you created so much mess, civil war, and war crimes in Yugoslavia, "shoot down all the terrorist". Did it help you to keep Yugoslavia together?
Yep, brand them terrorists, natzis and western vasals and kill them all. Your "political solutions" how to deal with unhappy and disillusioned citizens are astounding, worth of NKWD or KGB methods.
 
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Well I don't see any imperialism, the only thing what Russian Federation did is warned illegitimate Ukranian neo-nazi radical gangs at power that RF will not tolerate violence towards Russian community in Ukraine. The Crimea peoples will decide themselves it's furture on referendum scheduled for March 30.
...and Russian troops will make sure the referendum is honest...After all Russian Government is known by its transparency, honesty and caring for people.



I am afraid Anglo-Saxon family of countries as well as you Lebrok don't distinguish words "friend" & "vassal". The "Good" for you only the one who fulfills all your orders unquestioningly like a lapdog and bad any other who has their own opinion. You de-facto have only vassals & enemies on the borderline.
We are so at ease knowing that Putin and his "free" press are making sure you get the definitions right.
 
It is pretty much explanatory why you and people like you created so much mess, civil war, and war crimes in Yugoslavia, "shoot down all the terrorist". Did it help you to keep Yugoslavia together?
Sadly it did not happen. The federal government was disorganized, perpetrators were not persecuted, and when terrorist started attacking civilians, institutions and the army nobody had the guts to do what had to be done. Military had strict orders not to shoot anyone, and soldiers were not given ammunition. Reaction was not proper, and consequences were horrible.

Yep, brand them terrorists, natzis and western vasals and kill them all. Your "political solutions" how to deal with unhappy and disillusioned citizens are astounding, worth of NKWD or KGB methods.
If you like 'em so much, you can have them all. Please take em to your country, they are nice, civil an peaceful ;)
Pure democracy on it's finest. The good boy in the first photo has even got a EU peace symbol on his forearm :D
 
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when you press the trigger the ball goes and you can not catch it, that's the difference with words. And you can not rewind the film back.

100 Ukrainian civilians already killed by Russian soldiers in Kiev, it is not enough, you still thirsty?

The best stop everything but this is not possible because Putin has already invaded Tcetchennia, part of the Georgia threatens the Baltic countries and now it is the ukraine, Poland tomorrow or the Latvia?
A ball that I will not stop I know that.
I think that for me everything is said on this subject. Vco! do ctrieztchi.
 
when you press the trigger the ball goes and you can not catch it, that's the difference with words. And you can not rewind the film back.

100 Ukrainian civilians already killed by Russian soldiers in Kiev, it is not enough, you still thirsty?

The best stop everything but this is not possible because Putin has already invaded Tcetchennia, part of the Georgia threatens the Baltic countries and now it is the ukraine, Poland tomorrow or the Latvia?
A ball that I will not stop I know that.
I think that for me everything is said on this subject. Vco! do ctrieztchi.

What has got Putin to do with terrorist that are coming from EU to Ukraine to start a war?
 
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This is just madness. The people there on both sides are surely going through hell. But who is profiting from this? EU certainly not, they're not actively trying to add another poor satellite, after what happened with Greece.
 
What has got Putin to do with terrorist that are coming from EU to Ukraine to start a war?

I found your source of misinformation following photos.
Not found there, one photo showing Russian soldiers making use of their military weapons on the civilian population of the demonstrators in Kiev, but this is what we find there.


http://www.thesleuthjournal.com/western-manipulated-violence-ukraine/
http://www.thesleuthjournal.com/sleuth-journal/
http://www.thesleuthjournal.com/bil...ing-corporate-takeover-of-global-agriculture/

No comments
 
Russia is like the big bully in the schoolyard. Except, it is the big thug in the international community.

Russia cannot realise that the days of the Soviet Union are over. It's been 23 years, they are over. (Well with the Eurasian Union, they will be ushered in again with Russia, Kazakhstan, Belarus, etc)

They invaded Georgia, and installed two puppet states in Georgian land (South Ossetia, and Abkhazia). Now they have invaded the Ukraine, and it seems that instead of installing a puppet state, they want to reincorporate it into Russia. And they want to do this near the eve of 50 years of Crimea being Ukrainian.

I fear that this will turn into WW3. It seems that the EU and NATO will intervene, and they should. However, if they do, it will certainly turn into a huge war.

Some people try to play this down as Russia defending it's Black Sea Fleet. This is Russia try to take Crimea back.

The first settlers of Crimea were the Greeks. The Greeks should be given the Crime. They would govern it better, they would incorporate it into the European Union, and they would tolerate, and encourage diversity; both ethnic and linguistic.

However, I consider it unlikely that the Greeks would get the Crimea.

In such a case, then either the Tatars or the Ukrainians should be given/keep the Crimea. The Tatars were a majority for a very long time, and their presence only diminished because of the Soviet Union's policies towards them under Stalin. All Tatars should be offered residence in Crimea, and it should become the first Tatar state in modern times.

This scenario is possible, but will probably not happen (though the Greeks or the Tatars really deserve the Crimea as for the Greeks; it was their's first, and for the Tatars; it was their's the longest.)

If these two scenarios cannot happen, then the Ukrainians should keep the Crimea. I know that Russians are the linguistic majority in the Crimea. However, if given to Russia, the Crimean people's rights would be taken away, and they would become just another oblast. And if given independence, they would be like South Ossetia, or Belarus; a Russian puppet state. However, it is unlikely that the Russians will cede to Ukrainian demands that the Russians retreat. They have not ceded to EU, NATO, and American warnings and demands, so they will not cede to Ukrainian ones. Putin is an *******, he doesn't care what the Ukrainians want, or what The West wants, Putin doesn't even care about the Russian people. Putin cares about what Putin wants. So if the Russians don't retreat (which they won't), it is not likely that Ukraine will be able to regain Crimea by themselves, they would have to regain it by force with the help of NATO, EU, and/or the US.

At the moment Crimea is Russian, they have control of it. I hope that either the Greeks or the Tatars get Crimea, or that Ukraine regains control of the Crimea.

But about Putin.

Perhaps Putin does all of these things to express his anger, his anger for hiding his homosexuality. If he just came out of the closet, and embraced who he is, perhaps he would not act in this manner. We all now he's gay, he should just come out of the closet already! There isn't anything wrong with being gay!

If he came out, he would probably act like he does now, though I hope he would change.

But to answer the title of this thread, "Should Crimea be an independent country", I would say it should incorporated into Greece, or become an independent Tatar state. Otherwise, it should not get independence. (Also, if it was a Tatar state, it would probably align itself with Turkey, which would be better than with Russia, and if Turkey joins the EU, Crimea would probably join shortly after.)

Oh, and to Russians, the Slavs who call themselves "Soviets and "Yugoslavians" who have posted on this thread, you need to get unbrainwashed, they have many classes that can help you with that. Also, stop reading the Russian propaganda! Read factual, Western news such as the BBC!
 
This is just madness. The people there on both sides are surely going through hell. But who is profiting from this? EU certainly not, they're not actively trying to add another poor satellite, after what happened with Greece.

This wikipedia summary about this book from a polish-american could shed some light to the question.
 
Well I don't see any imperialism, the only thing what Russian Federation did is warned illegitimate Ukranian neo-nazi radical gangs at power that RF will not tolerate violence towards Russian community in Ukraine. The Crimea peoples will decide themselves it's furture on referendum scheduled for March 30.


I am afraid Anglo-Saxon family of countries as well as you Lebrok don't distinguish words "friend" & "vassal". The "Good" for you only the one who fulfills all your orders unquestioningly like a lapdog and bad any other who has their own opinion. You de-facto have only vassals & enemies on the borderline.
Ha Ha exactly the same expression as I would expect from Poles brainwashed in communist times. They are blind for Russian imperialist policy, and every misery and suffering in the world is caused by vampire-capitalists from USA and Western Europe.:LOL:

You are absolutely not aware of the current situation in Ukraine.

Svoboda party and the government does not have power in the country, it's puppets.
Power in the country is located at
Right Sector (Pravyi Sektor) is a Ukrainian militant group consisting mostly of young men with right-wing, ultra right-wing, borderline fascist or neofascist views.
Speaking about his attitude towards non-Ukrainians, Yarosh referred to controversial WWII figure Stepan Bandera as a model. For those fighting with Right Sector "for Ukraine," Yarosh stated that they should be treated "as comrades." For those opposing "the Ukrainian people's national liberation struggle," Yarosh stated that they should be treated "in a hostile way.
Andriy Tarasenko in an interview stated, among other things, that territories of Poland like Przemysl should become part of Ukraine and that it should regain nuclear weapons
Prawy Sektor is a group of people working in favor of Putin's policy they gave reasons to attack Ukraine and they gave reasons to stop Polish support for democratic changes in Ukraine. Who is taking advantage from this? Of course Putin!
So, in my opinion this extremist deserve be eliminated from political scene. Especially glorification of the butcher Stefan Bandera is the sign of their brainlessness. Yatseniuk is aware of this and doing his best to keep Ukraine as one country.
Yanukovich won the latest electons legitimately. So, how would you feel if a "group of civilians" stumbled down to Warshaw and started shooting at the police, and forced your president that you elected out of the city?

With an experience I have in situations like these, I say that only mistake Yanaukovich made was not to shoot down all the terrorist. All of them together with their leaders should have been put to death. It's what any other democratic leader would do. He was elected by his people to a certain function, and it's his responsibility to defend the country and legal institutions from intruders.

Possible war is the price country may pay, for Yanaukovich not doing what he was supposed to do.
First of all water cannons are the best way to stop protests especially in winter when temperature is -10C. But in Ukraine it is not the case, Yanukovich wasn’t able to stop the protests because in administration and in very influential oligarchs he had opposition. That is why for last four months inner conflict escalated in Ukraine. One more thing, Yanukovich deceived the public in case of his foreign policy and that made Ukrainians angry.
What has got Putin to do with terrorist that are coming from EU to Ukraine to start a war?
I thing “Prawy Sektor” is supported by Russian Federation. I just explained it to user Soket. Everything go along game theory.



Edit: Russian Federation attacks Ukraine to protect Russian minority, but nothing happened to them. So what is next? Maybe Time for Latvia where Russians have to pass Language exam to gain citizenship of Republic of Latvia? The Russian minority in this country make 26.9%. Should Latvians feel threatened?
 
But to answer the title of this thread, "Should Crimea be an independent country", I would say it should incorporated into Greece, or become an independent Tatar state. Otherwise, it should not get independence. (Also, if it was a Tatar state, it would probably align itself with Turkey, which would be better than with Russia, and if Turkey joins the EU, Crimea would probably join shortly after.)

Oh, and to Russians, the Slavs who call themselves "Soviets and "Yugoslavians" who have posted on this thread, you need to get unbrainwashed, they have many classes that can help you with that. Also, stop reading the Russian propaganda! Read factual, Western news such as the BBC!
LMAO, how old are you? It looks like that you don't know anything about what is going on around the Black Sea. Tatars came to Crimea as immigrants. They have nothing to do with Crimea. Also Turkey is occupying Cyprus (Greece) and Northern Kurdistan. As long as Turkey is occupying Cyprus and Northern Kurdistan Turkey will never join the EU. Also Turks are immigrants to the region like all other Tatars are. They don't belong in Europe.
 
I was born in the USSR, in Georgia. And also I was a 'Soviet' citizen. And I don't like the idea that the US (Western World + Jews) will be the only hegemony (super power) in the world. US is not better that the Russians. The Western World also measures with the double standard. If they were such a big democrats they would support Kurdistan against Islamic, Arabic and Turkic occupiers. The Western World is nothing but hypocrites. They’re not better than Russia. The US also attack whoever they want without asking Russia and China, like attacking Yougoslavia / Serbia (Kosovo)! Also, believe me, nobody can break Russia! Russia is to BIG. Napoleon tried, the Turks tried, the Persians tried, the Nazi-Germans tried, but nobody succeeded. Why can’t people take example out of this past. Why is Germany still trying to break Russia? The US betrayed Kurds big time. Americans and Europeans are a bunch of hypocrites. And that’s why as a Kurd I will not support US policy as long as they don’t change their attitude and become REAL democrats, by supporting nations that have a right for self-determination like Kurdistan! I don't like Russia but I don’t like the current (Middle Eastern) policy of America either!
 
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LeBrok said:
Last edited by LeBrok; Today at 04:44. Reason: This is not Russian or your propaganda board. Refrain from posting such material. You've crossed the line..

Ja wohl, mein Fuhrer.
 
Perhaps out of respect for the 100 victims of Kiev, we should close this topic
They did not speak, he crawled under fire killers.
So I propose that we close our mouths.
 
Well, whoever is playing with fire should accept that he/she can be caught by fire! If you don't want to burn by fire and become a 'victim' don't play with fire at all at the first place. What goes around comes around. Western Ukraine is (and will be) the poorest country in Europe. And if/when they split Ukraine in 2 parts, nobody in Europe will ever care about Western Ukraine at all. Western Ukraine has nothing. Why should Germany and the US give own money to Western Ukraine for nothing? Even a bankrupt Greece is more important than the 3rd world country like Western Ukraine...
 
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LMAO, how old are you? It looks like that you don't know anything about what is going on around the Black Sea. Tatars came to Crimea as immigrants. They have nothing to do with Crimea. Also Turkey is occupying Cyprus (Greece) and Northern Kurdistan. As long as Turkey is occupying Cyprus and Northern Kurdistan Turkey will never join the EU. Also Turks are immigrants to the region like all other Tatars are.

How do you suggest is the original ethnicity to give Crimea to them?


They don't belong in Europe.
What is your cut off date, 1,000 years or more, to be a rightful owner of a land? Perhaps Kurds should be kicked out off Middle East, after all they came there as immigrants at one time.
 
As long as the original native population does exist in the region the 'immigrants' will be always 'the immigrants'. Indo-European (Hellenic & Slavic) speaking people were in Crimea before the Turkic speaking Tatars and as long as Slavic language is spoken in Crimea, Turkic language will be always considered as language of the immigrants. Like on Cyprus Turkic will never be considered as the native language as long as Hellenic people do live on Cyprus.

Kurds came from nowhere. As far as I know Kurds are the OLDEST inhabitants of the ancient land of Kurdistan (South Eastern Taurus - Zagros mountains). Arabs (and other Semites) came to the region after Kurds. Turks came to region after Kurds etc.
 

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