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View Poll Results: The Future of Crimea

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  • Crimea is special and should become an independent country

    6 11.76%
  • Crimea belongs to Ukraine

    13 25.49%
  • Crimea should become Russian, because most population is Russian

    16 31.37%
  • Crimea should become first Tatar country, the longest residing ethnicity.

    10 19.61%
  • Crimea should be returned to Greece, the first official owner.

    6 11.76%
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Thread: Should Crimea be an independent country? (Russian-Ukrainian conflict)

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    PKK is not an excuse against a Kurdish state. Your arguments could come directly from a uneducated Teenage boy. PKK might killed some people but do you really claim the number of killed individuals by the Turkish state even slightly reach that of the PKK? If we consider the PKK "terrorist" because these casualties, what are we going to consider Turkey for the 3000 destroyed villages and millions of forcefully resettled Kurds and hundreds of thousand killed Kurds?



    And once again I repeat, where is your source for the statement that Kurds killed thousands of Europeans.

    You sure ain't a radical Turk? I ask because this grade of ignorance was only observed among these kind of people.


    I think you should take your own advise and research better instead on posting selective nonsense as usual.
    I never said that Kurds killed thousands of Europeans what I said that they have killed tens of thousands of Turks, Europeans, Westerners, and Middle Easterners. They have even killed other Kurds.

    Now, I am not saying all or even most Kurds are extremists, however there are Kurdish terrorist organisations, and many in fact. I never said Turkish authorities didn't do anything bad or wrong. Both sides have done wrong things, and neither are right. But the PKK seems to be the instigator.

    Additionally, I am not a Turk, not in the least regard. Are you sure you aren't a radical Kurd?

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    This guy was caught to have deep ties to the Turkish Secret Service. He installed a recorder in the Prime Ministers room. Or do you believe it was Erdogan himself you genius? This Guy has billions of Dollars, thousands of Schools around the World where he teaches and preaches Turkish type of Islam.
    Do you have any sources, no you do not. All of this is conjecture, and none of it has been proven. Why has it not been proven, because it is a myth!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    When you had almost no economy and transfer from closed economy to a free market such a relative (in percentage) grow is not an exception!

    What are you talking about, what is closed economy?
    I'm glad you admired the exceptional east European's countries growth. Do you mean nobody is holding them back? Good, they might be well off in next 25 years. Far cry from your "Never".
    From "nothing" to half of German per capita GDP in 25 years. I don't think they qualifies as poor anymore.


    I'll tell you what will happen if Western Ukraine will become part of the 'Western' world. IMF will lend some money to Ukraine to finance all the necessary and primary things in the country, like the police force. But it will be hard for Ukraine from the very beginning, since it will not get cheap or free gas from Russia.

    What?! You just said that from nothing countries grow fast.
    Here is your quote:
    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    When you had almost no economy and transfer from closed economy to a free market such a relative (in percentage) grow is not an exception!



    Before this conflict Russia gave gas and oil to Ukraine. After Western Ukraine becomes some how stable the borders will disappear and a lot very poor and cheap Ukrainian labours will look for work in the West European countries.

    It's time they used there own shale gas.




    Like it happened to Bulgaria, Romania etc. some countries in the Baltics became pretty wealthy, but countries like Bulgaria, Romania, Ukraine will nevers be wealthy countries since they don't have natural recourses and have nothing to offer to the European community. Ukraine is not better than Bulgaria, Romania, Albania, Kosovo etc. Such countries will always be the sick men of Europe, always dependent on rich countries in Europe, you like it or not!
    Look at the map again. I'm glad your opinion can't influence future of many countries. Can you imagine becoming a president of new independent country "Kurdistan". In your inaugural speech you proclame: We always be poor, we have nothing, there is no hope for us, we are not anglo-saxon, they won't let us be successful, only anglo-saxon and special countries win, etc, etc".
    Do you see doom and gloom you are spewing?
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    A Kurdish state in "Southeast and East Anatolia" (which is actually North Mesopotamia, Transcaucasus and part of the wider iranian plateau) would destabilize the Near East, but a Tatar state on disputed land between Western and Eastern powers would bring peace to the region. Cut me your illogical arguments, it's full of ignorant hypocritical nonsense. The worst part is that delusional people still believe more influence for Turkey means more influence for the West. Kurdistan is the only reason for hope in that on paper drawn country called Iraq. The reason why Iraq is unstable, is because Iraq as such should have never been a country. And it was never stable to begin with. And you talk about autonomy for Kurds in Turkey as if it is something Turkey is even ready to give.

    Also you seem to have not much idea about the history of Crimea. The Tatars appeared roughly at 1400 century AD while Crimea was part of the Kievan Rus around 10th to 11th AD.

    By the way just to build up some geographic knowledge. This is traditional (original Greek) Anatolia.
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...olieLimits.jpg


    What you call East and Southeast Anatolia was always part of the Mesopotamian, Iranian and Caucasian empires and never Greek nor Anatolia.
    Again, you need to research before you say this crap. Behold.

    342alexanderthegreatmap.gif

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolboygcp View Post
    I never said that Kurds killed thousands of Europeans what I said that they have killed tens of thousands of Turks, Europeans, Westerners, and Middle Easterners. They have even killed other Kurds.

    Now, I am not saying all or even most Kurds are extremists, however there are Kurdish terrorist organisations, and many in fact. I never said Turkish authorities didn't do anything bad or wrong. Both sides have done wrong things, and neither are right. But the PKK seems to be the instigator.

    Additionally, I am not a Turk, not in the least regard. Are you sure you aren't a radical Kurd?
    No my friend what you tried to do was "Imply" that Kurds killed considerable number of Europeans. To make it look more dramatic in the European viewers eye. The number of "killed Europeans" by Kurds doesn't exceed that of a dozen. You are simply trying to dramatize it by putting Europeans into the counting.


    Sorry but I don't buy that statements in my eyes you are clearly a Kurd hater who tries to generalize what happened to us with comparing them to casualties during a war between the Turkish state and the PKK. And worst of all you are hypocritical, you demand something for one side but don't support the same rights on the other.

    I am done with you in this thread. You can keep your "sympathy" for yourself and have a nice day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolboygcp View Post
    Again, you need to research before you say this crap. Behold.

    342alexanderthegreatmap.gif
    Man just stop it here. You claimed Anatolia is Greek based on SETTLEMENTS. I argued that "Eastern Anatolia" was not part of the traditional Greek SETTLEMENTS. And now you with your "knowledge" come up with the map of an empire. Empire does not equal SETTLEMENTS. Otherwise your argument that Anatolia is Greek wouldn't be valid anymore. Since Anatolia was conquered dozen times by non Greek people.

    Otherwise I could simply show these maps here.

    http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Images...empire_map.gif
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...t_1400_BCE.png
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...nid_Empire.jpg
    And your argument that Anatolia is Greek would become invalid. But I know that an empire does not equal to settlements.

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    Gentlemen, I know that there is no saint ethnicity or a country. We all did things that we are ashamed off and should apologies to others. Please let's not condemn any country or ethnicity because of old sins or bad few who might be considered terrorists of fascists.
    Let's act like friends discussing difficult issues.
    It is ok to be firm on issue (sometime we sound harsh) but let's be respectful and for lack of better word civilized.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    No my friend what you tried to do was "Imply" that Kurds killed considerable number of Europeans. To make it look more dramatic in the European viewers eye. The number of "killed Europeans" by Kurds doesn't exceed that of a dozen. You are simply trying to dramatize it.


    Sorry but I don't buy that statements in my eyes you are clearly a Kurd hater who tries to generalize what happened to us with comparing them to casualties during a war between the Turkish state and the PKK. And worst of all you are hypocritical, you demand something for one side but don't support the same rights on the other.

    I am done with you in this thread. You can keep your "sympathy" for yourself and have a nice day.
    I did not try to imply that.

    I am not a Kurd hater. I have never had a bad experience with a Kurd prior to you. I really liked Kurds, and I thought highly of them. I still do, you are probably just a bad apple compared to the informed, intelligent, nice Kurds that I know.

    I am not hypocritical. There is a difference between the situations of the Kurds, the Crimeans, the Tatars, and the Greeks. Because of your hate towards Turkey you have derailed this thread into talk about Turkey and Kurds. I thought this was about Crimea and Ukraine!

    Some people you cannot reason with, and it appears that you are one of them. Because of your hate towards Europeans, Turks, and myself, you post derogatory statements directed towards me.

    I am done with you.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Gentlemen, I know that there is no saint ethnicity or a country. We all did things that we are ashamed off and should apologies to others. Please let's not condemn any country or ethnicity because of old sins or bad few who might be considered terrorists of fascists.
    Let's act like friends discussing difficult issues.
    It is ok to be firm on issue (sometime we sound harsh) but let's be respectful and for lack of better word civilized.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    [/FONT][/COLOR]What are you talking about, what is closed economy?
    I'm glad you admired the exceptional east European's countries growth. Do you mean nobody is holding them back? Good, they might be well off in next 25 years. Far cry from your "Never".
    From "nothing" to half of German per capita GDP in 25 years. I don't think they qualifies as poor anymore.

    What?! You just said that from nothing countries grow fast.
    Why are you playing games with me? You know what I mean! If your per capita GDP is 1,000 and it will grow to 3,000 and if in other more developed countries it was 40,000 and is growing to 60,000, the absolute grow in developed countries is MUCH bigger than in poor countries, while the relative grow in poor countries is much higher. from 40,000 to 60,000 is 20,000! from 1,000 to 3,000 is 2,000. 2,000 is TEN times less than 20,000. While at the same time the grow from 1,000 to 3,000 is 300% (3 times more), while grow from 40,000 to 60,000 is 50% (1/2 times more).

    So relative grow (in percentage) can be very misleading especially in very poor countries!

    What if new so called 'puppet' leaders (with private interests like hunger for money) of formal Russia allied countries are corrupt and egocentric those who deceive (and use) their own people and work for the West (the US, Germany) only to harm Russia and not to make their own nation more wealthy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Why are you playing games with me? You know what I mean! If your per capita GDP is 1,000 and it will grow to 3,000 and if in other more developed countries it was 40,000 and is growing to 60,000, the absolute grow in developed countries is MUCH bigger than in poor countries, while the relative grow in poor countries is much higher. from 40,000 to 60,000 is 20,000! from 1,000 to 3,000 is 2,000. 2,000 is TEN times less than 20,000. While at the same time the grow from 1,000 to 3,000 is 300% (3 times more), while grow from 40,000 to 60,000 is 50% (1/2 times more).

    So relative grow (in percentage) can be very misleading especially in very poor countries!


    We are talking about Easter Europe and particularly Poland. Poland grew from 7k per capita to 21 thousand in 25 years (not easy as from 1,000 to 3,000), Ukraine didn't move at all, being stuck in old socialistic ways. Poland now is at half of German GDP per capita. Same with many Eastern European countries. You called them poor and never able to get to Western Europe level. Do you still think so? Did you had more time to analyze the numbers?
    Mind you that you used therms "Never" and "Poor", that's why this discussion started.

    What if new so called 'puppet' leaders (with private interests like hunger for money) of formal Russia allied countries are corrupt and egocentric those who deceive (and use) their own people and work for the West (the US, Germany) only to harm Russia and not to make their own nation more wealthy?
    Why you are so concerned with a hypothetical scenario. Do you have anything substantial in mind?
    I'm not sure if you didn't noticed that since cold war ended nobody in the west is competing with Russia in any way. Russia became second tier player with it's 2-3 trillion economy. China and Brazil became more important to the world with bigger economies than Russia. EU and US are 16 trillion economies each, together 32 trillion! Russia is now like a spoiled child looking for world attention, cutting off gas or attacking it's neighbors. "We used to be a big power, the world shakers, now nobody gives a damn. Our pride is hurt. Common, we are Russians, pay attention to us!"
    These are typical maneuvers of dictatorships (Putin), to create external enemies and blame them for every problem Russia is facing. Did even one Russian (Ukrainian citizen of Russian ethnicity) died to justify invasion on Ukraine? I'm sure Putin used it to show Russians that he is the big leader.
    There is not much gain from invading Crimea. Putin could spend another 50 billion (winter Olympic budget) and move military base to Russian shores. Probably for much less. A small price to pay to avoid a war and have a good friendly neighbor.
    In short, nobody wants to hurt Russia. West doesn't want any economical disturbances. It is not good for business. All West wants from Russia is not to do any crazy moves. Russia knows about this, probably wants oil prices to go up (because of conflict). Putin shows Russians that he is a savior of the nation and will make a profit on oil and gas.

    Tell me why Russia doesn't care for good neighbors? Except Belarus, they are all almost "enemies", all the way from Finland to Japan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    We are talking about Easter Europe and particularly Poland. Poland grew from 7k per capita to 21 thousand in 25 years (not easy as from 1,000 to 3,000), Ukraine didn't move at all, being stuck in old socialistic ways. Poland now is at half of German GDP per capita. Same with many Eastern European countries. You called them poor and never able to get to Western Europe level. Do you still think so? Did you had more time to analyze the numbers?
    Mind you that you used therms "Never" and "Poor", that's why this discussion started.

    [COLOR=#222222][FONT=Verdana]
    Why you are so concerned with a hypothetical scenario. Do you have anything substantial in mind?
    I'm not sure if you didn't noticed that since cold war ended nobody in the west is competing with Russia in any way. Russia became second tier player with it's 2-3 trillion economy. China and Brazil became more important to the world with bigger economies than Russia. EU and US are 16 trillion economies each, together 32 trillion! Russia is now like a spoiled child looking for world attention, cutting off gas or attacking it's neighbors. "We used to be a big power, the world shakers, now nobody gives a damn. Our pride is hurt. Common, we are Russians, pay attention to us!"
    These are typical maneuvers of dictatorships (Putin), to create external enemies and blame them for every problem Russia is facing. Did even one Russian (Ukrainian citizen of Russian ethnicity) died to justify invasion on Ukraine? I'm sure Putin used it to show Russians that he is the big leader.
    There is not much gain from invading Crimea. Putin could spend another 50 billion (winter Olympic budget) and move military base to Russian shores. Probably for much less. A small price to pay to avoid a war and have a good friendly neighbor.
    In short, nobody wants to hurt Russia. West doesn't want any economical disturbances. It is not good for business. All West wants from Russia is not to do any crazy moves. Russia knows about this, probably wants oil prices to go up (because of conflict). Putin shows Russians that he is a savior of the nation and will make a profit on oil and gas.

    Tell me why Russia doesn't care for good neighbors? Except Belarus, they are all almost "enemies", all the way from Finland to Japan.


    Bravo! Bravissimo! I agree completely!

    Russia needs to realise no one cares about it anymore! It is like if the Mongolians said "We had the Mongol Empire, the largest contiguous land empire in history! It was only 650 years ago! Aren't we a superpower still?"

    The Soviet Union is dead. Heck, Indonesia is probably a more important country than Russia is at this point!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    I'm pretty sure we can find fascists in Serbia and any other European country. Does this mean we have to condemn the whole nation because of few?
    Looks like you are a big hypocrite!



    1. These are not fascists. These are nationalists, but they are anti-fascist. Anyway their organization was forbidden in 2012, and they were persecuted.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obraz_(organization)

    Yes, we also have a groups of neo-nazis, but of course they are not allowed to go in public. Several groups that exhibited anti-Jewish or Hitler-loving behavior were banned by the Supreme court, and their members are now in jail:
    http://www.b92.net/eng/news/society....3&nav_id=74727



    2. Interesting word you have used hypocrisy. Especially because there is a parallel between Serbian and Ukrainian nazi groups, but EU is supporting Ukrainian ones, while doing it's best to repress Serbian ones. So why such behavior? I thought we were supposed to fight against these plagues wherever they are?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolboygcp View Post
    The better question is why is Russia treating gays and minorities like the Nazis treated the Jews?
    You really think we are all idiots? Is this the way how you debate to resolve a problem?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring

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    I didn't wanted to flood this thread but since some individual who made accusations like "Kurds killed Europeans" and "Kurds forcefully impose their culture on the native population of their host stages" and than tried to generalize the cruelty made on Kurds by the state of Turkey in one century by comparing it to some casualties which happened during war between PKK and the Turkish state. And reporting this extremely one sided for his beloved Turkey.

    I needed to clarify some thing. Since he started talking about the "unresolved" murders in Turkey.

    In 1993, the parliament formed a commission (Turkish: Faili Meçhul Cinayetleri Araştırma Komisyonu) to investigate the numerous unsolved murders believed to be perpetrated by the Counter-Guerrilla. Their report enumerated 1797 such deaths; 316 in 1992 and 314 in 1993 alone. General Güreş contacted the Speaker of Parliament, Hüsamettin Cindoruk, to stop the investigation in order to prevent the outing of his men.[43] Meanwhile, State Security Court prosecutor Nusret Demiral ordered the police force not to co-operate with the parliamentary commission in solving the crimes.
    Since several years it is well known that Turkish MIT agents, dressed as PKK attacked, killed and kidnapped civilians to bring the Kurdish population against it.


    In 2009 a Turkish soldier was captured throwing a bomb into a book store and running away. The people managed to capture him and found a plan of targets with him and his passport. They handed him over to the Turkish state but the state instead of putting him in Jail, let him go and the Chief of the Turkish General Staff of the Turkish armed forces said "I know him he is a good guy". So if the Chief calls a murder who was bombing Kurdish neighbor hoods a "good guy" what can I expect from the whole Security Service?




    But I know this would have been too much to research so better report one sided for the state you are trying to protect.


    There are dozens of more stories like this, but I am not going any deeper into it. If I wanted I could start by Dersim Massacre and go on with Roboski and many more. But this would go too much of topic.

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    Concerning what has been said in the German news; The Krim Tatars are pro-Ukraine and do not desire an own/indi. state; But app. there is a potential that the conflict could escalate into another Chechnya (religiously);

    I also ask myself of the Western Media reporting towards Russia and Russian policies; What is however obvious is that the EU is not capable of doing anything productive; The celebrated contract last week between Yanukovych was de-facto worthless just 24h later; Someone must help and support the negotiations and coming together process between the Ukrainians themselves (East/West) first - before the Ukrainians can negotiate (after May elections and new Gov.) with Russia and EU;

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    .................

    So explain to us why this special Anglo-saxon country was poor till 80s? And what do we need to fear? What do Poland need to fear from US or England? Just keep in mind that Polish, Czech, Slovak, Lithuanien and few other economies of easter europen countries grew 3 fold in last 25 years. That's very fast by economic standards and it means they catching up to the west.
    I don't see any sign of holding them back, do you?
    Amazing stories you tell, more special places...
    I can explain why Ireland was so poor until the late 20th century. Ireland was conquered by the English about 500 years ago and its people were horribly abused, slaughtered or shipped off to the West Indies in slavery, and Ireland was carved up into estates for absentee English landlords. It took centuries of rebellion to push the English out of most of Ireland, and they still control Northern Ireland. Even in the early 20th century, the notorious Black and Tans would go into the villages and shoot unarmed young men whenever there was some kind of rebellion in the area. Then the Irish finally got their freedom for most of Ireland after WW I, but it took a few decades for Ireland to become prosperous.

    I do agree with you that a country doesn't need lots of natural resources in order to become prosperous if it's well run. The best example is Japan - it's a small island with few resources and a lot of people but, even with its current economic problems, it's still much more prosperous than its neighbours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolboygcp View Post


    Bravo! Bravissimo! I agree completely!

    Russia needs to realise no one cares about it anymore! It is like if the Mongolians said "We had the Mongol Empire, the largest contiguous land empire in history! It was only 650 years ago! Aren't we a superpower still?"

    The Soviet Union is dead. Heck, Indonesia is probably a more important country than Russia is at this point!
    I don't mean to sound rude or unfriendly, but to me, your grasp of history and geopolitics seems somewhat tenuous. Russia is still a large and dangerous country, they do have control over Crimea now, and there are now pro-Russian demonstrations going on in other parts of eastern Ukraine, just as I predicted. There is a danger that war might break out between Russia and the Ukraine, and if it does, the whole world is in danger. Crimea and the other parts of south eastern Ukraine have belonged to Russia (among others) in the past, and Russia considers that area its territory. It's a very dangerous situation.

    Some of your other remarks don't make too much sense to me, such as your saying that Texas and California joined the U.S. willingly. The U.S. stole Texas and California from Spain after first having puppet governments created by U.S. citizens fight the Spanish for control, and the Spanish stole those territories from Native people. Perhaps you should study history more. And, while many of us have used Wikipedia as a quick source of details about some subject, I wouldn't quote it as an authoritative source. Articles are written by individuals, and different individuals have different agendas, as this thread shows.

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    A new turn, blackmailing from Putin (I do not think that Ike will like this):

    "Putin's new relativism over non-interference and inviolability of borders raised incidentally the prospect of a possible geopolitical trade-off. He drew a parallel between Crimea and Kosovo. Moscow has thus far staunchly refused to recognise Kosovo's independence from its ally, Serbia. Today, the president seemed to raise the possibility that he might accept Kosovo if the west accepted Crimean independence or annexation by Russia."
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/04/putin-ukraine-olive-branches-russian-tanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post


    2. Interesting word you have used hypocrisy. Especially because there is a parallel between Serbian and Ukrainian nazi groups, but EU is supporting Ukrainian ones, while doing it's best to repress Serbian ones. So why such behavior? I thought we were supposed to fight against these plagues wherever they are?
    Give us one example, one proof of EU supporting Ukrainian nazi organization. Otherwise stop this insanity.


    1. These are not fascists. These are nationalists, but they are anti-fascist. Anyway their organization was forbidden in 2012, and they were persecuted.
    Oh, I understand now. Serbian ultra-nationalists are anti-fascist. But Ukrainian ultra-nationalists are fascist and nazi.
    Hypocrisy is very fitting term here, don't you think?
    Last edited by LeBrok; 04-03-14 at 19:51.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matbir View Post
    Ha Ha exactly the same expression as I would expect from Poles brainwashed in communist times. They are blind for Russian imperialist policy, and every misery and suffering in the world is caused by vampire-capitalists from USA and Western Europe.


    Prawy Sektor is a group of people working in favor of Putin's policy they gave reasons to attack Ukraine and they gave reasons to stop Polish support for democratic changes in Ukraine. Who is taking advantage from this? Of course Putin!
    So, in my opinion this extremist deserve be eliminated from political scene. Especially glorification of the butcher Stefan Bandera is the sign of their brainlessness. Yatseniuk is aware of this and doing his best to keep Ukraine as one country.

    First of all water cannons are the best way to stop protests especially in winter when temperature is -10C. But in Ukraine it is not the case, Yanukovich wasn’t able to stop the protests because in administration and in very influential oligarchs he had opposition. That is why for last four months inner conflict escalated in Ukraine. One more thing, Yanukovich deceived the public in case of his foreign policy and that made Ukrainians angry.

    I thing “Prawy Sektor” is supported by Russian Federation. I just explained it to user Soket. Everything go along game theory.



    Edit: Russian Federation attacks Ukraine to protect Russian minority, but nothing happened to them. So what is next? Maybe Time for Latvia where Russians have to pass Language exam to gain citizenship of Republic of Latvia? The Russian minority in this country make 26.9%. Should Latvians feel threatened?
    You seem to know very well the Russian and even more than me, that's the reason I never responds to your messages, because I have nothing to contest.
    But what you do not say is that the Russians are sincere and can do evil that good conscience.Le Russian people as a whole, is naive with the hierarchy is a nation of believers.
    Thus a malicious dictator can exploit.
    DJin dobre !

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    Just "heard" some news/rumor that Putin contacted east Ukrainian provincial and urban governments with a message that it is OK to ask Russia for protection. I think Putin expects to lose influence over Ukraine and wants to gain as much territory as possible.

    I wonder how strong EU leaders will come up with sanctions against Russia, if any. After all Russia supplies 30% or more energy, in gas and oil, to UE. Putin is known to react fast but not known as compassionate.

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    I don't understand that "gay" blaming of Russia by anglosaxons in general. RF don't let minorities impose its will on the majority, any bad here??? And we don't have feminism here too while our woman totally free since viking ages...

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    [/FONT][/COLOR]What are you talking about, what is closed economy?
    I'm glad you admired the exceptional east European's countries growth. Do you mean nobody is holding them back? Good, they might be well off in next 25 years. Far cry from your "Never".
    From "nothing" to half of German per capita GDP in 25 years. I don't think they qualifies as poor anymore.



    What?! You just said that from nothing countries grow fast.
    Here is your quote:
    [/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE]

    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    It's time they used there own shale gas.

    [/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000][FONT=verdana]



    Look at the map again. I'm glad your opinion can't influence future of many countries. Can you imagine becoming a president of new independent country "Kurdistan". In your inaugural speech you proclame: We always be poor, we have nothing, there is no hope for us, we are not anglo-saxon, they won't let us be successful, only anglo-saxon and special countries win, etc, etc".
    Do you see doom and gloom you are spewing?
    You must add the Aquitaine basin which could reseve of oils schiste very important
    http://aquitaine.france3.fr/gaz-de-schiste

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post
    So, does EU wants a war, or does it want to stop it?
    EU is not in position to dictate or even anger Russia, because Russia supplies over 30% of oil and gas. Putin can cripple EU with one swift decision. Did you think about this?

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