Politics EU Enlargement and Russia: Possible Marriage?

Should Russia become an EU member?

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 35.7%
  • No

    Votes: 9 64.3%

  • Total voters
    14
European Union can function as loose union of soverign nations, with common trade market.

No orthodox country should be allowed in the EU, especially not Russia.
 
European Union can function as loose union of soverign nations, with common trade market.

It is only one of phase towards fully integration.

Phases after common market are: Economic union, Economic and Monetary union, Fiscal union and Complete integration - Political union.

European Union is economic union (common market with a custom union).

Eurozone is economic union and monetary union (with euro as currency).

All EU countries will introduce euro and become Eurozone members (it is just a matter of time).

Fiscal union is integration of fiscal and budgetary policy of member states, it is next step.

Political union is federalist system, it is final step.


No orthodox country should be allowed in the EU, especially not Russia.

You think Greece, Bulgaria, and Romania should be out of EU?

And what it means orthodox country?

In Greece, Bulgaria and Romania which are members of European union, as in Macedonia, Serbia and Montenegro which are in the process of joining the EU, and in Moldova, etc. (which will be in process in future time) religion is separated from state. They are secular states not religious states. In these countries there are Orthodox Christians, Protestant Christians, Catholic Christians, Muslims, Atheists, etc., everyone is free to chose religion which want or to be non believer. European Union is not based on religion, every European country can be part of EU.
 
It is only one of phase towards fully integration.

Phases after common market are: Economic union, Economic and Monetary union, Fiscal union and Complete integration - Political union.

European Union is economic union (common market with a custom union).

Eurozone is economic union and monetary union (with euro as currency).

All EU countries will introduce euro and become Eurozone members (it is just a matter of time).

Fiscal union is integration of fiscal and budgetary policy of member states, it is next step.

Political union is federalist system, it is final step.

Federalism suits interest of countries like Germany and France, as it would speedy their economic and political domination in the Union.

No other country wants it, espacially not mass immigration and radicalism that is currently flourisning in heart of the EU.

Fiscal Union was already a mistake. Smaller countries that have kept their fiscal indipendence fared better than members of the Eurozone.

Eu should be nothing more than trade Union, as it was originally designed.




You think Greece, Bulgaria, and Romania should be out of EU?


And what it means orthodox country?

In Greece, Bulgaria and Romania which are members of European union, as in Macedonia, Serbia and Montenegro which are in the process of joining the EU, and in Moldova, etc. (which will be in process in future time) religion is separated from state. They are secular states not religious states. In these countries there are Orthodox Christians, Protestant Christians, Catholic Christians, Muslims, Atheists, etc., everyone is free to chose religion which want or to be non believer. European Union is not based on religion, every European country can be part of EU.

Greece is failure, money leeching country in constant state of near-bankrupcy.

Romania and Bulgaria are poorest members of the EU, their biggest countribution being export of Gypsy criminals trough out the West. Mind that EU does not benefit them either, as most of their educated population left the country.

Orthodox countries are secular on paper only, it is one of main reasons of their poor socioeconomic development. Russia is no exception, and already has Eurasian economic Union. They are anti European traditionally, and nobody wants them closer.

I don't see differennce in admitting Russia or Turkey, both should stay out.
 
European Union can function as loose union of soverign nations, with common trade market.

No orthodox country should be allowed in the EU, especially not Russia.

just a question,

protestants and muslims are allowed to EU?
pagans and animists should be allowed to EU?
Hindu Buddists and Sintoists ?

which religion should be allowed to EU?
 
just a question,

protestants and muslims are allowed to EU?
pagans and animists should be allowed to EU?
Hindu Buddists and Sintoists ?

Islam is not welcome in Europe for sure.

Comparison of Protestants with Orthodox is impossible, since Protestant Churches are not politically tied to host country, neither influence them in any significant manner.

North-West Europe is mainly irreligious today. Problem with Orthdox countries is not religious, but rather culturo-political.
 
Islam is not welcome in Europe for sure.

Comparison of Protestants with Orthodox is impossible, since Protestant Churches are not politically tied to host country, neither influence them in any significant manner.

North-West Europe is mainly irreligious today. Problem with Orthdox countries is not religious, but rather culturo-political.

so by what I see you want EU to be a catholic coalition,
then England did well and vote Brexit since they are protestants,
correct?
 
Federalism suits interest of countries like Germany and France, as it would speedy their economic and political domination in the Union.

No other country wants it, espacially not mass immigration and radicalism that is currently flourisning in heart of the EU.

Fiscal Union was already a mistake. Smaller countries that have kept their fiscal indipendence fared better than members of the Eurozone.

Eu should be nothing more than trade Union, as it was originally designed.

European union today is economic union, three steps ahead free trade area, two steps ahead customs union, and step ahead common market.

Eurozone is economic and monetary union, step ahead economic union.

Yes there are proponents of divergent trends, but it is hard to happen, it is more likely that all EU members will become members of Eurozone (including Croatia).

Next steps are banking union (what is certain) and fiscal union (what requires some more time).

Final step is political union (federal system).

Greece is failure, money leeching country in constant state of near-bankrupcy.

Romania and Bulgaria are poorest members of the EU, their biggest countribution being export of Gypsy criminals trough out the West. Mind that EU does not benefit them either, as most of their educated population left the country. Orthodox countries are secular on paper only, it is one of main reasons of their poor socioeconomic development.

Greece has bigger GDP (PPP) per capita than Croatia.

IMF (2015) GDP (PPP) per capita, Int$

44. Greece, 26,449

57. Croatia, 21,581

And Romania is very close to Croatia.

59. Romania, 20,787

When were you in Romania? Some parts in Romania are more developed than in Croatia.

If we speak about debt, yes Greece has large debt, but Croatia has larger debt than Romania and Bulgaria.

Countries by external debt, $ per capita, IMF data

Greece 47,636

Croatia 13,519

Bulgaria 6,261

Romania 4,485

Greece, Romania and Bulgaria are not secular only in paper, thinking that these countries are not secular is nonsense.

And Greece is the cradle of democracy.


Russia is no exception, and already has Eurasian economic Union. They are anti European traditionally, and nobody wants them closer.

I don't see differennce in admitting Russia or Turkey, both should stay out.

Yes, Russia has Eurasian union. Russia is completely different story, this country has much bigger territory in Asia than in Europe. Russia never demanded to be EU member, and it is surely Russia will not demand to be EU member.

Turkey and European Union have long relations and negotiations. Turkey application is from 1987. Negotiations started 2005. We will see if Turkey will become EU member. Someone should not have prejudices against Turkey. Every candidate for EU must fulfill standards and requirements, but slow process of Turkish accession to EU is due to non-fullfilment of requirements. From present-day perspective it is possible that Turkey is not ready for EU yet, but maybe it can be changed in future, who knows.
 
European union today is economic union, three steps ahead free trade area, two steps ahead customs union, and step ahead common market.

Eurozone is economic and monetary union, step ahead economic union.

Yes there are proponents of divergent trends, but it is hard to happen, it is more likely that all EU members will become members of Eurozone (including Croatia).

Next steps are banking union (what is certain) and fiscal union (what requires some more time).

Final step is political union (federal system).

You're ignoring the fact that most people inside EU reject such ideas.


Greece has bigger GDP (PPP) per capita than Croatia.

IMF (2015) GDP (PPP) per capita, Int$

44. Greece, 26,449

57. Croatia, 21,581

Greece is in worse shape than Croatia. EU member since 1981, compared to socialist background of other Eastern European countries. It's unlikely comparison, however, average Greek does not live better than Croatian.

And Romania is very close to Croatia.

59. Romania, 20,787

When were you in Romania? Some parts in Romania are more developed than in Croatia.

Romania has lot poorer infrastructure than Croatia. Romanians come to work to Adriatic as cheap workforce. Lately they are making positive progress, but it's a long way to go.

If we speak about debt, yes Greece has large debt, but Croatia has larger debt than Romania and Bulgaria.

Countries by external debt, $ per capita, IMF data

Greece 47,636

Croatia 13,519

Bulgaria 6,261

Romania 4,485

Romania and Bulgaria are in the EU six years longer than Croatia, and they are still less developed. I didn't say Croatia is a sucessful country (especially considering last decade), either.

Greece, Romania and Bulgaria are not secular only in paper, thinking that these countries are not secular is nonsense.

Orthodox Church has been traditionally anti-European (means Western)oriented, with close ties to Moscow.

And Greece is the cradle of democracy.

Switzerland has lot more in common with ancient Greek democRacy than modern Greece.


Yes, Russia has Eurasian union. Russia is completely different story, this country has much bigger territory in Asia than in Europe. Russia never demanded to be EU member, and it is surely Russia will not demand to be EU member.

Turkey and European Union have long relations and negotiations. Turkey application is from 1987. Negotiations started 2005. We will see if Turkey will become EU member. Someone should not have prejudices against Turkey. Every candidate for EU must fulfill standards and requirements, but slow process of Turkish accession to EU is due to non-fullfilment of requirements. From present-day perspective it is possible that Turkey is not ready for EU yet, but maybe it can be changed in future, who knows.

Yes, Russia will never have particular interest in joining the EU for well known reasons, but it is the thread's main question, even though it's competely unrealistic.

Neo-Ottoman Turkey with open Islamist as their president, flooded with terorists and other problems, should have never become member of the EU.
 
You're ignoring the fact that most people inside EU reject such ideas.

Mostly nationalists and skeptics don't accept. In post #62 is natural path of integration, experts have long written about it and politicians accepted.

Fully integration is the best for European people, and it offers most opportunities for every individual. Of course, if people in any country don't want their country will be out of that system. But it is small number of countries, because advantages fiscal and political union are much bigger than custom or trade union which is at the lower level of development.

Greece is in worse shape than Croatia. EU member since 1981, compared to socialist background of other Eastern European countries. It's unlikely comparison, however, average Greek does not live better than Croatian.

Romania has lot poorer infrastructure than Croatia. Romanians come to work to Adriatic as cheap workforce. Lately they are making positive progress, but it's a long way to go.

Romania and Bulgaria are in the EU six years longer than Croatia, and they are still less developed. I didn't say Croatia is a sucessful country (especially considering last decade), either.

Statistics is merciless. Croatia is not superior to Greece and Romania, in some ways is better, in some ways is weaker. Croatia was significantly ahead Romania in eighties, and today these two countries are very close.

But essence is that there is no reason to exclude Greece, Romania and Bulgaria out of EU or not to accept Serbia and Montenegro. European Union is not Catholic union, it is union of European countries.

Orthodox Church has been traditionally anti-European (means Western)oriented, with close ties to Moscow.

For many years (during the USSR) Russian Orthodox church had no influence among Orthodox churches. In ecclesiastical matters traditionally Ecumenical Patriarch (Constantinople) has the greatest influence. But those are church issues, few people are interested in this.

Switzerland has lot more in common with ancient Greek democRacy than modern Greece.

Greece is cradle of democracy, and now Greek people are very democratic, more than anyone in Balkans and beyond.

Yes, Russia will never have particular interest in joining the EU for well known reasons, but it is the thread's main question, even though it's competely unrealistic.

Neo-Ottoman Turkey with open Islamist as their president, flooded with terorists and other problems, should have never become member of the EU.

Yes, Russia is clear story, it will never want to be member of EU.

For Turkey situation is different, because Turkey liked to be member of EU, and a lot of Turks wanted accession, but for present day situation I can agree with you, unfortunately Neo-Ottomanism is in agenda these days in Turkey. Maybe situation can be changed.
 
Russia has become a hot topic these days due to the events of Crimea. Although these are clearly sad events in our modern history as a continent, one has to account that Russia has played an important role in shaping Europe's history and it is considered a part of it, partially because of land, but also because of its civilization. Therefore I was wondering if Russia will ever become a member or EU in the (probably far) future.

What are your thoughts about that? Would you like Russia in or out?
I don't know if it will ... but it should. We have become saturated with 'culture' from the west. No, I don't mean the west - I mean from the far west, over seas. NATO is an evil entity. Europe must disengage from it and sever its influence. The situation in the Crimea is minor compared to what Europe has had to endure (and crimes we've been duped into committing) by following NATO. Should we look to the east for friendship and cooperation? I think so, probably yes. If I think of Europe and America and Russia as 3 separate plots upon the earth, and then consider the "us" and "them" aspect of modern-day, political/cultural juxtapositioning .... then I believe we are better off cooperating with this new Russian plan. Continuing to tag along with those other people have brought the world nothing but death and destruction.
 
European Union can function as loose union of soverign nations, with common trade market.

No orthodox country should be allowed in the EU, especially not Russia.

But the EU already has three Orthodox members, Greece, Romania and Bulgaria.

The idea of Russia in the EU is several decades and many reforms ahead of us, probably never.
 
Federalism suits interest of countries like Germany and France, as it would speedy their economic and political domination in the Union.

No other country wants it, espacially not mass immigration and radicalism that is currently flourisning in heart of the EU.

Fiscal Union was already a mistake. Smaller countries that have kept their fiscal indipendence fared better than members of the Eurozone.

Eu should be nothing more than trade Union, as it was originally designed.






Greece is failure, money leeching country in constant state of near-bankrupcy.
Maybe you should try to survive a week next to Turkey, in order to grasp the magnitude of the problem. If Greece falls, the next defense line shall be at the gates of Vienna...
Romania and Bulgaria are poorest members of the EU, their biggest countribution being export of Gypsy criminals trough out the West. Mind that EU does not benefit them either, as most of their educated population left the country.

Orthodox countries are secular on paper only, it is one of main reasons of their poor socioeconomic development.
Greece is already majority Atheist/Agnostic, in spite of being Orthodox on paper. Corruption correlates with geography, not religion.
Russia is no exception, and already has Eurasian economic Union. They are anti European traditionally, and nobody wants them closer.
In fact Russia is neither "European" nor "anti-European.
I don't see differennce in admitting Russia or Turkey, both should stay out.
 
You're ignoring the fact that most people inside EU reject such ideas.




Greece is in worse shape than Croatia. EU member since 1981, compared to socialist background of other Eastern European countries. It's unlikely comparison, however, average Greek does not live better than Croatian.



Romania has lot poorer infrastructure than Croatia. Romanians come to work to Adriatic as cheap workforce. Lately they are making positive progress, but it's a long way to go.



Romania and Bulgaria are in the EU six years longer than Croatia, and they are still less developed. I didn't say Croatia is a sucessful country (especially considering last decade), either.



Orthodox Church has been traditionally anti-European (means Western)oriented, with close ties to Moscow.
Nope, the Patriarchate of Constantinople is independent of the Patriarchate of Moscow. The close ties between the Orthodox countries have more to do with the fact that nearly all of them have been at some point in history under Islamic rule, and they understand a few more things upon the issue...
Switzerland has lot more in common with ancient Greek democRacy than modern Greece.




Yes, Russia will never have particular interest in joining the EU for well known reasons, but it is the thread's main question, even though it's competely unrealistic.

Neo-Ottoman Turkey with open Islamist as their president, flooded with terorists and other problems, should have never become member of the EU.
 
Russia has become a hot topic these days due to the events of Crimea. Although these are clearly sad events in our modern history as a continent, one has to account that Russia has played an important role in shaping Europe's history and it is considered a part of it, partially because of land, but also because of its civilization. Therefore I was wondering if Russia will ever become a member or EU in the (probably far) future.

What are your thoughts about that? Would you like Russia in or out?

I have read that after the fell of communism it was discussed this probabile membership of Russia in EU. The Russians laughed and answered to the Europeans with a question: What's the point guys, you want to join Russia?
 
I don't think most of the people in the US are against any type of Unions, as long as the purpose of the Union isn't to take over the states that have chosen not to join. The biggest problem is similar to what is happening in the state of Illinois. The largest population center (Chicago) is clueless to the lives of the southern half of the state. We drive 25 miles to go to our jobs, and are penalized with high gas prices that have been inflated with state taxes to support the massive road systems in Chicago. Property taxes, which are in part used to support the school systems, are also unequally divided within the state, with Chicago receiving ten times the per capita rate given to downstate schools, and downstate counties have a higher tax rate than Chicago.

So if the union is not equal, we see it as not beneficial.
 
My out-of-consensus expectation for this century is Russia will break up in many parts, and some of them will eventually join the EU. Russia will be a clear loser this century.
 
Spain will cooperate with Russia against misinformation, an area in which much of the interference detected in Western countries is attributed to Moscow. This is the main agreement reached on Tuesday by the Spanish Foreign Ministers, Josep Borrell, and Russian, Sergey Lavrov, during an official meeting held in Madrid. Borrell has transferred to Lavrov his "concern about spreading false news" regarding Catalonia and the Russian official has responded with an offer to create a joint forum to analyze the problem and try to stop it. Borrell has accepted.


The tension with Russia is appeased. "I am happy that you have launched this proposal to be able to analyze the problem, know what we are talking about and prevent it from being an element of friction," Borrell said in a joint press appearance. Aware that it may be paradoxical to agree with the representative of a country that is considered involved in these practices of manipulation, the minister said: "We have never said it was the Russian Government, but certain information came from Russian media. It's very sensible to speak professionally in this cybersecurity group. " Although Lavrov claims to have proposed similar arrangements for the whole of the European Union, for the moment cooperation will be bilateral between Madrid and Moscow.


MORE INFORMATION
Fake news reappears
Junk news in the United States is shared even more than in 2016
Foreign interference disturbs the Nordic countries
The mere visit of the Russian minister, one of the pillars of the Government of Vladimir Putin, is already representative of the thaw between the two countries. The last official trip of Lavrov took place in March of 2014, in full tension by the crisis of the Ukraine. Although Spain has always advocated maintaining good relations with its main eastern neighbor, the Russian invasion of the Crimean peninsula cut off almost all communication routes between Moscow and the EU, including Spanish ones. The allegations of Russian interference in favor of the Catalan independence speech - in the media and social networks - accentuated the unrest.


At the moment there are no details about when that working group will be constituted, even less about the most delicate element: who will integrate it. Strengthening ties with Russia in an area in which distrust of Moscow reigns is controversial for a country belonging to NATO. It is likely that the National Intelligence Center has something to say. Also the ambassador who appointed the previous PP Government last March to combat hybrid threats and promote cybersecurity, Julia Alicia Olmo and Romero. Beyond the domestic sphere, the Spanish essay can collide with the anti-propaganda exercise that Brussels has been leading since 2015 to combat false news originating in Russia.


Lavrov, who also met with the King, has denied the intrusions of his country, but at the same time has extended his hand to discuss the problem. "There is no evidence of Russian interference in Catalonia, Montenegro or Macedonia, I have talked about this with the Minister, interference in third-country affairs is inadmissible, we have to talk about these concerns not in front of the microphones, but presenting real events. "he has defended.
 
Spain will cooperate with Russia against misinformation, an area in which much of the interference detected in Western countries is attributed to Moscow. This is the main agreement reached on Tuesday by the Spanish Foreign Ministers, Josep Borrell, and Russian, Sergey Lavrov, during an official meeting held in Madrid. Borrell has transferred to Lavrov his "concern about spreading false news" regarding Catalonia and the Russian official has responded with an offer to create a joint forum to analyze the problem and try to stop it. Borrell has accepted.


The tension with Russia is appeased. "I am happy that you have launched this proposal to be able to analyze the problem, know what we are talking about and prevent it from being an element of friction," Borrell said in a joint press appearance. Aware that it may be paradoxical to agree with the representative of a country that is considered involved in these practices of manipulation, the minister said: "We have never said it was the Russian Government, but certain information came from Russian media. It's very sensible to speak professionally in this cybersecurity group. " Although Lavrov claims to have proposed similar arrangements for the whole of the European Union, for the moment cooperation will be bilateral between Madrid and Moscow.


MORE INFORMATION
Fake news reappears
Junk news in the United States is shared even more than in 2016
Foreign interference disturbs the Nordic countries
The mere visit of the Russian minister, one of the pillars of the Government of Vladimir Putin, is already representative of the thaw between the two countries. The last official trip of Lavrov took place in March of 2014, in full tension by the crisis of the Ukraine. Although Spain has always advocated maintaining good relations with its main eastern neighbor, the Russian invasion of the Crimean peninsula cut off almost all communication routes between Moscow and the EU, including Spanish ones. The allegations of Russian interference in favor of the Catalan independence speech - in the media and social networks - accentuated the unrest.


At the moment there are no details about when that working group will be constituted, even less about the most delicate element: who will integrate it. Strengthening ties with Russia in an area in which distrust of Moscow reigns is controversial for a country belonging to NATO. It is likely that the National Intelligence Center has something to say. Also the ambassador who appointed the previous PP Government last March to combat hybrid threats and promote cybersecurity, Julia Alicia Olmo and Romero. Beyond the domestic sphere, the Spanish essay can collide with the anti-propaganda exercise that Brussels has been leading since 2015 to combat false news originating in Russia.


Lavrov, who also met with the King, has denied the intrusions of his country, but at the same time has extended his hand to discuss the problem. "There is no evidence of Russian interference in Catalonia, Montenegro or Macedonia, I have talked about this with the Minister, interference in third-country affairs is inadmissible, we have to talk about these concerns not in front of the microphones, but presenting real events. "he has defended.
Prime example of Russian propagandist at work. Pay attention everyone, this is important message from president Putin.
 

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