Echetlaeus
Hero of Marathon
Yes, what I mean as Asia, is the non Greco-Roman world.
The impact of Asian "barbarism" in the European continent: thoughts
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ΠΑΝΑΞ
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Barbarolexis.
Barbarians it is just the "others", they sound when they talking like -(v)ar, (v)ar,(v)ar,...(?)
,for the greeks - "Βάρβαρος" ,{Vάrvaros} is every other non speaking Greek; Hellenics; either is just an other nation; people; kingdom;
Everyone which, spoke an uknown and weird sounded language, it was consider as Barbarian and thats all.
First HOMER at Iliad, uses the word , -Bαρβαρόφωνος ,{varvarόfonοs} = Bάρβαρη φωνή ~ mean. foreign language. [Ομήρου Ιλιάδα - Β 867].
to describe the "Κάρες"- trojan allies which they originated at Anatolia; south minor Asia;
So at the first days, it wasn't so negative meaning, but the thinks change after the persian rule on Minor Asia and the Greek-Persian wars,
the word from now and on will considerered also as rude, uncivilised, savage,... etc. etc, but also for the first time Plato and Aristotle give the main difference beetween Hellenes and Barbarians. It is just the will of the free people against the will of tyrrants and their humble servants...
The Romans used the word to derify the Greeks(Hellenes) and theirselves from all the other, non latin or non greek speaking people as Barbarians .( Latin -barbarus).
Apostotle Paul; Aπόστολος Παύλος, use the word as:
Έλλήσι τε και βαρβάροις, σοφοίς και ανοήτεις... (ρωμ. 1,14)
~ Hellens(greeks) and Barbarians, wisepeoples and fools(
... (the translate it is not the official, Holy spirit im not heretic!) mean.~ all the world;
I also want to share the leema Barbarolexis. (latin) and Bαρβαρισμός.(greek) Both words descript, Grammar and literature issues like those which they apply on this post while you reading it... (My English is awful but i give a try, i make mistakes using foreign words-(barbarolexis) and by mistake give an other mean or an other use of the word, so this is for the scholars -( Βαρβαρισμός, Barbarisme.)
The character of cruel, wild, rough, looter, destroyer, blasphemer... and all this nice things we appreciate and share all the europeans who commoned together, we find at the word -Vandale; Wandahl; Vandalisme; (Germ.origin invaders) and recently at the brand new Taliban's ( Μuslim extremmists).
I conclude, there is no Asian, African, whatever barbarism. It is just fear or wonder for the unknown opposite people.
If I understand well enough, the impact of all these different cultures as you asking makes Europe the most interesting continent and me offtopic trying to explain greeks to europindians!
Barbarians it is just the "others", they sound when they talking like -(v)ar, (v)ar,(v)ar,...(?)
,for the greeks - "Βάρβαρος" ,{Vάrvaros} is every other non speaking Greek; Hellenics; either is just an other nation; people; kingdom;
Everyone which, spoke an uknown and weird sounded language, it was consider as Barbarian and thats all.
First HOMER at Iliad, uses the word , -Bαρβαρόφωνος ,{varvarόfonοs} = Bάρβαρη φωνή ~ mean. foreign language. [Ομήρου Ιλιάδα - Β 867].
to describe the "Κάρες"- trojan allies which they originated at Anatolia; south minor Asia;
So at the first days, it wasn't so negative meaning, but the thinks change after the persian rule on Minor Asia and the Greek-Persian wars,
the word from now and on will considerered also as rude, uncivilised, savage,... etc. etc, but also for the first time Plato and Aristotle give the main difference beetween Hellenes and Barbarians. It is just the will of the free people against the will of tyrrants and their humble servants...
The Romans used the word to derify the Greeks(Hellenes) and theirselves from all the other, non latin or non greek speaking people as Barbarians .( Latin -barbarus).
Apostotle Paul; Aπόστολος Παύλος, use the word as:
Έλλήσι τε και βαρβάροις, σοφοίς και ανοήτεις... (ρωμ. 1,14)
~ Hellens(greeks) and Barbarians, wisepeoples and fools(
... (the translate it is not the official, Holy spirit im not heretic!) mean.~ all the world;I also want to share the leema Barbarolexis. (latin) and Bαρβαρισμός.(greek) Both words descript, Grammar and literature issues like those which they apply on this post while you reading it... (My English is awful but i give a try, i make mistakes using foreign words-(barbarolexis) and by mistake give an other mean or an other use of the word, so this is for the scholars -( Βαρβαρισμός, Barbarisme.)
The character of cruel, wild, rough, looter, destroyer, blasphemer... and all this nice things we appreciate and share all the europeans who commoned together, we find at the word -Vandale; Wandahl; Vandalisme; (Germ.origin invaders) and recently at the brand new Taliban's ( Μuslim extremmists).
I conclude, there is no Asian, African, whatever barbarism. It is just fear or wonder for the unknown opposite people.
If I understand well enough, the impact of all these different cultures as you asking makes Europe the most interesting continent and me offtopic trying to explain greeks to europindians!
Taranis
Elite member
Welcome to Eupedia, Panax. A small note there though, the letter Beta was actually pronounced /b/ in ancient Greek, at least to the start of the Hellenistic period (probably later). It was only by the Middle Ages (Byzantine Greek) that this decisively changed to /v/. So, it would have indeed been "Barbaroi", not "Varvaroi" in ancient Greek.
Echetlaeus
Hero of Marathon
I think Taranis is right, if we consider how Aristophanes describes the way that a sheep bleats. "ΒΕ-ΒΕ" is more likely to sound like ΒΕ-ΒΕ, rather than VE-VE ...
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Thank you Taranis, you definetely right. I enjoy your posts and very happy to get know you!
Echetlaus, my grands father sheeps bleet like -vee, vee! Probably they cannot hide their Konatantinopolitan/ Byzantine origin!
If you and the "others" ( Barbarians; ha ha ha, just a joke!) dont mind i would like to share a moment of this impact as we like to say... with fully Platonic way without Aristotelic terms and definitions etc, etc.
The poet is Konstantinos Kavafis and the poem is "Waiting for the Barbarians".
(C.P. Cavafy, Collected Poems. Translated by Edmund Keeley and Philip Sherrard. Edited by George Savidis. Revised Edition. Princeton University Press, 1992)
Im'not sure if really answer this thread of Echetleaus but...
Hope to like it Eurobarbarians!
Echetlaus, my grands father sheeps bleet like -vee, vee! Probably they cannot hide their Konatantinopolitan/ Byzantine origin!
If you and the "others" ( Barbarians; ha ha ha, just a joke!) dont mind i would like to share a moment of this impact as we like to say... with fully Platonic way without Aristotelic terms and definitions etc, etc.
The poet is Konstantinos Kavafis and the poem is "Waiting for the Barbarians".
(C.P. Cavafy, Collected Poems. Translated by Edmund Keeley and Philip Sherrard. Edited by George Savidis. Revised Edition. Princeton University Press, 1992)
Οοοps! Iwould like to post it but... some other time.
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Hope to like it Eurobarbarians!
Echetlaeus
Hero of Marathon
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