Politics Should Crimea be an independent country? (Russian-Ukrainian conflict)

[martiko]

Ha Ha exactly the same expression as I would expect from Poles brainwashed in communist times. They are blind for Russian imperialist policy, and every misery and suffering in the world is caused by vampire-capitalists from USA and Western Europe.


Prawy Sektor is a group of people working in favor of Putin's policy they gave reasons to attack Ukraine and they gave reasons to stop Polish support for democratic changes in Ukraine. Who is taking advantage from this? Of course Putin!
So, in my opinion this extremist deserve be eliminated from political scene. Especially glorification of the butcher Stefan Bandera is the sign of their brainlessness. Yatseniuk is aware of this and doing his best to keep Ukraine as one country.

First of all water cannons are the best way to stop protests especially in winter when temperature is -10C. But in Ukraine it is not the case, Yanukovich wasn’t able to stop the protests because in administration and in very influential oligarchs he had opposition. That is why for last four months inner conflict escalated in Ukraine. One more thing, Yanukovich deceived the public in case of his foreign policy and that made Ukrainians angry.

I thing “Prawy Sektor” is supported by Russian Federation. I just explained it to user Soket. Everything go along game theory.



Edit: Russian Federation attacks Ukraine to protect Russian minority, but nothing happened to them. So what is next? Maybe Time for Latvia where Russians have to pass Language exam to gain citizenship of Republic of Latvia? The Russian minority in this country make 26.9%. Should Latvians feel threatened?

You seem to know very well the Russian and even more than me, that's the reason I never responds to your messages, because I have nothing to contest.
But what you do not say is that the Russians are sincere and can do evil that good conscience.Le Russian people as a whole, is naive with the hierarchy is a nation of believers.
Thus a malicious dictator can exploit.
DJin dobre !

 

[LeBrok]

Just "heard" some news/rumor that Putin contacted east Ukrainian provincial and urban governments with a message that it is OK to ask Russia for protection. I think Putin expects to lose influence over Ukraine and wants to gain as much territory as possible.

I wonder how strong EU leaders will come up with sanctions against Russia, if any. After all Russia supplies 30% or more energy, in gas and oil, to UE. Putin is known to react fast but not known as compassionate.

 

[Anton Bear's den]

I don't understand that "gay" blaming of Russia by anglosaxons in general. RF don't let minorities impose its will on the majority, any bad here??? And we don't have feminism here too while our woman totally free since viking ages...

 

[martiko]

[/FONT][/COLOR]What are you talking about, what is closed economy?
I'm glad you admired the exceptional east European's countries growth. Do you mean nobody is holding them back? Good, they might be well off in next 25 years. Far cry from your "Never".
From "nothing" to half of German per capita GDP in 25 years. I don't think they qualifies as poor anymore.



What?! You just said that from nothing countries grow fast.
Here is your quote:
[/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE]

[/FONT][/COLOR]
It's time they used there own shale gas.

[/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE]

Look at the map again. I'm glad your opinion can't influence future of many countries. Can you imagine becoming a president of new independent country "Kurdistan". In your inaugural speech you proclame: We always be poor, we have nothing, there is no hope for us, we are not anglo-saxon, they won't let us be successful, only anglo-saxon and special countries win, etc, etc".
Do you see doom and gloom you are spewing?

You must add the Aquitaine basin which could reseve of oils schiste very important
http://aquitaine.france3.fr/gaz-de-schiste

 

[LeBrok]

So, does EU wants a war, or does it want to stop it?

EU is not in position to dictate or even anger Russia, because Russia supplies over 30% of oil and gas. Putin can cripple EU with one swift decision. Did you think about this?

 

[martiko]

Just "heard" some news/rumor that Putin contacted east Ukrainian provincial and urban governments with a message that it is OK to ask Russia for protection. I think Putin expects to lose influence over Ukraine and wants to gain as much territory as possible.

I wonder how strong EU leaders will come up with sanctions against Russia, if any. After all Russia supplies 30% or more energy, in gas and oil, to UE. Putin is known to react fast but not known as compassionate.

you thought I was exaggerating when I predicted this!
I just found that mimics Putin Hitler thinking, I suppose, it will stop before.
It is a bad tactician because it is already too much, and he just lost a battle but the Russian economy will not see that in a few months the effect of war.
And it will soon lose a second battle: The EEC and the USA intend to clear the debts of Ukraine through the IMF and the European bank.

On the other hand I do not understand why Kurds criticize us all.
Gas Saddam Hussein was on Russian gas and is Europe with USA who protected enclave Kurds and planes were American, French and English.
But if they think we are fachistes, then should not he stay here in CEE, and they will be happier in the great Russian democracy where he will be welcomed here better than in CEE.
You're not prisoners.

 

[LeBrok]

I like the way Ukraine reacts so far, with no military action against Russian invasion, and with only verbal demands. Russia is breaking their own agreements with Ukraine and international law. Sooner or later they would need to answer to international courts and repair relationship with their one of the most important neighbor. It means that in future Ukraine will get back Crimea, and that any fighting with Russian troops is unnecessary at the moment.

There might be one very bad consequence for Russia coming up. EU will not be happy with uncertain gas and oil supplies, and unstable and high gas prices. Yesterday natural gas prices jumped 10%. EU will look for more trustful suppliers and cheaper gas during this year. It might accelerate shale gas development in many european countries. Next year Russia could face 10% or bigger drop in gas and oil trade. It means billions of euros lost from the budget. It is going to start hurting Russia bad, and it might be just the beginning. Few years like this and Russians will be very unhappy. Putin will lose election or will take over as true dictator. We might see riots in Moscow streets in few years.

Putin might (unconsciously) be engineering his own demise.

 

[Ike]

Give us one example, one proof of EU supporting Ukrainian nazi organization. Otherwise stop this insanity.

Are you satisfied with Canadian sorces?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-u-s-has-installed-a-neo-nazi-government-in-ukraine/5371554

Or maybe from BBC?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY

Oh, I understand now. Serbian ultra-nationalists are anti-fascist. But Ukrainian ultra-nationalists are fascist and nazi.
Hypocrisy is very fitting term here, don't you think?

No you don't understand LeBrok . It seems you have hard time with abstract concepts. Let me draw it to you. Are you familiar with sets in mathematics? As you can see from the picture Nationalists can be both fascist and anti-fascist. I've pointed out to you which fractions in Serbia belong to which side. Either way it's of no importance because they are all BANNED.

EU is not in position to dictate or even anger Russia, because Russia supplies over 30% of oil and gas. Putin can cripple EU with one swift decision. Did you think about this?

Ok, but why do they support it? Or you think that Canadian sources are wrong? Maybe Michel Chossudovsky is misinterpreting the facts?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/protes...ed-by-us-and-eu-both-covert-and-overt/5371869

 

[LeBrok]

But if they think we are fachistes, then should not he stay here in CEE, and they will be happier in the great Russian democracy where he will be welcomed here better than in CEE.
You're not prisoners.

We have to keep in mind that Russian democracy is very fresh. Till 1991 there was always a dictator, Tzar or First Secretary, to tell Russians what to do and what to think. It will take many more decades for Russia to learn democratic ways, and treat your neighbors as friends and not as Vassals.

It is also important to see Ukraine in frame of new country development. Till 1991 Ukraine never existed as an independent country, and also as Russia never experienced democracy before either. Country-forming is often long and uneasy process. Let's give them some slack and understanding.

 

[LeBrok]

No you don't understand LeBrok . It seems you have hard time with abstract concepts. Let me draw it to you. Are you familiar with sets in mathematics? As you can see from the picture Nationalists can be both fascist and anti-fascist. I've pointed out to you which fractions in Serbia belong to which side. Either way it's of no importance because they are all BANNED.

Check your reading glasses. Did I say nationalist or ultra-nationalist?

 

[Ike]

Same thing LeBrok. They were banned according to their action not according to the nomenclature. They can call themselves infra-nationalists if they like.

Why are not Ukrainian nazi supporters banned and prosecuted? Why do we see SS symbols on the streets of Ukraine? Why is nobody in EU talking about Nazi revival?

 

[Goga]

On the other hand I do not understand why Kurds criticize us all.
Gas Saddam Hussein was on Russian gas and is Europe with USA who protected enclave Kurds and planes were American, French and English.
But if they think we are fachistes, then should not he stay here in CEE, and they will be happier in the great Russian democracy where he will be welcomed here better than in CEE.
You're not prisoners.

Are you serious? When Saddam Hussein committed a genocide on Kurds Saddam Hussein was a huge ally of the USA

Saddam Hussein with Donald Rumsfeld

http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/

The mustard gas and nerve gas Saddam Hussein used was supplied by the USA, Germany, the Netherlands and some other European countries

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-153210/Rumsfeld-helped-Iraq-chemical-weapons.html

Dutchmen Frans van Anraat was thedirect and main supplier of chemical weapons to Saddam Hussein that were used against the Kurds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frans_van_Anraat

This was not new, even during Churchill the Brits gassed Kurds, because the British Empire wanted Kurdish oil andK urds resisted to become slaves of the European Powers.

The West (Western Europe andt he USA) always supported the enemies of the Kurds. The western powers are allies of Turks and Arabs. The western world has been always seeing Kurds as their enemies, since the Saladin (Kurd) liberated Jerusalem from the Crusaders.

That's why I'm against the Western unipolar hegemony on this planet. Because than they can do whatever they want, fearing nobody. That's why this must be stopped! The power will be divide again. There must be a balance of power. The world will become multipolar. The USA have to swallow their pride and take some steps back. I don't like Russia, but I don't like the arrogance and the hegemony of the USA either.

 

[LeBrok]

Are you satisfied with Canadian sorces?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-u-s-has-installed-a-neo-nazi-government-in-ukraine/5371554

Lol, some obscure left wing publishing company knows the truth. I'm sure they have secret agents in Ukrainian politics and print the truth.

Let's look at varied and objective books they sell:
-Globalization of poverty
- Towards a WWIII
-9/11 uncovering ten years of deception
-the Globalization of NATO
-America war on terrorizm
-NATO war on Libya and Africa
-Scramble for Africa
-Globalization of Poverty and New World Order
-Hidden agenda of Genetic Manipulation
-Economic crisis, Great Depression of XXI century

I'm sure you are reading these conspiracy theorists very often.

Not even one title about good old Russia? Not on Russia helping Ukraine to get prosperous? Nothing about good communism? Just books on ugly NATO, bad America, and greedy business.
Do you really consider them to be an objective publisher?

Or maybe from BBC?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY

Enlighten me what time on this video I have to listen for EU supporting Ukrainian nazis? I must have missed that proof.
Oh, maybe you implying that when EU or US helps all ukrainian people they will indirectly help ultra-nationalists too. So they are implicated. These sneaky politicians, damn. By the same logic EU is anti-russian.
What a matriculate logic. All friends and sympathetic people to Ukraine must be nazi and Russian haters. There is no other way. Thanks for helping.

 

[Goga]

USA who protected enclave Kurds and planes were American, French and English.

Nowadays, the USA is helping Arabs in Iraq and Syria against the Kurds. In Rojava (Western Kurdistan/Syria) Kurds are fighting against the Islamic Al-Qaeda terrorists who are backed by Turkey, Saudi Arabia and the USA. In South Kurdistan (Iraqi Kurdistan) the USA is helping Al Malicki central government against the Kurds. The USA is helping Turkey against the Kurds. The USA betrayed Kurds many times. I don't believe in the so callled 'DEMOCRACY' of the USA anymore. For me it doesn't matter wahtever will happen to the USA!

 

[LeBrok]

Same thing LeBrok. They were banned according to their action not according to the nomenclature. They can call themselves infra-nationalists if they like.

Is your math failing you?

Why are not Ukrainian nazi supporters banned and prosecuted? Why do we see SS symbols on the streets of Ukraine? Why is nobody in EU talking about Nazi revival?

Yes we all know about this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY

We are just against branding all Ukrainians as nazis by you.

 

[LeBrok]

Are you serious? When Saddam Hussein committed a genocide on Kurds Saddam Hussein was a hugeally of the USA

Saddam Hussein with Donald Rumsfeld

http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/

The mustard gasand nerve gas Saddam Hussein used was supplied by the USA, Germany, the Netherlands and some other European countries

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-153210/Rumsfeld-helped-Iraq-chemical-weapons.html

Dutchmen Frans van Anraat was thedirect and main supplier of chemical weapons to Saddam Hussein that were used againstthe Kurds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frans_van_Anraat

This was not new, evenduring Churchill gassed Kurds, because the British Empire wanted Kurdish oil andKurds resisted to become slaves of the European Powers.

The West (Western Europe andthe USA) always supported the enemies of the Kurds. The western powers areallies of Turks and Arabs. The western world have been always seeing Kurds astheir enemies, since the Saladin (Kurd) liberated Jerusalem from the Crusaders.

That's why I'm against the Western unipolar hegemony on this planet. Because than they can do whatever they want, fearing nobody. That's why this must be stopped! The power will be divide again. The world will become multipolar. The USA have to swallow their pride and take some steps back. I don't like Russia, but I don't like the arrogance and the hegemony of the USA either.

Is this why you live in Holland now, paying taxes there, which are used by Wester Block to increase their dominance over the world?
Or you live there because it is a peaceful, rich, quiet and tolerant country? Based in Western philosophy and economy which you hate.

An interesting case of biting a hand that feeds you.

 

[Goga]

Is this why you live in Holland now, paying taxes there, which are used by Wester Block to increase their dominance over the world?
Or you live there because it is a peaceful, rich, quiet and tolerant country? Based in Western philosophy and economy which you hate.

An interesting case of biting a hand that feeds you.

Dutch people were responsible for the genocide on Kurds! They sold chemical weapons to Saddam Hussein in return for Kurdish oil from Kurdistan!
After the genocide, Holland accepted many Kurds from southern Kurdistan because the Dutch government felt guilty and acknowledged being responsible for genocide against the Kurds

And what are you talking about and why are you twisting my words again? I'm not against Holland, I’m against the USA hegemony! The USA hegemony is very bad for my homeland and my people!

 

[Anton Bear's den]

Those Anglo-Saxons completely lost the connection with reality. There is no Russian troops in Ukraine except those who already was there (sailors, marines etc...). Current illegitimate gangs in Kiev don't attack Crimean government because simply don't have forces except thugs from ultra nationalist groups, after the announcement of mobilization only 1.5% came to recruiting stations lol nobody is wishes to fight for bunch of corrupted western lackeys, oligarchs & neo-nazis, Klitschko can make suicide and eat his German passport haha

Sanctions against Russia? Not very smart idea to threaten the country which crushed the Nazis at Stalingrad, good luck with it and do not forget to stock up on candles

 

[Goga]

Those Anglo-Saxons completely lost the connection with reality. There is no Russian troops in Ukraine except those who already was there (sailors, marines etc...). Current illegitimate gangs in Kiev don't attack Crimean government because simply don't have forces except thugs from ultra nationalist groups, after the announcement of mobilization only 1.5% came to recruiting stations lol nobody is wishes to fight for bunch of corrupted western lackeys, oligarchs & neo-nazis, Klitschko can make suicide and eat his German passport haha

Sanctions against Russia? Not very smart idea to threaten the country which crushed the Nazis at Stalingrad, good luck with it and do not forget to stock up on candles

They think Russia is like Lybia, Iraq or Syria, lol. Some kind of a land where they can impose their will. I don't know why but here in the West they do always underestimate Russia. I used to be a huge fan of Klitschkos, but the oldest sister lost my respect. I still like the younger brother though.

 

[Goga]

The United States don't believe in the so called 'democracy'. They use democracy only when it only applies to them. And if they try to impose their will on some kind of weak and poor nations they always use the same strategy and do it under the same banner of 'spreading democracy/liberalism'. So predictable...