Politics EU Enlargement and Russia: Possible Marriage?

Should Russia become an EU member?

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 35.7%
  • No

    Votes: 9 64.3%

  • Total voters
    14
The invasion of the Caucasus was pretty bloody, so don't think too highly of Russian imperialism. Russian history is not made of saints either. To be honest I don't see very little difference right now between pro-russians and the Ukrainian right sector(minus peaceful Euromaidan protestors) -except the first one is better armed. Both have an unhealthy obsession with nationality.
Isn't it funny? They hate each other the most but they are exactly the same.
 
Anton uses a lot of "tu quoque" argumentation which is all to often a sign of proud people with poor debating skills. Putin reacts in the same way by the way if he's asked about some human rights issues, first he denies the critical remarks and than he uses tu quoqe arguments. http://www.zie.nl/video/algemeen/Rusland-discrimineert-homos-niet/m1nzctmfg8j2

In other words: "You are saying there is something wrong with us? Look at yourself there is even something more wrong about you guys(...you hypocrites).

So according to Anton, everything seems to be legitimized as long as we all are labelled as hypocrites. "So everyone shut up, this is not your business, stop criticising, because in the end we all are hypocrites"; which in itself I suppose is a thought terminating cliché.

I have no problem to admit that we made mistakes ourself, Anton. ... so keep up with comparing the mistakes that we made with the Russian mistakes if that makes you happy.
 
What you call an "invasion" of western allies was for many a liberation and it still is, unlike the Soviet "liberation" which was perceived as an occupation only shortly after.

American "liberation" not very much different from the Soviet, they were just more convinient for western Europe since they support free market and stuff... but also establish puppet governments, rewriting history books, marginalizing the countries they being present, creating "doggy" elites, countries with yankee occupation lose any kind of independence. I am hardly can image European governments could call for Americans to come and take their sovereignty in any other conditions.
If you think that all Hitler's mistakes were fixed when communists left captured part of Europe then you are mistaking, that's only half of the deal.
Anyway, your fate into your hands, if everything is suits you then nice. Maybe to be a puppet is your level, born to crawl can not fly. I am will not tear my hair on this occasion.
From my personal point of view the Germany started all this mess in 1939, so responsibility for the salvation of west Europe is theirs
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The invasion of the Caucasus was pretty bloody, so don't think too highly of Russian imperialism. Russian history is not made of saints either.

Russia and does not pretend to be a saint
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where I am wrote that Russia is saint?
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About Chechnya wanna say that there is was no alternative. By invading Dagestan radical muslims showed that they can't live in peace, only constant war. It was necessary to eliminate the fundamentalist nest.

To be honest I don't see very little difference right now between pro-russians and the Ukrainian right sector(minus peaceful Euromaidan protestors) -except the first one is better armed. Both have an unhealthy obsession with nationality.

Modern Ukraine is failed state, no wonder that it's full of radical forces. I am just wanna say that "to calm" that country can only seperation on two (as minimum) parts.

Well, let's see how the Americans see the trade agreement, when they have to apply EU regulations on their products :p...hell, those bloody communists in Europe! Do we really have to do this from now on?

According to that agreement European agriculture will be destroyed by cheap GMO food of American corporations. American corporations currently bribing EU politicians.

I am wish to Lebrok to eat more GMO "Monsanto" food, maybe when second head will grow out of his a** he will become smarter
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Aw, not so harsh about Obama, he did achieve more than George Bush did. And this case he made a huge difference even he had some serious opposition.

Bush was a true face of America, crazy imperialist cowboy who invades countries because "lack of democracy there" lol
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Now Obama wanna make it look that nothing had happened. Actually have nothing against him, but he is unfortunately a puppet. Like a hired manager for 100 richest American families.
 
Anyway, your fate into your hands, if everything is suits you then nice. Maybe to be a puppet is your level, born to crawl can not fly. I am will not tear my hair on this occasion.

Well, as long as I don't feel a hand in my a**, I am pretty confident that I'll do fine. Once you believe what is broadcasted on "Voice of Russia"(Russian Fox news) or similair Russian medium however, you might catch that paranoid sensation you are suffering from, so be careful.
 
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Anton uses a lot of "tu quoque" argumentation which is all to often a sign of proud people with poor debating skills. Putin reacts in the same way by the way if he's asked about some human rights issues, first he denies the critical remarks and than he uses tu quoqe arguments. http://www.zie.nl/video/algemeen/Rusland-discrimineert-homos-niet/m1nzctmfg8j2

In other words: "You are saying there is something wrong with us? Look at yourself there is even something more wrong about you guys(...you hypocrites).
.
Spot on observation, plus ridicule, twist facts, ridicule.
 
Russia will not want to join ... and to think Germany and France want Russia to join is fantasy ... Never because Russia is too large and would become to important part of EU if join.
 
The Yankees started this whole mess in the Ukraine just because they are afraid of integration of Russia and Germany / EU. Ukraine is now playing the role of the separating wedge between.
 
Yes, by force is bad, by choice is good. And for that reason Russia lost many countries from it's Union (Soviet Union included) and EU gained. Perhaps for russian mindset it is the same thing, but not to the free world.


I think viewpoint of Poles and Czech tend to be skewed on the issue. There is a tendency (not saying it is also the case with you) to blame Russians for Soviet Union misdeeds. But Russia is often left out in enumerating victims of Soviet regime. Think of all Russians who ended up in concentration camps in Siberia. Remind yourself that Russia as a country did not grow with creation of Soviet Union but has shrinked. E.g. it lost Crimea and Georgia and many other parts. It did not get parts inhabited by Russians as you would expect that conquering nation would do. Remember that the key figures of Soviet Union were not really Russian. as far as I remember Lenin was Jewish, Stalin was Georgian, and Khrushchev was Ukrainian. In fact, first actual Russian that got real importance in political elite of USSR was probably Gorbachev.Now were really Russians the ones who ruled over others by force or was it others (communists) ruling over Russians, Czechs, Poles, Ukrainians and all other people in Soviet Union and eastern block...In fact I am convinced that you are not blaming modern Germans for Hitler and his nationalistic ideology, while you tend to blame Russians for anti-national ideology that ruled over them and for deeds of e.g. Stalin (Georgian and not Russian).

I mention this because similar happened with ex-Yugoslavia. Tito was half Croat half Slovene. Many, in fact most, chief political figures were also Croats and Slovenes and yet in 90s Croat and Slovene media were screaming their guts out about THEM being occupied politically and economically in that ex Yugoslavia, completely disregarding the facts e.g. that Croatia and Slovenia were pushed or allowed (depending on perspective) to be economically most developed, that Catholic Croats and Slovenes were allowed to be religious and nationally aware while Orthodox Serbs could end up jobless or even imprisoned if insisting on being religious or nationally aware, that advantage is given to latin script over the cyrilic and that in addition communist regime gave a separate republic to Croats, to Slovenes, to Macedonians, but did split core ethnic space of Serbs in 4 (Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro and Serbia) out of 6 republics and did additionally split Serbia with introducing 2 autonomous provinces ruled by communists from minorities living in those parts of Serbia. Hence based on all this its hard to see how were Croats and Slovenes suppressed in any way politically, historically, economically or culturally. No surprise that a mass hysteria of mass media, coupled with history of conflicts in last century, and with artificial borders brought up by political elite of communist Yugoslavia, led to wars.

Not saying that Czech republic was not shamefully occupied in 1968th. Just stating that Russians themselves were occupied by such a regime in 1917th. Try to see it from their perspective. Just because they were most numerous in such a state doesnot mean they were not victims of such state and ideology. And I am certainly not comparing position of Czechs and Polish in Soviet block to role of Croatia and Slovenia in ex-Yugoslavia. Political elite of Croatia and Slovenia was in fact leading communist Yugoslavia, which is not the case for political elite of Czechoslovakia or Poland. But compare e.g. right of Russians to be religious with right of Czechs and Poles to be religious. Before blaming Russians think of all the Russians ending up in concentration camps in Siberia.
 
Ha-ha-ha. So when the EU incorporates and absorbs countries it's always for the good but when Russia does it it's always for the bad.
Depends. EU didn't forced any country to incorporate within. I can't say the same for Russia
 
Yes, by force is bad, by choice is good. And for that reason Russia lost many countries from it's Union (Soviet Union included) and EU gained. Perhaps for russian mindset it is the same thing, but not to the free world.
Between Russia and EU is a big huge and large gap: the democracy
 
The Yankees started this whole mess in the Ukraine just because they are afraid of integration of Russia and Germany / EU. Ukraine is now playing the role of the separating wedge between.
There are not throughout Ukraine American soldiers. But there are already Russian soldiers in Crimea and on east south Ukraine. Two Russian soldiers were captured by the Ukraine army inside Ukraine. Russian invaded Crimea and after that they held the referendum, which really was manipulated.
 
There are not throughout Ukraine American soldiers. But there are already Russian soldiers in Crimea and on east south Ukraine. Two Russian soldiers were captured by the Ukraine army inside Ukraine. Russian invaded Crimea and after that they held the referendum, which really was manipulated.

What does the actual potential show? US military spending is higher than that of all countries in the world taken together. The aggregate military spending of NATO countries is 10 times, note – 10 times higher than that of the Russian Federation. Russia has virtually no bases abroad. We have the remnants of our armed forces (since Soviet times) in Tajikistan, on the border with Afghanistan, which is an area where the terrorist threat is particularly high. The same role is played by our airbase in Kyrgyzstan; it is also aimed at addressing the terrorist threat and was set up at the request of the Kyrgyz authorities after a terrorist attack perpetrated by terrorists from Afghanistan on Kyrgyzstan.
http://www.mintpressnews.com/putin-...-difference-between-russia-and-the-us/206343/
 
From Russian point of view Russia can't be a part of EU but EU itself can be a part of Russia.
 
Will never happen. But most importantly is that the EU must change. It must drop "ever closer union" because the European people do not want this. It should remain as a confederation or at least very close alliance. No more open borders. Military cooperation, and economic cooperation are good. Decentralization must happen as soon as possible, no rule from Brussels. The Islamophile elite must be voted out, and Europe should pursue a closer alliance with America, Canada, Israel, and India.

The new European Union should make it a priority to defend Western civilization and values. Europe must stand strong against Russia, China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Qatar. The incompetence and Islamophilia have forced angry right-wing movements to turn to Putin and Russia who is benefiting from the collapse of the Union. They are exploiting Europe's weakness. But I am hoping that when the EU is reformed Herzegovina and Republika Srpska can break away from Islamic Bosnia and then join the union. Kosovo and Bosnia should be excluded, as they are Islamic. Albania is becoming less Islamic and supports European values so they should be allowed.
 
People love to have a romantic idea of the nation and sovereignty. This has its justification, and national sentiments have their weight but should not be exaggerated. We live in 21. century, and many things have changed. Loose union cannot work. Small European countries cannot compete with giants in the world, it is a loosing battle. Only strong union can compete including one currency, banking union, fiscal union, political union and federalization. It is European path.
 
People love to have a romantic idea of the nation and sovereignty. This has its justification, and national sentiments have their weight but should not be exaggerated. We live in 21. century, and many things have changed. Loose union cannot work. Small European countries cannot compete with giants in the world, it is a loosing battle. Only strong union can compete including one currency, banking union, fiscal union, political union and federalization. It is European path.

Not if the people do not want it. If sovereign nations can't function in the modern world then maybe this is a problem with the modern world. The argument that you make is made by most European federalists and is fundamentally flawed. Independence movements are happening all over the world; the people do not want to live in a superstate. Even the nations you mention that European countries cannot compete with have problems with independence movements. Russia is collapsing and has no control over the Caucasus ethnic republics. America is increasingly divided by various political ideologies and regional differences (but in my opinion should be a friend of Europe). Even Mexico now has secessionist movements, and China cannot maintain its iron grip over the population. Also it is because of liberal Europhiles that Islam is threatening European culture and values, so your project wouldn't even work as it is.
 
Not if the people do not want it. If sovereign nations can't function in the modern world then maybe this is a problem with the modern world. The argument that you make is made by most European federalists and is fundamentally flawed. Independence movements are happening all over the world; the people do not want to live in a superstate. Even the nations you mention that European countries cannot compete with have problems with independence movements. Russia is collapsing and has no control over the Caucasus ethnic republics. America is increasingly divided by various political ideologies and regional differences (but in my opinion should be a friend of Europe). Even Mexico now has secessionist movements, and China cannot maintain its iron grip over the population. Also it is because of liberal Europhiles that Islam is threatening European culture and values, so your project wouldn't even work as it is.

Just opposite. Small European states nations cannot prevent Islamic extremists. But strong EU can. EU border forces can protect south borders very efficient.

National romance can be beautiful, however this is 21. century where it is easy to look at the advantages and disadvantages of some options. Certainly superstate can become reality. The euro zone will expand to the whole EU, banking union is on verge, fiscal union should more time however it will see the light of day.

Europhiles can have different ideologies, it doesn't matter if they more right or left, in general people do not have to be Europhiles, interests and opportunities that exist in superstate make it much desirable option for most people. Bigger state = bigger opportunities for individual, small state = narrowness of opportunities.
 
From Russian point of view Russia can't be a part of EU but EU itself can be a part of Russia.

Russia has the right approach. They are trying to create their own union as a counterweight to the EU. But it makes sense for Russia to join NATO. Russia can not defend their borders against China, Afghanistan. Chinese have immediate plans to overtake Mongolia and after that the Sino-Russian border will become unprotected. The participation of Russia in NATO will be a deterrent
 

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