Politics Should Crimea be an independent country? (Russian-Ukrainian conflict)

[Anton Bear's den]

Do we have knowledge to teach?
"West" with its knowledge of economy, politics and freedoms makes up fairly unified block of roughly one billion people with 45 trillion GDP (almost 2/3 of world's total) coupled with high freedoms of citizens.

Volume of "West" in world GDP already less than half and will only decrease in future

"Russian Union" consists of roughly 150 million people with 2 trillion GDP, with sort of democracy, sort of economy, sort of freedoms, with political opponents of Putin in prisons or fleeing broad to save their lives, and 80% of citizens dreaming about Russian Empire again.

Well, we all know what kind of "democracy" you have, all media under control of corporations / oligarchs. President plays no role, serve as a decoration. So called "freedom" is fake as mirage in a desert. I saw Michael Moore film "Capitalism the Love story", I am did not noticed "happy free Americans" there, but rather some gloomy and fearing people who afraid own police, that someday the collector from the bank will arrive and confiscate the house. I think yankees invented that myth to import more dumb immigrants in North America. It's like viking Erik the Red who propagandized to settle in Greenland among vikings because the land there is "green" as he claimed lol Vikings arrived, watched cold naked rocks, asked: "are you kidding bro?" and turned back to Scandinavia

Well, the numbers and socio-economic events show that you have lots to learn.
West showed how to be prosperous and free, but of course you have a better Russian model to try... Didn't you already tried this amazing Soviet Union model? Remind me, how did it end up?

The root of American "incredible economic miracles" is in dollar, not in "freedom of the west" or other BS you just mentioned, to be more accurate in the philosopher's stone of dollar. Yankees just print them as paper and spent on the goods they need. The scheme is simple, the Federal Reserve prints dollars and "buys" on them government bonds of the U.S. government, this is why the debt has already exceeded officially above of 100% GDP without the bankruptcy of the U.S. economy. To not let dollars come back exist the CIA, the IMF and other organizations. You probably noticed that none of the Russian petro-oligarchs do not live in the U.S., the maximum in London, since yankees don't need their paper back to raise inflation. Yankess call printing of these green candy wrappers "quantitative easing"

About 60% of USA 3 trillion budget donated through this cheat scheme each year, their real economy can support only 40% of their spendings ie. USA de-facto is a parasite on the world economy. Just like the power of British empire before was based on the parasitism on the colonies, not real production. Only fools can believe in super mega US economy, while almost everything produced in China.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQzfL0ge26Q

 

[Ike]

I have written about Crimea, not Russia. Building infrastructure to connect Russia with Crimea will take few years, while people there need electricity, water and bread every day. Maybe Putin didn't take economy under consideration, but if it will lead to economic disaster in Crimea will he be able to stop protests of hungry and angry people? Or Russia will threaten Ukraine with war in case when they will try to cut of supplies for the peninsula.

OK, what do you think would happen if surrounding countries tried to cut supplies to Switzerland? Or more simple example Andorra? Or most simple Lesotho?

 

[Ike]

Of course you like that part of the article.

Yeah, I like it when real bad guys are labeled.

Yeah, he is just bullshitting CNN with what he said. That isn't true, he couldn't care less about the Ukrianian people, all he cares/cared about is stealing money to build big mansions and compounds, and to buy useless and expensive things; and appeasing his BFF/boyfriend Putin. :grin:

That's why he was deposed.

Gay ppl in love. Cute, modern and democratic.

Also, if they (the opposition) found his convoy when he was leaving, they would have done much worse than fire guns at it. They would have captured him, and turned him over to The Hague, who would have then prosecuted him. The Hague is still going to prosecute Yanukovych, as he massacred hundreds of people, and committed numerous human rights abuses.

Hague is illegal court. It's US financed and serves their political purpose. Even kids here in Europe know that.

 

[matbir]

OK, what do you think would happen if surrounding countries tried to cut supplies to Switzerland? Or more simple example Andorra? Or most simple Lesotho?

Do not act as ignorant! There is ongoing conflict between Russia and Ukraine about rebel in Ukrainian province Crimea lead by Russian government. Ukrainian politics mentioned few times that their government should stop supplying rebelled province, Crimean answer for that was threat of war with so called "Crimean self defense forces", who are serving to Russian army. Try to write something constructive, please.

Edit:
Look at symbols that they use, hammer and sickle - symbols of bloody totalitarian regime. In Poland this symbols are illegal, because promoting totalitarianism is treated as crime.

 

[LeBrok]

Well, we all know what kind of "democracy" you have, all media under control of corporations / oligarchs. President plays no role, serve as a decoration. So called "freedom" is fake as mirage in a desert. I saw Michael Moore film "Capitalism the Love story", I am did not noticed "happy free Americans" there, but rather some gloomy and fearing people who afraid own police, that someday the collector from the bank will arrive and confiscate the house. I think yankees invented that myth to import more dumb immigrants in North America. It's like viking Erik the Red who propagandized to settle in Greenland among vikings because the land there is "green" as he claimed lol Vikings arrived, watched cold naked rocks, asked: "are you kidding bro?" and turned back to Scandinavia

You again sound like you only know the world from Soviet/Russian TV, lol. The West was always rotten and worse than happy Soviet Union, but at the end Soviet Union collapsed and the West is still perfectly good. Actually many more countries abandoned Soviet style systems and joined the "rotten" West since. I guess by your standards people are stupid, they don't know what to do, except you and Putin, lol. You should go abroad and see the world yourself.

You are also misinformed about Greenland:
During Medieval warm period there were many Norse settlements in Greenland. One of them, Hvalsey on picture below, was continuously occupied for 400 years, till little ice age. Obviously the truth is different than "facts" you've been taught. So, don't you think that you are the one who's been brainwashed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Greenland#The_demise_of_the_Greenland_Norse_settlements

The root of American "incredible economic miracles" is in dollar, not in "freedom of the west" or other BS you just mentioned, to be more accurate in the philosopher's stone of dollar. Yankees just print them as paper and spent on the goods they need. The scheme is simple, the Federal Reserve prints dollars and "buys" on them government bonds of the U.S. government, this is why the debt has already exceeded officially above of 100% GDP without the bankruptcy of the U.S. economy. To not let dollars come back exist the CIA, the IMF and other organizations. You probably noticed that none of the Russian petro-oligarchs do not live in the U.S., the maximum in London, since yankees don't need their paper back to raise inflation. Yankess call printing of these green candy wrappers "quantitative easing"

About 60% of USA 3 trillion budget donated through this cheat scheme each year, their real economy can support only 40% of their spendings ie. USA de-facto is a parasite on the world economy. Just like the power of British empire before was based on the parasitism on the colonies, not real production. Only fools can believe in super mega US economy, while almost everything produced in China.

Wow, now you know the trick for prosperity. Tell Putin about this and go on with your program of building the strongest and happiest Russian Empire, lol.

 

[Aberdeen]

I don't want to encourage Anton, who has a very biased view of things. However, I got this gem from the BBC News website.

"A recent survey conducted by three US college professors found that only one in six Americans could find Ukraine on a map of the world. What's more disturbing is that the farther away from the actual location of Ukraine the survey participants guessed, the more likely they were to support US military intervention. A few of the 2,066 respondents seem to think Ukraine is somewhere in the central US, which certainly would make an armed response easier."

 

[Ike]

Do not act as ignorant! There is ongoing conflict between Russia and Ukraine about rebel in Ukrainian province Crimea lead by Russian government. Ukrainian politics mentioned few times that their government should stop supplying rebelled province, Crimean answer for that was threat of war with so called "Crimean self defense forces", who are serving to Russian army. Try to write something constructive, please.

Ye, I know that CIA has installed puppet regime in Kiev that is trying to start a war between Ukraine and Russia, although Ukrainians are not in conflict with Russians.

I also know that Polish people hate everything about Russia, and that's your problem (which makes you not see things clearly considering situation in Ukraine). I must say, that this is not the first time Catholics show enormous antagonism and hate towards something that they were connected to before. It common phenomena in psychology when people want to cut all the ties with their past, and it turns into hatred. It's almost a cliche for a Catholic Slavic nation to hate everything Russian or Orthodox. Yeah, I know it sounds more powerful to be German or Danish, but denouncement of what you are is not an answer. US doesn't really care about you, they are just using you for their Drang nach Osten project, and once they finish what they started, they leave us all in gutter.

Look at symbols that they use, hammer and sickle - symbols of bloody totalitarian regime. In Poland this symbols are illegal, because promoting totalitarianism is treated as crime.

Those symbols represent what they do, I see no negative connotations about them, although they were on my flag also. Here they represent people of working class rebuilding the country. Not much to do with Soviets or totalitarianism. Polish-Russian feud started long before that symbol, and I wouldn't use it as a marker of postwar events in Soviet-Russian relations.

 

[LeBrok]

Ye, I know that CIA has installed puppet regime in Kiev

Wrong

I also know that Polish people hate everything about Russia

Wrong

(which makes you not see things clearly considering situation in Ukraine)

Clearly applies to you.

I must say, that this is not the first time Catholics show enormous antagonism and hate towards something that they were connected to before.

Wow, now it is a religious issue, lol. Obviously CIA is Catholic too, lol.

It common phenomena in psychology when people want to cut all the ties with their past, and it turns into hatred

Cutting yourself from the past is healthy, it means closure. Did you mean hang on to the past? If Yugoslavia/Serbia had cut its ties to the past we wouldn't have had the Balkan war.

It's almost a cliche for a Catholic Slavic nation to hate everything Russian or Orthodox.

Typical Ike's exaggeration. Many Poles love Russian culture, but they still hate Putin, Stalin and Lenin.

Yeah, I know it sounds more powerful to be German or Danish, but denouncement of what you are is not an answer. US doesn't really care about you, they are just using you for their Drang nach Osten project, and once they finish what they started, they leave us all in gutter.

Everybody wants to get Ike, the CIA, the Germans, the Catholics, the gays, the Albanians, etc. I'm surprised you can find a place to hid in this crazy world, lol. Tell us what it is called in psychology? It has to be some kind of phobia.

 

[ElHorsto]

Ukrainian forces launch 'anti-terrorist' operation in Slaviansk

At least one government security officer was killed, and five wounded.


On the side of the separatists there had been an "unidentifiable number" of casualties during the operation in the town of Slaviansk, the minister, Arsen Avakov, said on his Facebook page.

Should Donbass be an independent country?

 

[LeBrok]

Ukrainian forces launch 'anti-terrorist' operation in Slaviansk



Should Donbass be an independent country?

They should have a referendum about independence as long as it is overseen by independent observers. Otherwise Russian "freedom fighters" should be send to Russia.

It amazes me how Russians are afraid of the West, to the point of panic and desperation, and believe that only Russia can give them a good life.

 

[ElHorsto]

They should have a referendum about independence as long as it is overseen by independent observers.

They should, but for some reason they don't get. Russia was proposing a federal structure for Ukraine, but for some reason Kiew and the West remain silent.

Otherwise Russian "freedom fighters" should be send to Russia.

Sounds like ethnic cleansing.

It amazes me how Russians are afraid of the West, to the point of panic and desperation, and believe that only Russia can give them a good life.

There are many reasons. One is that the east Ukraine is completely dependent on Russian economy, it would have no place in the western markets.
The number of so-called "russians" increases:

the special police from Ukraine "Berkut" in Donezk refuses to obey orders from Kiev and stays on side the citizens from Donetzk

 

[LeBrok]

They should, but for some reason they don't get. Russia was proposing a federal structure for Ukraine, but for some reason Kiew and the West remain silent.

After what Russia did with Crimea, who is going to listen to Putin's reasoning?

Sounds like ethnic cleansing.

Possibly, though they gave up the peaceful option, making a change through political process. They also declared themselves Russians wanting to join Russia. What would you do if they don't stop their militaristic, anti Ukrainian, actions?

There are many reasons. One is that the east Ukraine is completely dependent on Russian economy, it would have no place in the western markets.
The number of so-called "russians" increases:

I don't see much of a problem of Western Ukraine having good economic ties with Russia. It is up to Russia to be a good neighbor and play fair, which should benefit both sides. Besides, how much ties with Russia benefited Ukraine? Judging by GDP not much if anything at all. How much worse their situation can get when opened to the West too?
As I mentioned before I'm seeing extreme panic, unrealistic fear of the West, among ethnic Russians. I would love to see new Ukrainian government to be reassuring towards Russian minorities, with garanties that they won't be treated any different than Ukrainians, and freedoms to travel to Russia.

 

[Ike]

Wrong

Wrong

Clearly applies to you.

Wow, now it is a religious issue, lol. Obviously CIA is Catholic too, lol.

Cutting yourself from the past is healthy, it means closure. Did you mean hang on to the past? If Yugoslavia/Serbia had cut its ties to the past we wouldn't have had the Balkan war.

Typical Ike's exaggeration. Many Poles love Russian culture, but they still hate Putin, Stalin and Lenin.

Everybody wants to get Ike, the CIA, the Germans, the Catholics, the gays, the Albanians, etc. I'm surprised you can find a place to hid in this crazy world, lol. Tell us what it is called in psychology? It has to be some kind of phobia.

Typical blabbering of the CIA agent wanting to find excuse for the crimes done. How much do they pay you? Or you've sold your services just for the green card?

 

[Aberdeen]

Typical blabbering of the CIA agent wanting to find excuse for the crimes done. How much do they pay you? Or you've sold your services just for the green card?

You're mistaken, Ike. The CIA didn't give LeBrok a green card in exchange for his propaganda efforts. The Canadian Security and Intelligence Service gave him landed immigrant status in exchange for those propaganda efforts. You see, Canada has a plan to take over the Ukraine in order to extract its coal, right after we overthrow the government of your country. You're getting paranoid about the wrong conspirators.

 

[Ike]

OK, correction accepted. I will agree with you
I had doubts that CSIC was cooperating in major projects with CIA for years. Finally acknowledgement

 

[LeBrok]

Hey Ike, what do you think about Russians occupying government buildings in East Ukraine. Are they Russian agents and agitators sent by Putin or only local ethnic Russians?

 

[Ike]

Dunno, I really don't care anymore to take this subject with ya. You know, nazists killed a lot of my family members but for mentioning them I'm implicitly labeled as paranoid, while you are mentioning a guy that died 60 years ago and cry-babying 'cause you didn't have a discoball, r'n'r and gay rights. No prob dude, think what you like ...

 

[LeBrok]

Dunno, I really don't care anymore to take this subject with ya. You know, nazists killed a lot of my family members but for mentioning them I'm implicitly labeled as paranoid, while you are mentioning a guy that died 60 years ago and cry-babying 'cause you didn't have a discoball, r'n'r and gay rights. No prob dude, think what you like ...

I think you are scared to go on a record.

 

[Ua'Ronain]

I guess I will just leave this here, I sure hope it is fake but you never know.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...-ordered-to-register-in-east-ukraine/7816951/

 

[martiko]

Dunno, I really don't care anymore to take this subject with ya. You know, nazists killed a lot of my family members but for mentioning them I'm implicitly labeled as paranoid, while you are mentioning a guy that died 60 years ago and cry-babying 'cause you didn't have a discoball, r'n'r and gay rights. No prob dude, think what you like ...

what you say is irrelevant, I do not know if your father and mother are killed by the Nazis, so I wonder que?ge have, you drooling like an old worn azvec your disk. Pace the Nazis razed the city of my parents I have an excuse to do evil around me against the innocent.