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View Poll Results: The Future of Crimea

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  • Crimea is special and should become an independent country

    6 11.76%
  • Crimea belongs to Ukraine

    13 25.49%
  • Crimea should become Russian, because most population is Russian

    16 31.37%
  • Crimea should become first Tatar country, the longest residing ethnicity.

    10 19.61%
  • Crimea should be returned to Greece, the first official owner.

    6 11.76%
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Thread: Should Crimea be an independent country? (Russian-Ukrainian conflict)

  1. #1051
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    I can't decide. Generally I support Ukrainians, but if everyone is Russians then it seems like a better idea to let them go. However, Russia's actions were not right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinarid View Post
    I can't decide. Generally I support Ukrainians, but if everyone is Russians then it seems like a better idea to let them go. However, Russia's actions were not right.
    The referendum was held under the Russian occupation

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    Quote Originally Posted by Piro Ilir View Post
    The referendum was held under the Russian occupation
    After leting die to Ukrainian and forcing to Tatar to migration, guess who will win the referendum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Piro Ilir View Post
    The referendum was held under the Russian occupation
    This is true, but polls and a general consensus show that the vast majority of the inhabitants, especially the ethnic Russian majority, want to be part of Russia. That being said, I really do hate the idea of Russia going around and stealing territory from sovereign nations and bullying everyone into submission.

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    Aksyonov, the head of the Krim republic suggested to Kiev to consider parting with Krim as a step in true parting with the communist past and heritage.
    http://ria.ru/world/20160604/1442802343.html
    Heh-heh (eng.) Хе-хе (rus.)

    The captions say:
    - Leave us alone! We don't need communist holdovers!
    What the...?!
    - These are communist holdovers!




  6. #1056
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmonomad View Post
    Aksyonov, the head of the Krim republic suggested to Kiev to consider parting with Krim as a step in true parting with the communist past and heritage.
    http://ria.ru/world/20160604/1442802343.html
    Heh-heh (eng.) Хе-хе (rus.)

    The captions say:
    - Leave us alone! We don't need communist holdovers!
    What the...?!
    - These are communist holdovers!



    Not all of the territories that Russian nationalists want to "free" from Ukraine desire to be separated. I think only Crimea and part of Donetsk and Luhansk really show strong separatist tendencies, but other areas like Odessa, Kharkiv, Zaporizhia etc. are just Russian fantasies.

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    I lived in Zaporozhe for almost 2 years. My father worked as businessman there. Most of the people were Russian or pro-Russia.


    At least, in the early '80ies folks spoke Russian (and not 'Ukrainian') in Zaporozhe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    I lived in Zaporozhe for almost 2 years. My father worked as businessman there. Most of the people were Russian or pro-Russia.


    At least, in the early '80ies folks spoke Russian (and not 'Ukrainian') in Zaporozhe.
    Why do you have "Ukrainian" in single quotation marks? All linguists recognize it as a language.

    There is also a difference between favoring ties with Russia and then wanting to actually separate and join them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinarid View Post
    Not all of the territories that Russian nationalists want to "free" from Ukraine desire to be separated.
    Here is a bit of history how we Russians built administrative division, called Ukraina, for our own convinience.


    The blue part is called NovoRossiya for a good reason. My guess is the next one to collapse is the the green bit, so former Ukraina is collapsing in reverse.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dinarid View Post
    I think only Crimea and part of Donetsk and Luhansk really show strong separatist tendencies, but other areas like Odessa, Kharkiv, Zaporizhia etc. are just Russian fantasies.
    We highly value your opinion.

    Here is Odessa's governor Saakashvili (ex-president of Georgia (and a US patsy)) weeping about losing the region
    https://youtu.be/Nkpe06qRSX0


    I was about to post my traslation of this text from a ukrainist journo - typical


    but I found a publication better than I would write.
    http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/06/pro...-odessans.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinarid View Post
    Why do you have "Ukrainian" in single quotation marks? All linguists recognize it as a language.

    There is also a difference between favoring ties with Russia and then wanting to actually separate and join them.
    Yes, its developement as a separate language was propelled by commie regulation, when southern rural dialects of Eastern Slavic were elevated to status of language, as policy of fighting "GreatRussian imperial chauvinism". Even after forced adoption, forced convertion of identity to Ukrainian, it is still hardly usable for anything other than politics. Russian is used in techinical fields, where industries still survive. Politicians have trouble speaking, often forgetting words, because to this date standards are shifting. Quarter of a century ago I was capable of understanding it, because it remained what it was - a dialect of Eatern Slavic and centered around the type of speech of Poltava region. Now the standard, so to say, is the speak of Galichina (the green bit on the map). The main rule is to have words as dissimilar to Russian, as possible, which means replacing with mostly Polish, German, Yiddish, Hungarian, etc - in roughly that order.

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    No, it's quite obvious that Ukrainian was a language before communism. If Ukrainian is "hardly usable", then why are more young people speaking in it nowadays? I remember hearing that no one in Kiev speaks Ukrainian, but when I went there just last summer, I heard more conversations in Ukrainian than Russian. I believe the situation is changing quite rapidly. The first map you posted is easily debunked as propaganda. In 1654 we can see that this is a lie. Also, these territories did not reflect the actual ethnic composition of the land. The southeastern area was settled by Ukrainian colonists. The lands "annexed by Stalin" from Poland already had large Ukrainian populations except in some of the cities. And then there's this from Wikipedia:
    "According to the Russian Imperial Census of 1897, ethnic Ukrainians comprised 52.4% of the population of region, whilst ethnic Russians comprised 28.7%." with the source cited being "Freedom and Terror in the Donbas: A Ukrainian-Russian Borderland, 1870s–1990s." You should just show a map of Kievan Rus and its history, to be honest about the development of the Ukrainian people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmonomad View Post
    Yes, its developement as a separate language was propelled by commie regulation, when southern rural dialects of Eastern Slavic were elevated to status of language, as policy of fighting "GreatRussian imperial chauvinism". Even after forced adoption, forced convertion of identity to Ukrainian, it is still hardly usable for anything other than politics. Russian is used in techinical fields, where industries still survive. Politicians have trouble speaking, often forgetting words, because to this date standards are shifting. Quarter of a century ago I was capable of understanding it, because it remained what it was - a dialect of Eatern Slavic and centered around the type of speech of Poltava region. Now the standard, so to say, is the speak of Galichina (the green bit on the map). The main rule is to have words as dissimilar to Russian, as possible, which means replacing with mostly Polish, German, Yiddish, Hungarian, etc - in roughly that order.
    You had them in your camp and could have had a great friend. How did you manage to alienate these people and make them hate you so much?
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmonomad View Post
    Here is a bit of history how we Russians built administrative division, called Ukraina, for our own convinience.


    The blue part is called NovoRossiya for a good reason. My guess is the next one to collapse is the the green bit, so former Ukraina is collapsing in reverse.




    We highly value your opinion.

    Here is Odessa's governor Saakashvili (ex-president of Georgia (and a US patsy)) weeping about losing the region
    https://youtu.be/Nkpe06qRSX0


    I was about to post my traslation of this text from a ukrainist journo - typical


    but I found a publication better than I would write.
    http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/06/pro...-odessans.html
    I like data instead of propaganda. Here You have results of population census from 1897:
    Ukraine_ethnic_1897.jpg
    (Edit: Yellow is Ukrainian)
    Lots of ukrainian territory was annexed by Russia and stay ther even today (parts of Kursk and Voronezh oblasts).

    I have been in Odessa last summer. People that I've met there spoke russian but many times they emphasized that they are Europeans and Putin's tricks do not affect them.

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrain...s,_2015#Odessa

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia on the 2015 local elections
    In Odessa incumbent Mayor Gennadiy Trukhanov defeated Oleksandr Borovyk with 52.9% against 25.7% in the first round of the mayoral election

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    The Tatars claim to Crimea is no better than any Turkic claim anywhere outside of Central Asia / Mongolia. Greeks, Armenians, and other Indo-European peoples have inhabited the peninsula far before Turks even came into existence.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Crimea was a gift to Ukraine in 1954, i don't see how it's a problem today it belongs to Russia as 95% of Crimea's population voted to join Russia.

    It's well known that Stalin sent Tatars "back" to Siberia by force and even today many Turkic speaking minority have a hatred against Russians.
    What can we see today in the policy of Ukraine?

    - Corruption by the government and stealing money of it's citizens
    - A never ending dept made just by the need to sympathize with the West.
    - Hunger, the lowest quality of life compared to anywhere in Europe including Russia.
    - A puppet system which seems under the chains of US in all aspects.

    All this war made by the NATO under the flag of Ukraine has no point other than bringing down the already 3rd World quality of Ukraine and the against of Russian policy which is getting strong enough to manage it's own without the consolidation of US and NATO.
    Putin may be a criminal in terms of assassinating many of his political enemies but what could you except from a system being ruined by post Russian Jewish billionaires that escaped from Russia already but still funds movements to break down Russia. If anything Putin was one of the first man in the World to recognize the threats of a system being managed by foreign interest and puppet government and make the fist steps (successfully) to establish a strong and independent Russia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gstq98 View Post
    The Tatars claim to Crimea is no better than any Turkic claim anywhere outside of Central Asia / Mongolia. Greeks, Armenians, and other Indo-European peoples have inhabited the peninsula far before Turks even came into existence.
    Do you protect same perspective for Americas?

    European claim to Americas is no better than any European claim anywhere outside of Europe...

    According to your logic, we should give Crimea to Iranic people because of the Sarmatian/ Scythian history of lands.


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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Watch: 'Get out of Ukraine, Mr. Putin,' says Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko

    "Get out of Ukraine, Mr. Putin," Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko said on Tuesday.
    Poroshenko made the comments in an one-on-one interview with NBC News' Richard Engel, which was conducted two days after Russian forces created an international crisis by attacking and seizing three Ukrainian vessels that were trying to pass through the Kerch Strait, a narrow artery that connects the Black Sea to the Sea of Azov.
    The clash has fired up both sides in an already difficult relationship. Martial law is in force in parts of Ukraine, three ships and 12 sailors are still being held by Russia. And Poroshenko is warning that this isn't over yet.
    Watch the interview with President Poroshenko in the player above.


    NBC's Richard Engel in exclusive interview with Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko

    17 Dec.
    Paget to the Council.

    Now the Council's letters seem to imply (words quoted) that the King will keep no strangers save the Albanoys.

    Cales, 17 Dec. 1545. Signed.


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    Trump threatens to cancel Putin meeting over Ukraine crisis


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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    All Putin's doing, no doubt about this. It was too quiet. He needs to remind Russians about constant danger from enemies and how well he protects them.

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